Can you clean install on copilot+ laptops?

I decided I needed a new laptop, seeing as I now only have one Heath Robinson working laptop and no fully working spare any more (I have a netbook and the 11" Lenovo pentium but not powerful enough for a main laptop).

My priority is NOT having a very large touchpad - because it pushes the keyboard further back and that doesn't work for me ergonomically. Plus I just don't need a giant touchpad.

They all have enormous touchpads. But after squinting at umpteen photos and reviews, the HP Omnibook 7 aero 13 touchpad looks a bit smaller than the rest. So I decided to buy that and sent for it for about £850 for the AMD 7 one.

A 13.3" 16:10 is about the nearest equivalent to my 14" 16:9 - the distance from the edge of the laptop to the bottom edge of the space bar is virtually the same - just 2mm difference - so that works.

I have 30 days to return in as new condition. Only had a quick look and tried out the keyboard, and the ergonomics are fine-ish. The keyboard isn't as good as my current one but it's ok-ish. I would rather have 16:9 though - with 16:10, you might get more screen but it makes the laptop deeper - hence the giant touchpads I guess - not quite as comfortable.

I was in two minds about it as it's a different kind of thing altogether. And to be honest it feels like a toy! It is also full of masses of HP AI stuff (which I've googled and some is hard to get rid of).

As I wasn't sure I did some more searching but there is nothing else that doesn't have a keyboard pushed further back. A desktop set up would probably last a lot longer but that won't work for me - I don't want to be tied to one room and don't have the space for it.

I do prefer 16:9 for the dimensions/depth of a 14" laptop. So tried googling those, and there are virtually none now. But I did look at the Dell Precision 3490 - I was umming about that - I don't need nvidia graphics and it's a lot more expensive. And the touch pad, while not the largest is still larger and so the keyboard a bit further back.

I had half decided to keep the Omnibook 13, accepting it wasn't really a replacement for my more sturdy 14" laptop and was a different thing altogether.

Then I can't remember what I was googling but suddenly a link for Currys came up with an HP 14s. 16:9 with a small touchpad! And only £500. It's the cheaper equivalent of my current pavilion 14. As in cheaper build quality, but the processor is better. It's fine for what I need anyway. I thought I was seeing things - those haven't been sold for a couple of years now - it must be old stock. It's definitely being sold as a new laptop.

Honestly can't believe my luck finding a 16:9 14" inch laptop with a small touchpad. (And HP keyboards invariably work for me). So I've sent for that. And now I want to keep both lol.

Anyway - to go back to the question. If I do keep the omnibook I would be inclined to clean install windows on it (after backing up drivers and doing an image), because from what I've seen, some of the HP AI stuff installed is very hard to get rid of.

So as it has this NPU what happens if you do a clean install of Windows? Does the NPU just sit there not being used if you don't have the AI stuff installed? Would the machine actually work properly?

Maybe take a look at HP ProBooks. For about $600 you can get one with a core i7 and 16GB RAM. If you go with one that's 15" or larger, it has 2 slots for nVME drives. I like them because the ones without discrete graphics can actually be used to play games (at lower graphics settings of course) without getting too hot to keep on your lap. Dell Precision laptops are an example of you get what you pay for. They're designed to be run at 100% capacity without overheating. I can run stable diffusion all day long on mine without it ever getting too hot.

Hazel123 said:

I would be inclined to clean install windows on it (after backing up drivers and doing an image), because from what I've seen, some of the HP AI stuff installed is very hard to get rid of.

So as it has this NPU what happens if you do a clean install of Windows? Does the NPU just sit there not being used if you don't have the AI stuff installed? Would the machine actually work properly?

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I clean installed on my System Six which has an NPU. It's an 11MIPS NPU, making this an AI PC, but not a full Copilot+ PC.

AI functions are enabled automatically if you clean install, such as Studio Effects.

DJNelson said:

Maybe take a look at HP ProBooks. For about $600 you can get one with a core i7 and 16GB RAM. If you go with one that's 15" or larger, it has 2 slots for nVME drives. I like them because the ones without discrete graphics can actually be used to play games (at lower graphics settings of course) without getting too hot to keep on your lap. Dell Precision laptops are an example of you get what you pay for. They're designed to be run at 100% capacity without overheating. I can run stable diffusion all day long on mine without it ever getting too hot.

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Yes I probably should have gone for something like the Dell Precision - the lighter weight one. The other model was about £2,500. But I don't need nvidia graphics and always worry nvidea will stop making drivers for them after about 5 years.

I did look at HP probooks and liked that idea too, but they have bigger touchpads now.

