Boy I Don't Like the 'New' Start Menu


You can Pin any Folder or Program shortcut to the Start Menu
Just Right click it and choose Pin to Start Menu (Open-Shell)
You then can drag that item anywhere in the Start Menu.
 

My Computer

System One

  • OS
    Windows 11 Pro 64 bit 24H2
    Computer type
    PC/Desktop
    Manufacturer/Model
    Gigabyte Z390 UD
    CPU
    Intel Core i7 77000 3.60
    Motherboard
    Gigabyte Z390 UD
    Memory
    16 GB
    Graphics Card(s)
    nVidia GEForce RTX 2060 Super
    Sound Card
    onboard
    Monitor(s) Displays
    Two 27" Dell 4K monitors
    Screen Resolution
    3840 x 2160
    Hard Drives
    M.2 NVME SSD, 500 GB; Two 2TB Mechanical HDD's
    PSU
    850w PSU
    Case
    Cyberpower PC
    Cooling
    Water cooled
    Keyboard
    Backlit Cyberpower gamiong keyboard
    Mouse
    Backlit Cyberpower gaming mouse
    Internet Speed
    1 GB mbps
    Browser
    Brave
    Antivirus
    Windows Security
Spunk said:
You can Pin any Folder or Program shortcut to the Start Menu
Just Right click it and choose Pin to Start Menu (Open-Shell)
You then can drag that item anywhere in the Start Menu.
Click to expand...
Very strange behavior. I don't know how much of this is 24H2 and how much might be something on my own computer.

I was able to create folders with Open-Shell. I was also able to place things in them. I hunted down one of those folders and it was in C:\ProgramData\Microsoft\Windows\Start Menu\Programs\ along with some other Start Menu folders.

I uninstalled Open-Shell and went back to the Start Menu\Programs folder.

I can generally create folders there and sort programs within them. But it doesn't always work. For example, there's a folder there named Windows Accessories. It wasn't in the Start menu. So, I did a Pin to Start. It shows up in the Icons area on the Start menu. But it doesn't show up in All. No matter what I do.

All operations are followed by Restarting Explorer and/or Restarting the Computer when things don't work as expected.

As for Open-Shell, it seemed to grab a large number of items that were in folders and duplicate them outside of any folder. But I'm going to sort everything as neatly as I can in the Start Menu\Programs folder and then try re-installing it so that it's working from a better base.

Any pointers or experience suggestions on making this work are appreciated.
 

My Computer

System One

  • OS
    Windows 11 Pro 24H2
    Computer type
    Laptop
    Manufacturer/Model
    HP
    CPU
    Intel Ultra 7 155H
    Memory
    16gb
    Graphics Card(s)
    Intel Arc integrated
    Hard Drives
    SSD
After a little time in the C:\ProgramData\Microsoft\Windows\Start Menu\Programs\ folder organizing things, I see that it's only a small part of the convoluted Win 11 scheme.

For example, I had an Office XP folder with five entries and a Office 2007 folder with seven entries. I created a new folder under Start Menu\Programs and called it Office. I put the Office XP and Office 2007 folders in there. In the Start Menu\Programs I have the expected Office folder with two subfolders in it. But in the Start Menu itself, I have one folder named Office with twelve individual entries.

There are lots of programs that don't show up in Start Menu\Programs at all. But they that have a Folder entry like C:\Users\username\AppData\Local\Packages\AD2F1837.myHP_v10z8vjag6ke6\LocalCache\Roaming\Microsoft\Windows\Start Menu\Programs . Folders are empty but I assume they're part of some three step boogie using these app / package names to place them on the Start Menu.


My Kingdom for a scheme like we had in earlier versions... simple folders we could sort shortcuts into for the current User and All Users.
 
Last edited:

My Computer

System One

  • OS
    Windows 11 Pro 24H2
    Computer type
    Laptop
    Manufacturer/Model
    HP
    CPU
    Intel Ultra 7 155H
    Memory
    16gb
    Graphics Card(s)
    Intel Arc integrated
    Hard Drives
    SSD
Levitate11 said:
Very strange behavior. I don't know how much of this is 24H2 and how much might be something on my own computer.

