Cloning System Partition, Recreating EFI and Recovery partitions...

blasirl · Feb 6, 2022

TheMystic said:
I don't think it is a good idea to boot from an external disk that is connected via a docking station. Try connecting the disk directly to the usb port on the laptop. Not all ports support booting. In my laptop, I have 4 usb ports, but I can only boot from 2 of them. So you have to identify which usb ports on your system support booting. But before that, you have to set your USB 3.0 ports to AUTO mode in BIOS or boot from the USB 2.0 port.

I am not sure why I should boot from my external drive. Is this a way to test it? And at this point it is not being recognized. I will though try to move it from the docking station to the computer. I wiil let you know if that helps in a few minutes.

blasirl · Feb 6, 2022

@TheMystic

Wonderful. that worked. I am finally back to my original issue. How do I get this drive to boot, again, my plan is to swap them, but if you feel I should try to boot from an external first, I will try that.

blasirl · Feb 6, 2022

TheMystic said:
I don't think it is a good idea to boot from an external disk that is connected via a docking station. Try connecting the disk directly to the usb port on the laptop.

Excellent advice. Worked.

TheMystic said:
So you have to identify which usb ports on your system support booting. But before that, you have to set your USB 3.0 ports to AUTO mode in BIOS or boot from the USB 2.0 port.

Is there a tutorial or other threads that explain how to do this? I will look while I wait for your reply.

EDIT:
I found these article outside of the forum and will try them:

How to Access BIOS on an HP Laptop

itstillworks.com

How to Tell if Your Computer Is Bootable With USB

Universal serial bus flash drives and external drives work like CDs and DVDs. They are also convenient to use -- but not all motherboards support bootable USB devices. Modern computers can boot from hard drives, disc drives, network drives and USB drives, but PCs created before the development...

itstillworks.com

If needed ...

How to Force Windows to Boot on a USB Drive on Reboot

When your Windows installation is corrupt or you wish to install the operating system without a disc, a bootable USB drive is a useful tool. A bootable USB allows users to boot Windows directly from the device. But before that can happen, you'll need to tinker with your machine's BIOS settings.

itstillworks.com

blasirl · Feb 6, 2022

NavyLCDR said:
@blasirl,

Unhook all USB drives and remove all Micro SD cards. Restart the computer. Open a command prompt with admin privileges and run:
diskpart
automount scrub
exit
exit

Then reconnect your external USB drive and see if you can access it.

I am pretty sure this also helped me along as well. Thanks for that.

blasirl · Feb 6, 2022

OK, so I have been able to change the boot order as shown in the first graphic. I only have one USB-A port and the USB-C I use to connect to my dock so can I assume they are both bootable?.

I can now see the recovery drive as well, but I do not think it booted from the D: drive although I am not sure how to verify that. When I loaded these pictures though, it looked like it booted from C: drive

TheMystic · Feb 7, 2022

blasirl said:
I am not sure why I should boot from my external drive.

I thought that's what you were trying to do when you said that your system can't see the (operating system on the) external disk.

blasirl said:
if you feel I should try to boot from an external first, I will try that.

Since laptops today are increasingly difficult to open, it is a good idea to test if the cloned disk is booting properly before swapping it internally.

That said, it is possible that disk may not boot via USB but will boot fine when installed internally.

blasirl said:
I only have one USB-A port and the USB-C I use to connect to my dock so can I assume they are both bootable?

My guess is that your USB A port should be USB 3.x. They should both be bootable. But the problem with USB 3.x port when using for booting purpose is that the system may not see the OS unless you change the setting in BIOS to AUTO (and not ENABLED). If the USB port is 2.0, then no change in setting is required.

blasirl said:
I can now see the recovery drive as well, but I do not think it booted from the D: drive although I am not sure how to verify that. When I loaded these pictures though, it looked like it booted from C: drive

Based on what you have written, there could be multiple reasons why you are unable to boot from it:

1. EFI partition is not configured correctly. If that is the case, you can format it and reconfigure it as mentioned in the OP.