The basic 14s I've just sent for, for £500, does have a Core i7 12th generation processor. It only has 8gb ram - BUT it has upgradeable ram and will take up the 32gb ram - just like my existing 14" model. It's the build quality that is pretty basic.

Bree said:

I clean installed on my System Six which has an NPU. It's an 11MIPS NPU, making this an AI PC, but not a full Copilot+ PC.

AI functions are enabled automatically if you clean install, such as Studio Effects.

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I didn't quite understand that So are you saying that even after a clean install, some settings are still there and turned on? But presumably don't actually work?

Just checking the usb ports on the Omnibook - one of them seems a bit too tight to actually fit a usb stick into.

Hazel123 said:

So are you saying that even after a clean install, some settings are still there and turned on? But presumably don't actually work?

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No, I'm saying that if you have an NPU you will have these AI functions working and available to use. I've used Studio Effects for my camera on a Teams meeting, for example.

Incidentally the Omnibook at factory settings has 71gb of used space already. As windows is presumably no more than 40gb, that seems to be a lot of stuff installed.

Bree said:

No, I'm saying that if you have an NPU you will have these AI functions working and available to use. I've used Studio Effects for my camera on a Teams meeting, for example.

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Ok thank you. But I can turn them off presumably? I just don't like the idea of all these programs sending info back to HP or running in the background.

Hazel123 said:

But I can turn them off presumably? I just don't like the idea of all these programs sending info back to HP or running in the background.

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Yes, you can turn them off. Windows Studio Effects runs locally on the NPU, nothing is 'sent back' anywhere.

Thank you. So that is inbuilt into the laptop then and part of Windows via the processor - is that right? Unlike the apps and programs installed by HP (which are removable). Some may be useful but a couple are supposed to be resource hogs and a sort of telemetry.

Apparently you can install the chat gpt app and then customise the copilot key to launch chat gpt. Which I guess is just a short cut really.

System information shows only 8.2GB ram available of 16GB. Task manager only shows 700mb approx hardware reserved. This is at idle. What could be using half the ram?

Looks like that device has shared memory. The GPU is likely using that much RAM.

Thank you. Is there anywhere I could check that? Under hardware reserved it just says about 760mb

So essentially it's an 8GB ram laptop then?

I’d feel better if someone else confirmed, but that’s how it looks in the specs.

Google AI: "Shared Memory: Unlike a discrete graphics card with its own dedicated video RAM (VRAM), the Radeon 860M pulls graphics memory from the system's overall RAM."

Radeon 860M is the integrated graphics in this machine.

Just checked the old laptop I'm on at the moment which has 16gb ram and that says 4.24GB available! So maybe this is usual?

Bree said:

Yes, you can turn them off. Windows Studio Effects runs locally on the NPU, nothing is 'sent back' anywhere.

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I see what you mean now - there are a couple of Windows elements with their own drivers in device manager - Windows Studio effects and Windows camera effects. So presumably part of Windows if there's an NPU (not HP software - it's some of the HP software I was thinking I'd rather not have).

However there may be some HP elements baked in as well - under software components are HP Application enabling services and HP device health service. I assume those would still be there after a clean install and maybe relate to the AI components as well?

All a bit hypothetical at the moment as I just want to understand it and not sure if I'm keeping it. Unfortunately the 32gb ram model doesn't seem to be available in the Uk. 16gb sounded ok - but now I'm not so sure - especially for futureproofing if it's not upgradeable and 16gb is the minimum needed for a copilot+ pc.

The much cheaper 14s (all plastic) has upgradeable ram and takes the same ram as my two redundant pavilions - which both have 16gb and the 14s has two ram slots so I can upgrade that to 32gb for free

I've only ever used Intel before so I realise that integrated graphics share the ram but as the AMD element is new it sounded like rather a lot of ram sharing when the computer was idle. It's not connected to the internet and couldn't see much in the way of processes running - although I'm sure there were some.

So that's my last thought. Maybe 16gb ram would be plenty after a potential clean install if less unneeded applications installed? Very annoying the 32gb ram version is only available in the US and not the Uk!

Anyway I think this is essentially a netbook for the future. Not enough ram to futureproof it perhaps, other than light tasks, and it doesn't have wifi 7.

It's been driving me a bit crazy not having my laptop to use! All my documents (aka brain) are on an external hard drive. So trying to get another working computer to buy to have them all to hand again. Not something to do in a hurry. But the Omnibook 7 aero 13 isn't for me. Can't get on with the 16:10 format and smaller screen size. I think I need new glasses. As I can't find anything I like easily (and I'm fussy about all sorts), I've bought another used identical model to my old laptop - just to get up and running. And take more time to decide about a new one.