I was able to create folders with Open-Shell. I was also able to place things in them. I hunted down one of those folders and it was in C:\ProgramData\Microsoft\Windows\Start Menu\Programs\ along with some other Start Menu folders.

I uninstalled Open-Shell and went back to the Start Menu\Programs folder.

I can generally create folders there and sort programs within them. But it doesn't always work. For example, there's a folder there named Windows Accessories. It wasn't in the Start menu. So, I did a Pin to Start. It shows up in the Icons area on the Start menu. But it doesn't show up in All. No matter what I do.

All operations are followed by Restarting Explorer and/or Restarting the Computer when things don't work as expected.

As for Open-Shell, it seemed to grab a large number of items that were in folders and duplicate them outside of any folder. But I'm going to sort everything as neatly as I can in the Start Menu\Programs folder and then try re-installing it so that it's working from a better base.

Any pointers or experience suggestions on making this work are appreciated.
Click to expand...
Items that are pinned with "Pin to Start menu (Open-Shell)" appear in the %AppData%\OpenShell\Pinned folder. This uses a mechanism that is separate from the items that are pinned with "Pin to Start". If you pinned a folder by using the former method (i.e. to create a sub-menu), you can double-click on that folder in the main menu (or left column if you have enabled the two-columns menu style). Doing this will open the folder in File Explorer. The latter method is the one that already exists in Windows by default, i.e. without installing Open-Shell.

%ProgramData%\Microsoft\Windows\Start Menu and %AppData%\Microsoft\Windows\Start Menu (and the Programs subfolder in them) are not what you want if your goal is to put items in a custom order. If you have a lot of items that you want to rearrange, dragging and dropping them is tedious, though. But it's possible to write a simple PowerShell script that adds the items in the order you want. E.g. this can be done by letting the script create the shortcuts and/or subfolders with two digits added to the start of their name temporarily to make their alphabetical sort order temporarily match the custom order you want. That is, such a way that, once Open-Shell has captured the order, the script removes these temporary digits by renaming the items.

EDIT: Well, actually you CAN rearrange the items in the All programs sub-menu by dragging and dropping them.
 
Last edited:

My Computers

System One System Two

  • OS
    11 Home
    Computer type
    Laptop
    Manufacturer/Model
    Asus TUF Gaming F16 (2024)
    CPU
    i7 13650HX
    Memory
    16GB DDR5
    Graphics Card(s)
    GeForce RTX 4060 Mobile
    Sound Card
    Eastern Electric MiniMax DAC Supreme; Emotiva UMC-200; Astell & Kern AK240
    Monitor(s) Displays
    Sony Bravia XR-55X90J
    Screen Resolution
    3840×2160
    Hard Drives
    512GB SSD internal
    37TB external
    PSU
    Li-ion
    Cooling
    2× Arc Flow Fans, 4× exhaust vents, 5× heatpipes
    Keyboard
    Logitech K800
    Mouse
    Logitech G402
    Internet Speed
    20Mbit/s up, 250Mbit/s down
    Browser
    FF
  • Operating System
    11 Home
    Computer type
    Laptop
    Manufacturer/Model
    Medion S15450
    CPU
    i5 1135G7
    Memory
    16GB DDR4
    Graphics card(s)
    Intel Iris Xe
    Sound Card
    Eastern Electric MiniMax DAC Supreme; Emotiva UMC-200; Astell & Kern AK240
    Monitor(s) Displays
    Sony Bravia XR-55X90J
    Screen Resolution
    3840×2160
    Hard Drives
    2TB SSD internal
    37TB external
    PSU
    Li-ion
    Mouse
    Logitech G402
    Keyboard
    Logitech K800
    Internet Speed
    20Mbit/s up, 250Mbit/s down
    Browser
    FF

Will MS ever get the Start Menu Right?

