How To Make Windows 11 Like Window 10?

newmann · Oct 31, 2022

To the posters that keep saying use windows 10, it didn't come with windows 10 pro. It came with windows 11 pro. New computers that you buy now mainly come with windows 11. Only small percentage come with windows 10.

Now to the poster that said to test windows 10 now... you want me to download windows 10 in a usb flash drive and then run it on my computer? But doing this wouldn't it erase windows 11 pro which is not what I want? But you say I could dual boot it... meaning I could log in my windows 11 pro account with one... and windows 10 pro account with the other to test? But don't I only have 1 license though with this windows 11 pro? So I would need to buy a windows 10 license to test it then?

Yea I have a 12th generation i7-12700h processor. So if that is the case, why are people still suggesting me to install windows 10 since this is meat for windows 11? So what are my options now? Startallover or Start11 then? Again the option of no never combine windows is an option that it doesn't have which lot of users have complained about. So just download one of those 3rd party software? Avoid explorerpatch because of bugs?

Now are there plans for windows to add the never combine windows option in it's future update or not?

I mean I can use it as is... but it is very hard to use without the never combine windows. Anyone have experience with startallover or start11?

hsehestedt · Oct 31, 2022

newmann said:
To the posters that keep saying use windows 10, it didn't come with windows 10 pro. It came with windows 11 pro. New computers that you buy now mainly come with windows 11. Only small percentage come with windows 10.

Now to the poster that said to test windows 10 now... you want me to download windows 10 in a usb flash drive and then run it on my computer? But doing this wouldn't it erase windows 11 pro which is not what I want? But you say I could dual boot it... meaning I could log in my windows 11 pro account with one... and windows 10 pro account with the other to test? But don't I only have 1 license though with this windows 11 pro? So I would need to buy a windows 10 license to test it then?

Yea I have a 12th generation i7-12700h processor. So if that is the case, why are people still suggesting me to install windows 10 since this is meat for windows 11? So what are my options now? Startallover or Start11 then? Again the option of no never combine windows is an option that it doesn't have which lot of users have complained about. So just download one of those 3rd party software? Avoid explorerpatch because of bugs?

Now are there plans for windows to add the never combine windows option in it's future update or not?

I mean I can use it as is... but it is very hard to use without the never combine windows. Anyone have experience with startallover or start11?

The link I provided describes how to dual boot Windows. Put another way, when you start the computer it would show you a menu from which you select either Win 10 or Win 11 and boot the one you want. While I suggest remaining on Win 11 on that machine, the idea was that this would be an easy way to test Win 10 on the machine side-by-side with Win 11 on the same machine just in case you have your heart set on Win 10 instead. It would also be super easy to undo when done testing. That way you can make up your mind yourself on what works best on that machine for you.

As for licensing, Windows doesn't care if you have more than one copy to dual boot to. You are only running one at a time anyway. Bottom line is that no additional license is needed to do that.

hdmi · Oct 31, 2022

newmann said:
So just download one of those 3rd party software? Avoid explorerpatch because of bugs?

The opposite. Just download ExplorerPatcher, avoid the other ones because none of those are free open source hosted on GitHub publicly so that there can be no hidden secrets of any kind whatsoever, which every programmer already knows is true.

newmann · Oct 31, 2022

hsehestedt said:
The link I provided describes how to dual boot Windows. Put another way, when you start the computer it would show you a menu from which you select either Win 10 or Win 11 and boot the one you want. While I suggest remaining on Win 11 on that machine, the idea was that this would be an easy way to test Win 10 on the machine side-by-side with Win 11 on the same machine just in case you have your heart set on Win 10 instead. It would also be super easy to undo when done testing. That way you can make up your mind yourself on what works best on that machine for you.

As for licensing, Windows doesn't care if you have more than one copy to dual boot to. You are only running one at a time anyway. Bottom line is that no additional license is needed to do that.

Do I need to backup my data though on windows 11 pro in case?

Does anyone have experience with this? I heard of dual boot before.

newmann · Oct 31, 2022

hdmi said:
The opposite. Just download ExplorerPatcher, avoid the other ones because none of those are free open source hosted on GitHub publicly so that there can be no hidden secrets of any kind whatsoever, which every programmer already knows is true.

I heard there are tons of bugs with explorer patch though... so that is not true? Heard you have to wait till they fix the bugs as well. What type of bugs are there with it?

I read good things about startallover. You do have to pay for it but it is very little it seems.

hsehestedt · Nov 1, 2022

newmann said:
Do I need to backup my data though on windows 11 pro in case?

Does anyone have experience with this? I heard of dual boot before.

Technically, a backup should not be needed, but personally, I would think that it couldn't hurt to do one just in case something totally unexpected happens.

hdmi · Nov 1, 2022

newmann said:
I heard there are tons of bugs with explorer patch though... so that is not true? Heard you have to wait till they fix the bugs as well. What type of bugs are there with it?

