Solved Finding the right laptop

My two twelve year old HP Pavilion DM4’s (the one I just bought and the old one where the screen became detached) has a) a removable battery b) two removable panels on the back - one to access ram, the other to access hard drive and wifi card. I like it - when I first got it (at 2 years old) I thought it was a bit thin - lol. Compared to other laptops at the time, it was.

The keyboard has less travel as a result and is not the greatest but it’s fine to type on as the ergonomics are right.

I have two working ones so spare parts.

Can’t see the point in selling laptops that are only usable on a desk. But yes that is also why I don’t want a desktop. - to be able to move around and to be more portable - even if using it at home.

The boy is happier with a desktop - mainly because of gaming but also likes to have his desk and area, two monitors and comfy chair. (And it takes up a whole room!).

Winuser said:

Let me guess! You had to remove the rubber feet and a couple of screws and then had too carefully pry the bottom off. This is not something the average user should try. There is no reason except for greed that laptop makers had to make it harder to access the inside of the laptop.

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Nope. Each screw was covered with just a tiny piece of rubber that was easy enough to pry out of the hole with the sharp tip of a potato knife. These tiny rubber pieces are completely separate, so the rubber feet did not have to be removed. In addition, prying the bottom lid off was just a matter of pushing the side of an old credit card into the groove at the front before sliding the card gently through the groove, going past the corner and continuing along the side from the front toward the back. Just repeat this on the other side and that's it, the tabs pop out of the crevices, no brute force needed and no having to worry about breaking anything. Of course the screw that holds the SSD in place was underneath the little flatcable that sits on top of the SSD, but this screw was nonetheless easy to reach with the tip of my precision screwdriver. I gently pulled the stock Phison 512GB M.2 SATA SSD out, put the 229 Euros Samsung 2TB 980 Pro NVMe in, screwed everything back together and voilà. I later opened my laptop again to replace the stock 2×4GB SK Hynix kit with 57.86 Euros 2×8GB G.Skill Ripjaws DDR-4, 3200MHz, 22-22-22-52. This is a grocery store laptop that is now one year minus 10 days old, bought it new for 599 Euros so I have spent only 885.86 Euros in total. Future proof groceries FTW!

hdmi said:

Nope. Each screw was covered with just a tiny piece of rubber that was easy enough to pry out of the hole with the sharp tip of a potato knife. These tiny rubber pieces are completely separate, so the rubber feet did not have to be removed. In addition, prying the bottom lid off was just a matter of pushing the side of an old credit card into the groove at the front before sliding the card gently through the groove, going past the corner and continuing along the side from the front toward the back. Just repeat this on the other side and that's it, the tabs pop out of the crevices, no brute force needed and no having to worry about breaking anything. Of course the screw that holds the SSD in place was underneath the little flatcable that sits on top of the SSD, but this screw was nonetheless easy to reach with the tip of my precision screwdriver. I gently pulled the stock Phison 512GB M.2 SATA SSD out, put the 229 Euros Samsung 2TB 980 Pro NVMe in, screwed everything back together and voilà. I later opened my laptop again to replace the stock 2×4GB SK Hynix kit with 57.86 Euros 2×8GB G.Skill Ripjaws DDR-4, 3200MHz, 22-22-22-52. This is a grocery store laptop that is now one year minus 10 days old, bought it new for 599 Euros so I have spent only 885.86 Euros in total. Future proof groceries FTW!

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You just said almost the same thing I said only you worded it different. Also, one does have to worry about breaking the tabs when prying open the laptop. One laptop I opened up I had to be extra careful in the area of the hinges and the wires going to the screen. Unless someone is mechanically inclined, I would never recommend to them to take the back off of their laptop.

Wow, this thread is two and a half months old! I don't think I ever spent that much time thinking about buying a new ... anything really.

unifex said:

Wow, this thread is two and a half months old! I don't think I ever spent that much time thinking about buying a new ... anything really.