MS's track record on Start menus is woeful. We has original menus in early versions that basically were not much more than a series of icons on a screen and most you could do was move them around a bit (jeepers - just realised we have gone full circle with W11 menu -LOL). Then things evolved...
www.elevenforum.com www.elevenforum.com
 

My Computers

System One System Two

  • OS
    Windows 11 Pro
    Computer type
    PC/Desktop
    Manufacturer/Model
    Stigg's Build
    CPU
    Intel Core i9-10900X
    Motherboard
    GIGABYTE X299X DESIGNARE 10G
    Memory
    Corsair 64 GB (4 x 16 GB) CMW64GX4M4C3000C15 Vengeance RGB Pro 3000Mhz DDR4
    Graphics Card(s)
    GIGABYTE GeForce GTX 1660 Super Mini ITX 6 GB OC
    Sound Card
    Realtek ALC1220
    Monitor(s) Displays
    Samsung 27" FHD LED FreeSync Gaming Monitor (LS27F350FHEXXY)
    Screen Resolution
    1920 x 1080
    Hard Drives
    Samsung 970 Pro Series 1TB M.2 2280 NVMe SSD
    Western Digital Red Pro WD8003FFBX-68B9AN0 8 TB, 7200 RPM, SATA-III
    Western Digital Red Pro WD8003FFBX-68B9AN0 8 TB, 7200 RPM, SATA-III
    PSU
    Corsair HX1200 1200W 80 Plus Platinum
    Case
    Fractal Design Define 7 Black Solid Case
    Cooling
    Noctua NH-D15 Chromax Black
    Keyboard
    Razer Ornata V2
    Mouse
    Razer DeathAdder Essential
    Internet Speed
    FTTN 100Mbps / 40Mbps
    Browser
    Mozilla Firefox
    Antivirus
    N/A
    Other Info
    Logitech BRIO 4k Ultra HD USB-C Webcam
  • Operating System
    Windows 10 Pro
    Computer type
    Laptop
    Manufacturer/Model
    ASUS ROG Zephyrus M GM501GS
    CPU
    Core i7-8750H
    Motherboard
    Zephyrus M GM501GS
    Memory
    SK Hynix 32 GB (2 x 16 GB) HMA82GS6CJR8N-VK 16 GB DDR4-2666 DDR4 SDRAM
    Graphics card(s)
    NVIDIA GeForce GTX 1070
    Sound Card
    Realtek ALC294
    Monitor(s) Displays
    AU Optronics B156HAN07.1 [15.6" LCD]
    Screen Resolution
    1920 x 1080
    Hard Drives
    Samsung MZVKW512HMJP-00000 512 GB, PCI-E 3.0 x4
    Samsung SSD 860 QVO 4TB 4 TB, SATA-III
    PSU
    N/A
    Case
    N/A
    Cooling
    N/A
    Mouse
    Razer DeathAdder Essential
    Keyboard
    PC/AT Enhanced PS2 Keyboard (101/102-Key)
    Internet Speed
    FTTN 100Mbps / 40Mbps
    Browser
    Mozilla Firefox
    Antivirus
    N/A
    Other Info
    USB2.0 HD UVC Webcam
hdmi said:
Items that are pinned with "Pin to Start menu (Open-Shell)" appear in the %AppData%\OpenShell\Pinned folder. This uses a mechanism that is separate from the items that are pinned with "Pin to Start". If you pinned a folder by using the former method (i.e. to create a sub-menu), you can double-click on that folder in the main menu (or left column if you have enabled the two-columns menu style). Doing this will open the folder in File Explorer.
Click to expand...


hdmi said:
The latter method is the one that already exists in Windows by default, i.e. without installing Open-Shell.
Click to expand...