2. Your clone could have some errors. If nothing works, you should try cloning it again. I would use the method I have described in the OP, but if you are okay with using 3rd party tools, then do it using AOMEI Backupper (or AOMEI Partition Assistant) or Macrium Reflect.

As a general advice, it is best to keep the C: drive exclusively for the OS and programs. Keep all your personal files in a separate partition (in the same disk) or separate disk. This is not only an excellent way to keep your data safe, but also helps when backing up or cloning the system because it makes everything much faster as the system partition (or drive) is much smaller in size.

jimbo45 · Feb 7, 2022

cereberus said:
Frankly, who in their right mind would clone like this!

It is far easier and quicker to install Macrium Reflect Free or similar and clone using that, with very little user knowledge needed.

Also, I hate it when people say a clean install is the best. "Best" is a very subjective term.

It is funny when people say that, they neglect to tell people they need to make sure they have all installation keys for software available. I have lost count of number of times people find they cannot reactivate say Office after a clean install!

In my opinion, a clean install is a last resort.

Very true -- especially as often a "Clean install" won't install some drivers which worked perfectly on W10 and you have to doo all sorts of fiddles to get them loaded, whereas an upgrade / update will usually keep existing drivers where new W11 ones aren't yet available.

Clean install is fine if you want to play around with VM's or do other sorts of testing. If you have some really old software and don't have the installation media / serial numbers and the company has long sinced ceased trading then you are hosed if you want to do a brand new install.

Cheers
jimbo

blasirl · Feb 7, 2022

TheMystic said:
I thought that's what you were trying to do when you said that your system can't see the (operating system on the) external disk.

Since laptops today are increasingly difficult to open, it is a good idea to test if the cloned disk is booting properly before swapping it internally.

That said, it is possible that disk may not boot via USB but will boot fine when installed internally.

My guess is that your USB A port should be USB 3.x. They should both be bootable. But the problem with USB 3.x port when using for booting purpose is that the system may not see the OS unless you change the setting in BIOS to AUTO (and not ENABLED). If the USB port is 2.0, then no change in setting is required.

Based on what you have written, there could be multiple reasons why you are unable to boot from it:

1. EFI partition is not configured correctly. If that is the case, you can format it and reconfigure it as mentioned in the OP.

2. Your clone could have some errors. If nothing works, you should try cloning it again. I would use the method I have described in the OP, but if you are okay with using 3rd party tools, then do it using AOMEI Backupper (or AOMEI Partition Assistant) or Macrium Reflect.

As a general advice, it is best to keep the C: drive exclusively for the OS and programs. Keep all your personal files in a separate partition (in the same disk) or separate disk. This is not only an excellent way to keep your data safe, but also helps when backing up or cloning the system because it makes everything much faster as the system partition (or drive) is much smaller in size.

I may have not been clear, but after I cloned the drive, I swapped them and discovered that it would not boot. Then all of the other issues started, so now I am back to a cloned unbootable drive. I also understand that I should have the system files separate, but I am still working toward that. Once I figure out the path to having the 2TB drive bootable and partitioned I wanted to also create a partition on the 500GB drive to use that as a long term storage device.

Having said all of this, isn't there a way to extract the Key for my OEM Windows 10 upgraded to 11 files? It sure would be much easier to install the new SSD and load windows and then just transfer my files?

blasirl · Feb 7, 2022

Before I start to re-clone the drive, I will try setting the UEFI USB boot to Auto and try booting from it again.

NavyLCDR · Feb 7, 2022

blasirl said:
Having said all of this, isn't there a way to extract the Key for my OEM Windows 10 upgraded to 11 files? It sure would be much easier to install the new SSD and load windows and then just transfer my files?