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I have this terrible feeling of déjà vu.

Winuser said:

You just said almost the same thing I said only you worded it different.

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Thou protesth too much. Rubber feet = they touch the hard flat surface that the laptop is standing on, so they are a meaningful kind of protection for anyone who doesn't always keep their laptop on their lap. These tiny rubber pieces that cover the screws do not. Removing them was easy and I don't miss them, regardless of who likes or who doesn't like this fact.

Winuser said:

Also, one does have to worry about breaking the tabs when prying open the laptop.

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I call BS.

Winuser said:

One laptop I opened up I had to be extra careful in the area of the hinges and the wires going to the screen.

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So choose a better laptop that doesn't have this problem, just like I did. I mean seriously...

Winuser said:

Unless someone is mechanically inclined, I would never recommend to them to take the back off of their laptop.

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The only thing that I recommend is to do a little bit of extra research before spending a lot of money on a poorly designed laptop that fails to meet everyday normal expectations. Aside from that, maybe don't try to use a precision screwdriver if you don't have a steady hand? Ask for assistance if needed? You know. Be sensible.

unifex said:

Wow, this thread is two and a half months old! I don't think I ever spent that much time thinking about buying a new ... anything really.

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Lol. I have been doing other things in between. Actually found something a while back and couldn’t get on with it. Then had a break (my Dad died). Now just pontificating really I guess. But the upshot is - I have given up looking for a new laptop and sticking with very old ones . As long as I can.

hdmi said:

Thou protesth too much. Rubber feet = they touch the hard flat surface that the laptop is standing on, so they are a meaningful kind of protection for anyone who doesn't always keep their laptop on their lap. These tiny rubber pieces that cover the screws do not. Removing them was easy and I don't miss them, regardless of who likes or who doesn't like this fact.

I call BS.

So choose a better laptop that doesn't have this problem, just like I did. I mean seriously...

The only thing that I recommend is to do a little bit of extra research before spending a lot of money on a poorly designed laptop that fails to meet everyday normal expectations. Aside from that, maybe don't try to use a precision screwdriver if you don't have a steady hand? Ask for assistance if needed? You know. Be sensible.

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Agree - most people used to be nervous enough about taking a small removable panel off to upgrade ram, never mind removing rubber feet and prizing off a thin piece of metal backing. Unfortunately most are like that now - not intended to be upgradeable.

hdmi said:

Thou protesth too much. Rubber feet = they touch the hard flat surface that the laptop is standing on, so they are a meaningful kind of protection for anyone who doesn't always keep their laptop on their lap. These tiny rubber pieces that cover the screws do not. Removing them was easy and I don't miss them, regardless of who likes or who doesn't like this fact.

I call BS.

So choose a better laptop that doesn't have this problem, just like I did. I mean seriously...

The only thing that I recommend is to do a little bit of extra research before spending a lot of money on a poorly designed laptop that fails to meet everyday normal expectations. Aside from that, maybe don't try to use a precision screwdriver if you don't have a steady hand? Ask for assistance if needed? You know. Be sensible.

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Rubber feet, rubber pads or what ever someone wants to call them have to be removed to gain access to the screws. And I don't care if you want to call it BS, when taking off the back one does need to be careful not to break something. I have opened many laptops so I do know what I'm talking about. At this point I think it's best to agree that we disagree.

Winuser said:

when taking off the back one does need to be careful not to break something

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Correct.

I'm a big fan of Chris at TechTablets on YouTube. He was reviewing a Voyo Mini PC some years ago. I watched in awe as he popped it open and showed me where to add RAM. So easy! So I popped mine open, popped the RAM open, and POPPED something while trying to close it again. I broke something and that was that: $200 damaged Mini PC, unless I wanted to use it without a sealed case.

I was pissed until I realized this was the first computer or phone I damaged my entire life. Countless devices I was so careful with and eventually could resell. A lot of them Macs. And so then I felt so lucky that the ONE device I messed up... was the cheapest of the lot.