Does this statement apply only to double clicking, or does it apply to suggest I can have sub-folders (not pinned folders) in the stock Win 11 Start menu with items in them? I see that Program Installations did that, but I don't see how to re-create it aside from manipulating what's in Start Menu\Programs

hdmi said:
%ProgramData%\Microsoft\Windows\Start Menu and %AppData%\Microsoft\Windows\Start Menu (and the Programs subfolder in them) are not what you want if your goal is to put items in a custom order. If you have a lot of items that you want to rearrange, dragging and dropping them is tedious, though. But it's possible to write a simple PowerShell script that adds the items in the order you want. E.g. this can be done by letting the script create the shortcuts and/or subfolders with two digits added to the start of their name temporarily to make their alphabetical sort order temporarily match the custom order you want. That is, such a way that, once Open-Shell has captured the order, the script removes these temporary digits by renaming the items.
Click to expand...

hdmi said:
EDIT: Well, actually you CAN rearrange the items in the All programs sub-menu by dragging and dropping them.
Click to expand...

Is the rearrange by dragging and dropping supposed to be available in the stock Win 11 "All" menu? I can't move anything in the stock All menu. I can't change the order and I can't move things into submenus that program installations have created.

I was able to do some of that work in the \Start Menu\Programs folder, but as noted in the previous post, there are some significant gotchas.

<>

How do the C:\Users\All Users\Start Menu\Programs and the same for the user play into this mess? It looks like the old Win 7 type configuration, but it doesn't feel like it :-)
 

My Computer

System One

  • OS
    Windows 11 Pro 24H2
    Computer type
    Laptop
    Manufacturer/Model
    HP
    CPU
    Intel Ultra 7 155H
    Memory
    16gb
    Graphics Card(s)
    Intel Arc integrated
    Hard Drives
    SSD
Levitate11 said:
Does this statement apply only to double clicking, or does it apply to suggest I can have sub-folders (not pinned folders) in the stock Win 11 Start menu with items in them? I see that Program Installations did that, but I don't see how to re-create it aside from manipulating what's in Start Menu\Programs
Click to expand...
Sorry, I should have explained more clearly. By "latter method", I meant "Pin to Start". By "former method", I meant "Pin to Start menu (Open-Shell)".
Levitate11 said:
Is the rearrange by dragging and dropping supposed to be available in the stock Win 11 "All" menu?
Click to expand...
AFAIK it just keeps showing the "prohibited" sign:
prohibited sign.webp
Levitate11 said:
I can't move anything in the stock All menu. I can't change the order and I can't move things into submenus that program installations have created.

I was able to do some of that work in the \Start Menu\Programs folder, but as noted in the previous post, there are some significant gotchas.

<>

How do the C:\Users\All Users\Start Menu\Programs and the same for the user play into this mess? It looks like the old Win 7 type configuration, but it doesn't feel like it :-)
Click to expand...
😏

Image-of-Origin-of-the-Windows-11-Meme.png
 

My Computers

System One System Two

  • OS
    11 Home
    Computer type
    Laptop
    Manufacturer/Model
    Asus TUF Gaming F16 (2024)
    CPU
    i7 13650HX
    Memory
    16GB DDR5
    Graphics Card(s)
    GeForce RTX 4060 Mobile
    Sound Card
    Eastern Electric MiniMax DAC Supreme; Emotiva UMC-200; Astell & Kern AK240
    Monitor(s) Displays
    Sony Bravia XR-55X90J
    Screen Resolution
    3840×2160
    Hard Drives
    512GB SSD internal
    37TB external
    PSU
    Li-ion
    Cooling
    2× Arc Flow Fans, 4× exhaust vents, 5× heatpipes
    Keyboard
    Logitech K800
    Mouse
    Logitech G402
    Internet Speed
    20Mbit/s up, 250Mbit/s down
    Browser
    FF
  • Operating System
    11 Home
    Computer type
    Laptop
    Manufacturer/Model
    Medion S15450
    CPU
    i5 1135G7
    Memory
    16GB DDR4
    Graphics card(s)
    Intel Iris Xe
    Sound Card
    Eastern Electric MiniMax DAC Supreme; Emotiva UMC-200; Astell & Kern AK240
    Monitor(s) Displays
    Sony Bravia XR-55X90J
    Screen Resolution
    3840×2160
    Hard Drives
    2TB SSD internal
    37TB external
    PSU
    Li-ion
    Mouse
    Logitech G402
    Keyboard
    Logitech K800
    Internet Speed
    20Mbit/s up, 250Mbit/s down
    Browser
    FF
Odd. I am on build 26100.4351 and I am not seeing this behaviour. Usually if a computer is going to screw up and do stupid stuff for no reason, it will be mine.