Showkey Plus:

ShowKeyPlus - Windows 10 Help Forums

I have converted the vbs to .Net for speed and backward compatibility with Win 8.0. Should be fine on WTP, but please report any bugs (This is a quite

www.tenforums.com

blasirl · Feb 7, 2022

NavyLCDR said:
Showkey Plus:

ShowKeyPlus - Windows 10 Help Forums

I have converted the vbs to .Net for speed and backward compatibility with Win 8.0. Should be fine on WTP, but please report any bugs (This is a quite

www.tenforums.com

That worked like a charm. I should have also asked this at the same time. Am I able to use any Windows 10 disks (or maybe a factory download) to load my SSD, assuming the same version etc?

NavyLCDR · Feb 7, 2022

blasirl said:
That worked like a charm. I should have also asked this at the same time. Am I able to use any Windows 10 disks (or maybe a factory download) to load my SSD, assuming the same version etc?

Yes. But the best way is to create an up-to-date USB flash drive with Microsoft's Media Creation Tool:

Download Windows 10

However, there is a glaring mistake on Microsoft's webpage. It states, "To get started, you will first need to have a licence to install Windows 10." First, they misspelled "license". Second, it is absolutely untrue that you first need a license. But you have a license, so that is a moot point.

Bree · Feb 7, 2022

NavyLCDR said:
However, there is a glaring mistake on Microsoft's webpage. It states, "To get started, you will first need to have a licence to install Windows 10." First, they misspelled "license".

No, it's spelt correctly - for the EN-CA link you gave. It's spelt 'licence' for EN-GB too. If you want to see it spelt as 'license' you need this EN-US link.

Download Windows 10

NavyLCDR · Feb 7, 2022

Bree said:
No, it's spelt correctly - for the EN-CA link you gave. It's spelt 'licence' for EN-GB too. If you want to see it spelt as 'license' you need this EN-US link.

Download Windows 10

OK, you got me on the spelling :) . However, that does not change the fact that no license or licence is required to download and install either Windows 10 or 11.

Bree · Feb 7, 2022

NavyLCDR said:
OK, you got me on the spelling :) . However, that does not change the fact that no license or licence is required to download and install either Windows 10 or 11.

That's true, but MS are never going to publicly state that you can still upgrade from Win7 to Win10 for free. The only public statement on the matter is that 'The Windows 10 free upgrade through the Get Windows 10 (GWX) app ended on July 29, 2016'.

TheMystic · Feb 8, 2022

blasirl said:
I may have not been clear, but after I cloned the drive, I swapped them and discovered that it would not boot. Then all of the other issues started, so now I am back to a cloned unbootable drive. I also understand that I should have the system files separate, but I am still working toward that. Once I figure out the path to having the 2TB drive bootable and partitioned I wanted to also create a partition on the 500GB drive to use that as a long term storage device.

Having said all of this, isn't there a way to extract the Key for my OEM Windows 10 upgraded to 11 files? It sure would be much easier to install the new SSD and load windows and then just transfer my files?

Your Windows license is tied to your motherboard, so the license will automatically be detected when you install Windows on your new SSD.

Here's what I would do if I was in your place:

1. Format my new SSD.
2. Convert it to GPT (if not already partitioned as GPT).
3. Create atleast 2 partitions. For my use, 120 GB is more than enough for Windows and all installed programs. You can allocate more space if your usage requires it.
4. If I have a spare disk, I will COPY (not cut) all my personal files to a folder in that disk. If no spare disk is available, I will COPY (not cut) all my personal files from the old disk to the 2nd partition on the new disk.
5. Once all files are copied, I will delete them from the source (old) disk.
6. Now my source disk will only have the OS and installed programs (along with their license keys). The size will be much smaller, making the backing up or cloning process significantly faster and more efficient.
7. I will now clone the disk. I will use the method described in the OP. You can use 3rd party apps if you want.
8. Once cloning process is complete, I would connect the new SSD via USB to check if it boots. If it boots fine, great. If not, I will format the EFI partition and copy the boot files to it again. The process is covered in the OP.

If it still doesn't boot, I will try installing it inside the laptop and try booting it. If it refuses to boot, I will consider doing a fresh installation of Windows. As far as license keys of programs are concerned, I will try getting a replacement one from the developer.

What I will never do is giving remote access to my system to an online 'specialist'.

