System Disable Modern Standby in Windows 10 and Windows 11

hdmi · Sep 10, 2022

Try3 said:
- If you are not using your computer but you leave it on then nothing on the computer interrupts you, S0 or not.

You can only pause it for up to 35 days on Windows 11. When the pause period is terminated either because the period expired after the period had been selected by the user or because the user has clicked on the Resume button, it force reboots after it automatically downloads and installs updates that require a reboot, at least if the system is left unattended until this finally happens. The option to "Schedule the Restart" does not appear until it requires the reboot to finalize the install of Windows updates having automatically been downloaded and installed by it. So, there is no immediate option to schedule such an automatic reboot until it might be already too late, e.g., if the user has already gone by the time when this option will appear.

Changing the Active Hours setting does nothing to prevent this, as you can't expect every user to always know in advance when might be a convenient time to let Windows automatically restart itself to finalize the install of Windows updates. You can set the connection to "metered connection" to prevent this specific type of interruptions, as Windows does not automatically download Windows updates over metered connections. However, AFAIK it is still possible for Windows to automatically override this restriction, so it can still nevertheless install (at least some of) critical updates when they are available to be downloaded and installed by Windows Update, albeit I haven't witnessed such an "emergency style" interruption myself yet. Either way, unless you completely disable Windows automatic updates altogether, there is no easy way to make it truly unobtrusive, so unsollicited interruptions might still occur, potentially also resulting in permanent loss of unsaved data.

Try3 · Sep 10, 2022

I do not know why you are discussing pausing updates.
The video claimed that S0 prevented WU from interrupting users.
But S0 makes no difference to the test conditions the video described [people leaving their computers on while they got on with smelling their roses].

hdmi said:
AFAIK it is still possible for Windows to automatically override this restriction

Yes, WU does this for the update that we've come to call PC Health Check [its KB number has changed].
This update is the only one that ever sneaks through my metered connections.
It's so minor & so infrequent that I don't bother taking any additional measures in an attempt to inhibit it.

All the best,
Denis

hdmi · Sep 10, 2022

Try3 said:
I do not know why you are discussing pausing updates.

It's because updates ARE interruptions, if they require a reboot. Because, an automatic reboot causes the user to be interrupted by it, when there is no available option to delay it before it happens (or when this option is presented to the user while the system is left unattended, which has the same effect of it automatically rebooting itself without the user's consent if the system continues to be left unattended until it happens). Consent is the prerequisite to not getting interrupted by it.

Try3 · Sep 10, 2022

But it has no bearing on the subject of the video.
S0 or no S0, the behaviour is the same.

All the best,
Denis

hdmi · Sep 10, 2022

Try3 said:
But it has no bearing on the subject of the video.
S0 or no S0, the behaviour is the same.

It can't interrupt me during S3 sleep, as it can neither automatically reboot nor ask me to reboot. Instead, it just sits there obediently waiting for me to wake it up with a mouseclick. During S0 (Low Power Idle) it can interrupt me by rebooting itself without my consent after which it starts to finalize the install of updates that can take a while to complete so it doesn't just interrupt me, it also hijacks my computer until it completes. Worse, all the windows that I had opened are now suddenly closed. Like a true burglar in the night, it closes them so the neighbors don't hear you scream.

Try3 · Sep 10, 2022

WU can run during S0.
WU can wake up the computer & run despite it being in S3.

So the claim that S0 avoids users being interrupted by WU remains misleading; in the test conditions described in the video,the user has left the computer, so there is no interruption [S0 or no S0].

Denis

hdmi · Sep 10, 2022

Try3 said:
WU can run during S0.

That in fact is why it can interrupt the user, like I already tried to explain.

Try3 said:
WU can wake up the computer & run despite it being in S3.

Yes, BUT... you can still choose to disable Wake Timers to prevent that from ever happening.

Try3 said:
So the claim that S0 avoids users being interrupted by WU remains misleading; in the test conditions described in the video,the user has left the computer, so there is no interruption [S0 or no S0].

No, the claim isn't misleading. Rather, it is blatantly incorrect, and, just because the user has left the system unattended, doesn't also mean that the user can no longer be interrupted, as an unwanted automatic reboot still qualifies as an interruption e.g. if the user is listening to music with the screen turned off and doesn't want to be disturbed by system sounds or whatever so WASAPI exclusive mode is being used for playback until suddenly it decides to reboot and finalize the install of updates. I listen to sleep meditation music through my big floorstanding speakers while I am asleep. Others might be running video surveillance software that continuously records live streams online. In short, unattended tasks that either were launched by the user or were launched as a direct/indirect result of (a) user action(s) are user-managed tasks too. Interrupting a user-managed task automatically translates to interrupting the user unless the user has explicitly granted permissions to automatically intervene when certain specific criteria are met. So, forced automatic reboots are nothing short of a malware type of behavior. This is just a fact.

Try3 · Sep 11, 2022

As I said in my now-deleted reply yesterday, I am fed up with this pointless toing & froing.
Denis

sjoens · Dec 22, 2022

Interesting. My laptop says it supports Standby (S3), Hibernate, Hybrid Sleep, and yet it's fan takes off for no reason like others here describe using SO.

CmdrKeene · Jan 5, 2023

Try3 said:
Shawn,

I do not understand where you are are experiencing difficulty.
The Registry change described here is a single operation [and is easily reversible].

The only difficulties I have seen reported before have been, like Tony's & mine, that S0 gets disabled but S3 does not get enabled.