Maybe I have to wait for another update before I can complain. Right now, my start menu looks like it always did. But I definitely agree that they new menu looks and sounds horrible to use. I am not looking forward to it.
 

My Computer

System One

  • OS
    Win 11 Pro 24H2
    Computer type
    PC/Desktop
    Manufacturer/Model
    Self build
    CPU
    Intel i7 13700KF
    Motherboard
    Gigabyte Z790 UD AC
    Memory
    32 GB Team Group DDR5 - 6000 CL 30
    Graphics Card(s)
    ASUS TUF GAMING RTX 3070 Ti
    Sound Card
    On board Realtek
    Monitor(s) Displays
    ACER 34 inch
    Screen Resolution
    4K
    Hard Drives
    1 TB Samsung 980 Pro Nvme, 1 TB Samsung 970 EVO Nvme, 2 x Samsung 970 2TB SSD SATA
    PSU
    EVGA 1000Q
    Case
    Rosewill something or other
    Cooling
    Noctua NH-D15. A whole schwak of Noctua case fans. $$$
    Keyboard
    Logitech G815
    Mouse
    Logitech G502 Hero
    Internet Speed
    700 up, 600 down
    Browser
    Firefox
    Antivirus
    MalwareBytes
9418.webp
 

My Computers

System One System Two

  • OS
    Windows 11
    Computer type
    PC/Desktop
    Manufacturer/Model
    ASUS ROG Strix
  • Operating System
    Windows 11
    Computer type
    Laptop
    Manufacturer/Model
    ASUS VivoBook
Catnip said:
Odd. I am on build 26100.4351 and I am not seeing this behaviour ..... Right now, my start menu looks like it always did.
Click to expand...
It's not odd. Your 26100.4351 is the latest build in the General Availability Channel, the public RTM release.

The new Start menu hasn't made its way out or the Insider Channels yet. I have it in the latest Insider Beta and Dev builds, 26120.4452 and 26200.5661.
 

My Computers

System One System Two

  • OS
    Windows 11 Home
    Computer type
    Laptop
    Manufacturer/Model
    Acer Aspire 3 A315-23
    CPU
    AMD Athlon Silver 3050U
    Memory
    8GB
    Graphics Card(s)
    Radeon Graphics
    Monitor(s) Displays
    laptop screen
    Screen Resolution
    1366x768 native resolution, up to 2560x1440 with Radeon Virtual Super Resolution
    Hard Drives
    1TB Samsung EVO 870 SSD
    Internet Speed
    150 Mbps
    Browser
    Edge, Firefox
    Antivirus
    Defender
    Other Info
    fully 'Windows 11 ready' laptop. Windows 10 C: partition migrated from my old unsupported 'main machine' then upgraded to 11. A test migration ran Insider builds for 2 months. When 11 was released on 5th October 2021 it was re-imaged back to 10 and was offered the upgrade in Windows Update on 20th October. Windows Update offered the 22H2 Feature Update on 20th September 2022. It got the 23H2 Feature Update on 4th November 2023 through Windows Update, and 24H2 on 3rd October 2024 through Windows Update by setting the Target Release Version for 24H2.

    My SYSTEM THREE is a Dell Latitude 5410, i7-10610U, 32GB RAM, 512GB NVMe ssd, supported device running Windows 11 Pro.

    My SYSTEM FOUR is a 2-in-1 convertible Lenovo Yoga 11e 20DA, Celeron N2930, 8GB RAM, 256GB ssd. Unsupported device: currently running Win10 Pro, plus Win11 Pro RTM and Insider Dev, Beta, and RP 24H2 as native boot vhdx.

    My SYSTEM FIVE is a Dell Latitude 3190 2-in-1, Pentium Silver N5030, 8GB RAM, 512GB NVMe ssd, supported device running Windows 11 Pro, plus Insider Beta, Dev, and Canary builds (and a few others) as a native boot .vhdx.