The lesson was buy the unit the way you'll want it for the next few years. One that simply makes life easier, although --

-- 2.5 years ago I bought a Lenovo 2 in 1 that claimed to have 8GBs of RAM. I found out too late it really only had 6 because it dedicated 2 to the graphics situation. A guy online showed how to open it up and plainly stated DON'T DO THIS because it was pretty difficult.

Winuser said:

Rubber feet, rubber pads or what ever someone wants to call them have to be removed to gain access to the screws.

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Which took me a couple of minutes to remove.

Winuser said:

And I don't care if you want to call it BS, when taking off the back one does need to be careful not to break something.

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And I own a laptop that doesn't have this problem because I opened it twice, which puts me in the position to not have to care that you don't care.

Winuser said:

I have opened many laptops so I do know what I'm talking about.

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I wasn't talking about laptops that you have opened. I very clearly said "my Medion Akoya S15450".

Winuser said:

At this point I think it's best to agree that we disagree.

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The Pool Man said:

-- 2.5 years ago I bought a Lenovo 2 in 1 that claimed to have 8GBs of RAM. I found it too late it really only had 6 because it dedicated 2 to the graphics situation. A guy online showed how to open it up and plainly stated DON'T DO THIS because it was pretty difficult.

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This is one of those reasons why I had decided to upgrade from Windows 10 to Windows 11 anyway after all: the Windows Display Driver Model 3.0.

Hi,
Just decided to add my 2 cents to this thread.

If anyone decides to buy a Dell with 11th Gen CPU to be able to use Pcie 4x and upgrade M.2 with Samsung or WD Pcie x4 drives, don't do it!!

I just finished setting up a PC for a customer that bought a G15 5511 for under a 950$ Cdn. That's a great price. Unfortunately, as soon as you swap the the 2230 for a 2280 Samsung 980 or WD 850, read speeds drop below write speeds. I even saw the pc write read at 150mbs until reboot and stabilized at average 1500-3000 write read.

Dell will not support warranty with other drives like those 2 even if they meet the criteria of Dell.

So short story, if you're buying a Dell hoping to get a good deal and then upgrade with some quality parts, forget it.

I posted on Dell forum about this and a few users aren't happy at all with Dell's decision not to honour their material.
Dell G15 5511

Hazel123 said:

Lol. I have been doing other things in between. Actually found something a while back and couldn’t get on with it. Then had a break (my Dad died). Now just pontificating really I guess. But the upshot is - I have given up looking for a new laptop and sticking with very old ones :). As long as I can.

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Sorry if I sounded offensive, I didn't read the whole thing through.

Modern laptops are not designed to be "messed with". The plastic bodies are difficult to open without breaking, memory is more often than not soldered onto the motherboard, support is ... basically nonexistent, I'm not sure why people are still counting on it (mass-production companies can't possibly provide decent support since the vast majority of users have no idea what they are doing and so the support is mostly answering questions about which button to press when). I agree we are all sort of expecting a company to support its products, but the reality is, if you care about support you need to find a niche specialty manufacturer and inevitably pay more. If you go for a least expensive, mass-market product, forget about it.

unifex said:

Modern laptops are not designed to be "messed with". The plastic bodies are difficult to open without breaking, memory is more often than not soldered onto the motherboard, support is ... basically nonexistent, I'm not sure why people are still counting on it (mass-production companies can't possibly provide decent support since the vast majority of users have no idea what they are doing and so the support is mostly answering questions about which button to press when). I agree we are all sort of expecting a company to support its products, but the reality is, if you care about support you need to find a niche specialty manufacturer and inevitably pay more. If you go for a least expensive, mass-market product, forget about it.

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That isn't quite true, in part.

Any material that you buy and try to repair yourself while on warranty can cost you, well, your warranty. Opening a laptop just for the sake of it when you can't do anything more with it is also a waste of time and yes you may also break it.