NavyLCDR · Feb 8, 2022

TheMystic said:
Your Windows license is tied to your motherboard, so the license will automatically be detected when you install Windows on your new SSD.

Here's what I would do if I was in your place:

1. Format my new SSD.

Just a note, you can't format a new SSD. You can only format partitions after they are created on the SSD. If you attempt to format an SSD with no partitions on it you will get an error that no partition is selected.

TheMystic · Feb 8, 2022

NavyLCDR said:
Just a note, you can't format a new SSD. You can only format partitions after they are created on the SSD. If you attempt to format an SSD with no partitions on it you will get an error that no partition is selected.

When you connect a brand new disk to your computer, you will first have to set the partition type under Disk Management (File Explorer won't show the disk unless it is configured under Disk Management). Once that is done, there is no reason why you can't simply run the format command.

In this case, the cloning process has already been done, which means the partition type has also been set. That's why I said I will first format it and start afresh. I will also ensure that the partition type is set to GPT before proceeding further.

Winuser · Feb 8, 2022

NavyLCDR said:
Just a note, you can't format a new SSD. You can only format partitions after they are created on the SSD. If you attempt to format an SSD with no partitions on it you will get an error that no partition is selected.

As I recall when I replaced my SSD on my old desktop with a NVMe drive I only had to use my Macrium rescue disk to do an image retore to the new drive and set it in the BIOS as the boot drive. I don't remember if I had to use Disk Management to assign a drive letter to it first or not.

blasirl · Feb 8, 2022

TheMystic said:
Your Windows license is tied to your motherboard, so the license will automatically be detected when you install Windows on your new SSD.

That is good to know. Does that mean it is in the UEFI and not on the current SSD? To be clear, my laptop has only one bay.

TheMystic said:
1. Format my new SSD.

So for me I need to re-format.

TheMystic said:
3. Create atleast 2 partitions. For my use, 120 GB is more than enough for Windows and all installed programs. You can allocate more space if your usage requires it.

I was never sure if the operating system drive should also include other items like Office, WinAmp , VLC etc, so Thanks for that tidbit.

TheMystic said:
4. If I have a spare disk, I will COPY (not cut) all my personal files to a folder in that disk. If no spare disk is available, I will COPY (not cut) all my personal files from the old disk to the 2nd partition on the new disk.

Can you point (or re-point if I missed it) to the process of creating a partition on my Old (500) drive to do this?

TheMystic said:
5. Once all files are copied, I will delete them from the source (old) disk.
6. Now my source disk will only have the OS and installed programs (along with their license keys). The size will be much smaller, making the backing up or cloning process significantly faster and more efficient.

Will do. Makes sense.

TheMystic said:
7. I will now clone the disk. I will use the method described in the OP. You can use 3rd party apps if you want.

I understand why you suggest the OP method, but as you can tell here, I am a struggling Techie at this point. That method seems convoluted even if it is not in actuality. I am still undecided at this point between it and Macrium Reflect Free.

TheMystic said:
8. Once cloning process is complete, I would connect the new SSD via USB to check if it boots. If it boots fine, great. If not, I will format the EFI partition and copy the boot files to it again. The process is covered in the OP.

Funny thing is, after going through all of this up to this post, somehow the new drive (2000) went from not booting when installed, to not being recognized at all after returning it to the external case to actually booting via the USB. I did not catch it at first, but if you look at the picture at this post, and one I'll post here shortly it actually did boot - I think - we will see after I redo the boot sequence again.. If I was hallucinating, I will continue on from here ...

TheMystic said:
If it still doesn't boot, I will try installing it inside the laptop and try booting it. If it refuses to boot, I will consider doing a fresh installation of Windows. As far as license keys of programs are concerned, I will try getting a replacement one from the developer.

What I will never do is giving remote access to my system to an online 'specialist'.

... else I will open up the laptop again and reinstall the 2000 drive. Oh and I have also since named my drives so it is easier to tell them apart. What actually got me thinking about this was the small differences in bytes listed.

Crossing my fingers....

Thank you again