    My SYSTEM SIX is a Dell Latitude 5550, Core Ultra 7 165H, 64GB RAM, 1TB NVMe SSD, supported device, Windows 11 Pro 24H2, Hyper-V host machine.
  • Operating System
    Windows 11 Pro
    Computer type
    Laptop
    Manufacturer/Model
    Dell Latitude E4310
    CPU
    Intel® Core™ i5-520M
    Motherboard
    0T6M8G
    Memory
    8GB
    Graphics card(s)
    (integrated graphics) Intel HD Graphics
    Screen Resolution
    1366x768
    Hard Drives
    500GB Crucial MX500 SSD
    Browser
    Firefox, Edge
    Antivirus
    Defender
    Other Info
    unsupported machine: Legacy bios, MBR, TPM 1.2, upgraded from W10 to W11 using W10/W11 hybrid install media workaround. In-place upgrade to 22H2 using ISO and a workaround. Feature Update to 23H2 by manually installing the Enablement Package. In-place upgrade to 24H2 using hybrid 23H2/24H2 install media. Also running Insider Beta, Dev, and Canary builds as a native boot .vhdx.

    My SYSTEM THREE is a Dell Latitude 5410, i7-10610U, 32GB RAM, 512GB NVMe ssd, supported device running Windows 11 Pro.

    My SYSTEM FOUR is a 2-in-1 convertible Lenovo Yoga 11e 20DA, Celeron N2930, 8GB RAM, 256GB ssd. Unsupported device: currently running Win10 Pro, plus Win11 Pro RTM and Insider Dev, Beta, and RP 24H2 as native boot vhdx.

    My SYSTEM FIVE is a Dell Latitude 3190 2-in-1, Pentium Silver N5030, 8GB RAM, 512GB NVMe ssd, supported device running Windows 11 Pro, plus Insider Beta, Dev, and Canary builds (and a few others) as a native boot .vhdx.

    My SYSTEM SIX is a Dell Latitude 5550, Core Ultra 7 165H, 64GB RAM, 1TB NVMe SSD, supported device, Windows 11 Pro 24H2, Hyper-V host machine.

My Computers

System One System Two

  • OS
    11 Home
    Computer type
    Laptop
    Manufacturer/Model
    Asus TUF Gaming F16 (2024)
    CPU
    i7 13650HX
    Memory
    16GB DDR5
    Graphics Card(s)
    GeForce RTX 4060 Mobile
    Sound Card
    Eastern Electric MiniMax DAC Supreme; Emotiva UMC-200; Astell & Kern AK240
    Monitor(s) Displays
    Sony Bravia XR-55X90J
    Screen Resolution
    3840×2160
    Hard Drives
    512GB SSD internal
    37TB external
    PSU
    Li-ion
    Cooling
    2× Arc Flow Fans, 4× exhaust vents, 5× heatpipes
    Keyboard
    Logitech K800
    Mouse
    Logitech G402
    Internet Speed
    20Mbit/s up, 250Mbit/s down
    Browser
    FF
  • Operating System
    11 Home
    Computer type
    Laptop
    Manufacturer/Model
    Medion S15450
    CPU
    i5 1135G7
    Memory
    16GB DDR4
    Graphics card(s)
    Intel Iris Xe
    Sound Card
    Eastern Electric MiniMax DAC Supreme; Emotiva UMC-200; Astell & Kern AK240
    Monitor(s) Displays
    Sony Bravia XR-55X90J
    Screen Resolution
    3840×2160
    Hard Drives
    2TB SSD internal
    37TB external
    PSU
    Li-ion
    Mouse
    Logitech G402
    Keyboard
    Logitech K800
    Internet Speed
    20Mbit/s up, 250Mbit/s down
    Browser
    FF
You must log in or register to reply here.

Similar threads

how to restore Windows 10 context menu? I don't like clicking show more options
Replies
2
Views
25K
Ghot
Ghot

Latest Support Threads

Latest Tutorials

Back
Top Bottom