On the other hand, opening a laptop to add a drive or memory (which is not soldered) in an empty slot made for that purpose is called upgrading. You can either have it added right away from factory or added in the future if you run out of space or need more ram. Now, adding material which doesn't fall under specs from factory will indeed render your material useless or make it run at sub par.

If a company offers you the possibility to add certain material but you decide to add it yourself following the same guidelines as factory specs then it's your call and material should be supported because the manufacturer sells it also.

Zardoc said:

That isn't quite true, in part.

Any material that you buy and try to repair yourself while on warranty can cost you, well, your warranty. Opening a laptop just for the sake of it when you can't do anything more with it is also a waste of time and yes you may also break it.

On the other hand, opening a laptop to add a drive or memory (which is not soldered) in an empty slot made for that purpose is called upgrading. You can either have it added right away from factory or added in the future if you run out of space or need more ram. Now, adding material which doesn't fall under specs from factory will indeed render your material useless or make it run at sub par.

If a company offers you the possibility to add certain material but you decide to add it yourself following the same guidelines as factory specs then it's your call and material should be supported because the manufacturer sells it also.

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I agree. There is no linear relationship between quality related factors and price. If some of your checkboxes that you want to see ticked by getting a new laptop are even just a little bit too high above that which generally qualifies as "mainstream", or "reasonably modern", then, more often than not, either you can expect to pay a hefty price premium and in very many cases still only be able to hope for the best or you can almost certainly expect to bump into technical problems/difficulties (and/or other quality issues/shortcomings) IMO, and IME. It is one of those reasons why I usually prefer to hunt for a mid-priced laptop. I.e., budget-friendly, but not so budget-friendly that it will translate to the classical "buy cheap, buy twice" pitfall. I buy a new laptop every ~3 years first and foremost because I am unwilling to wait for Windows Update to finish its job, so to speak. On Windows 10, each time when it used to stall at 30% for over one minute it just made my head hurt even though I always knew that Microsoft was doing that on purpose.

As for the upgradability, there weren't that many online reviews of my laptop at the time when I took the plunge (and there still aren't), and none of these reviews were/are in-depth. But I can read between the lines, so I knew beforehand that it was bound to be golden... which it is. I know that a lot of people will think it's mostly just about luck. Even so, I have a third eye that can spot affordable good quality enough that luck tends to have got very little to do with it. And I am not saying this to try to stir a debate. Laptops with similar specs to what I have currently are being sold at more than 50% above the total budget that I have spent.

About 'not or only minimally upgrading a laptop' I would say the same thing about 'not or only minimally upgrading a desktop'.

Try looking into your crystal ball for 10 years out (or for how long you intend to keep the device) and see if at the end of those x years you still have a device that serves its purpose.

I just purchases a used Lenovo ThinkPad T480. Here is the reason why.

My main computer is a desktop. I only use the laptop during trips away from our main residence.

My old laptop was ThinkPad T440s. My aim has always been for the laptop to give a similar experience as the Desktop.

I chose T480 as it has a replaceable battery and is windows 11 compatible.

It came win 10 pro. I restored my latest win 11 Desktop Macrium image to this laptop and after a few minor
changes it is very functional. It has Lenovo warranty until July 2022 I expect it to be my travel companion for 10 years or longer.

My 2 cents is worth...well, 2 cents, but all the points in this thread are exactly why I would never buy a modern day laptop. Nowadays, they are flimsily built, poorly designed from a thermal standpoint, and are basically throw-away devices. I use my PC for work and my ipad Pro for relaxation and travel. (not that I've gone anywhere in almost 2 years) The ipad handles anything I throw at it for what I use it for. I respect anyone's opinion who loves laptops, but I've had enough of them on my workbench to form an opinion of they aren't worth the money.
New PCs don't have the quality they used to, either, but at least I can work on them.