All the best,
Denis

That appears to be what happened for me. S0 disabled but S3 didn't become available. Actually no sleep command appears on the system now, although I'm not super sorry about that, maybe it'll solve my little pet peeve anyway, since this PC basically never leaves the desk, I just want it to not blow the fans at 100% all night long whenever the screens turn off.

Brink · Jan 5, 2023

CmdrKeene said:
That appears to be what happened for me. S0 disabled but S3 didn't become available. Actually no sleep command appears on the system now, although I'm not super sorry about that, maybe it'll solve my little pet peeve anyway, since this PC basically never leaves the desk, I just want it to not blow the fans at 100% all night long whenever the screens turn off.

Hello Shawn,

I find disabling network connectivity during Modern Standby helps with that and battery life without having to completely disable modern standby.

Enable or Disable Network Connectivity in Modern Standby in Windows 11 Tutorial

This tutorial will show you how to enable or disable network connectivity during Modern Standby while on battery and/or plugged in on a Windows 10 and Windows 11 device. In Windows 10 and Windows 11, there are two power models for PCs: S3 and Modern Standby (S0 Low Power Idle). The S3 power...

www.elevenforum.com

CmdrKeene · Jan 5, 2023

Brink said:
Hello Shawn,

I find disabling network connectivity during Modern Standby helps with that and battery life without having to completely disable modern standby.

Enable or Disable Network Connectivity in Modern Standby in Windows 11 Tutorial

This tutorial will show you how to enable or disable network connectivity during Modern Standby while on battery and/or plugged in on a Windows 10 and Windows 11 device. In Windows 10 and Windows 11, there are two power models for PCs: S3 and Modern Standby (S0 Low Power Idle). The S3 power...

www.elevenforum.com

The thing is that I want my screens to idle off, but I don't really want the system to disconnect from net because I may have an active RDP session running (the machine idling is the client, I just don't want to close the session necessarily), or the once a month where I run a powerShell web crawler script that takes about 4 hours to run. Or just if I want to connect to this machine itself from outside my home sometime. It's a laptop, but I treat it like an always-on desktop.

I don't know if this is expected, but it seems like modern standby devices enter S0 when the screens themselves turn off, even if the system itself is set to sleep-never. That seems to be absolutely the case on every Surface device I've ever had, but this newish Dell appears to be that way too.

I was thinking I could use PowerToys "awake" to keep the PC awake in the instances I need it, that little utility could sure use a keyboard shortcut or two. But I digress.

Try3 · Jan 5, 2023

CmdrKeene said:
it seems like modern standby devices enter S0 when the screens themselves turn off

That's correct.

There are, in effect, four Power/Computer states for an S0 Modern standby [aka S0 Low power idle] computer
- Computer on, Monitor on {Work can be done on the computer}
- Computer on, Monitor off = S0 {The monitor turning off initiates S0 Modern standby i.e. idle}. No user-desired activities take place, only MS-desired ones such as WU & their built-in email app.
- Hibernate
- Off

More comments in the other thread - Does S3 sleep work in Windows 11?

All the best,
Denis

hdmi · Jan 5, 2023

CmdrKeene said:
The thing is that I want my screens to idle off, but I don't really want the system to disconnect from net because I may have an active RDP session running (the machine idling is the client, I just don't want to close the session necessarily), or the once a month where I run a powerShell web crawler script that takes about 4 hours to run. Or just if I want to connect to this machine itself from outside my home sometime. It's a laptop, but I treat it like an always-on desktop.

I don't know if this is expected, but it seems like modern standby devices enter S0 when the screens themselves turn off, even if the system itself is set to sleep-never. That seems to be absolutely the case on every Surface device I've ever had, but this newish Dell appears to be that way too.

I was thinking I could use PowerToys "awake" to keep the PC awake in the instances I need it, that little utility could sure use a keyboard shortcut or two. But I digress.

CmdrKeene · Jan 5, 2023

hdmi said:

I saw this, it's what mostly inspired me to try this again. I don't get why it sucks so bad. Is it MS? Is it Hardware vendors? Is it both? Who is asking for this to suck so much.

hdmi · Jan 5, 2023

CmdrKeene said:
I saw this, it's what mostly inspired me to try this again. I don't get why it sucks so bad. Is it MS? Is it Hardware vendors? Is it both? Who is asking for this to suck so much.

The root of the problem AFAIK is Microsoft forcing the hardware vendors to make it suck so bad.

CmdrKeene · Jan 5, 2023

I don't understand the motivation. It clearly doesn't work like all the documentation seems to indicate it is meant to. My machine sure shouldn't get 300% louder when it goes to "sleep", and people shouldn't have their laptop melt in their backpack because they dared to, *checks notes from LTT* close the lid before they unplugged the cord.

It's 2023 and this is the nonsense we're dealing with? "You're unplugging it wrong." ?? Apple already tried an excuse like this. Come on MS

hdmi · Jan 5, 2023

CmdrKeene said:
I don't understand the motivation. It clearly doesn't work like all the documentation seems to indicate it is meant to. My machine sure shouldn't get 300% louder when it goes to "sleep", and people shouldn't have their laptop melt in their backpack because they dared to, *checks notes from LTT* close the lid before they unplugged the cord.

It's 2023 and this is the nonsense we're dealing with? "You're unplugging it wrong." ?? Apple already tried an excuse like this. Come on MS

The motivation is in the simple fact that Microsoft does not have to care. To Microsoft, our opinions are like sweat on a gnat's rear end.

CmdrKeene · Jan 5, 2023

I have to at least believe that someone (somewhere) thinks this is good for their profits/shareholders, but I just don't get how this is considered an evolved paradigm at all.