Not counting the bugs that have already been fixed, personally, I, am counting only 2 bugs that might still re-occur on my laptop every once in a long while (or they might not). Neither one of these 2 bugs can be considered critical in nature, though, as there exists an easy temporary fix for both, and they have been happening to me infrequently enough for me to not lose sleep over them.

The 1st one is that after I reboot to finalize the install of a Cumulative Update that upgrades the build number of Windows 11, sometimes it can happen that explorer.exe fails to start when Windows is restarting after this same reboot. The result is a black screen with only a mouse pointer. But when this happens I can still press Ctrl + Shift + Esc to open Task Manager, and, next, in Task Manager, I can choose to manually start explorer.exe (leave the Run with admin privileges checkbox unchecked when you do this). Or if that doesn't work, I can still use the Task Manager to uninstall ExplorerPatcher temporarily, i.e. by choosing to run "%programfiles%\ExplorerPatcher\ep_setup.exe /uninstall" from there, and then reinstall ExplorerPatcher.

The 2nd bug has happened to me only very rarely so the last time I saw it was several months ago. It seems to be related to the other bug somehow. After ExplorerPatcher finished downloading new symbols, it tells you to restart File Explorer. In the settings window of ExplorerPatcher, in the bottom left corner there's a link that you can click on to restart File Explorer. So, after I click on this link like I am supposed to, everything seems to work fine, but if I don't reboot after that, then all of a sudden my taskbar can get messed up maybe hours later. Choosing to restart File Explorer once more does fix it, though, and, choosing to reboot after the new symbols have been received does prevent it before it happens. So, to me, this is non critical. (Compared to how critical is the steering wheel, I believe that it is.)

Finally, I should also note that a lot of people have complained about problems running ExplorerPatcher on insider builds of Windows. This is completely normal, and expected. A lot of people never read the documentation so they are often unaware that ExplorerPatcher is not designed to run on insider builds nor will ever be tested on insider builds, and what you get next is this whole big circus where it continues to rain all sorts of ridiculous presumptions. It's sad, but it's true.

newmann said:
I read good things about startallover. You do have to pay for it but it is very little it seems.

Why should I have to pay anything to get my steering wheel back that was stolen from me? If you really want to pay for that, then you could always send a donation to @valinet, the author of ExplorerPatcher.

hsehestedt · Nov 1, 2022

newmann, I see that you have a lot of concerns over bugs, and potential issues, and that you are receiving a lot of feedback about what works and what doesn't for various people.

My suggestion would still be to test it yourself and see how things work in your environment.

Often, I find that the best way to get an answer is to simply go ahead and try something, with appropriate precautions, of course.

hdmi · Nov 2, 2022

hsehestedt said:
My suggestion would still be to test it yourself and see how things work in your environment.

Agreed. Had I not been testing it myself for the past whole year now, people would soon be paying $8 a month just to be able to read my garbage comments on Titter.

Spartan · Nov 2, 2022

hdmi said:
Not counting the bugs that have already been fixed, personally, I, am counting only 2 bugs that might still re-occur on my laptop every once in a long while (or they might not). Neither one of these 2 bugs can be considered critical in nature, though, as there exists an easy temporary fix for both, and they have been happening to me infrequently enough for me to not lose sleep over them.

The 1st one is that after I reboot to finalize the install of a Cumulative Update that upgrades the build number of Windows 11, sometimes it can happen that explorer.exe fails to start when Windows is restarting after this same reboot. The result is a black screen with only a mouse pointer. But when this happens I can still press Ctrl + Shift + Esc to open Task Manager, and, next, in Task Manager, I can choose to manually start explorer.exe (leave the Run with admin privileges checkbox unchecked when you do this). Or if that doesn't work, I can still use the Task Manager to uninstall ExplorerPatcher temporarily, i.e. by choosing to run "%programfiles%\ExplorerPatcher\ep_setup.exe /uninstall" from there, and then reinstall ExplorerPatcher.

The 2nd bug has happened to me only very rarely so the last time I saw it was several months ago. It seems to be related to the other bug somehow. After ExplorerPatcher finished downloading new symbols, it tells you to restart File Explorer. In the settings window of ExplorerPatcher, in the bottom left corner there's a link that you can click on to restart File Explorer. So, after I click on this link like I am supposed to, everything seems to work fine, but if I don't reboot after that, then all of a sudden my taskbar can get messed up maybe hours later. Choosing to restart File Explorer once more does fix it, though, and, choosing to reboot after the new symbols have been received does prevent it before it happens. So, to me, this is non critical. (Compared to how critical is the steering wheel, I believe that it is.)

Finally, I should also note that a lot of people have complained about problems running ExplorerPatcher on insider builds of Windows. This is completely normal, and expected. A lot of people never read the documentation so they are often unaware that ExplorerPatcher is not designed to run on insider builds nor will ever be tested on insider builds, and what you get next is this whole big circus where it continues to rain all sorts of ridiculous presumptions. It's sad, but it's true.

Why should I have to pay anything to get my steering wheel back that was stolen from me? If you really want to pay for that, then you could always send a donation to @valinet, the author of ExplorerPatcher.

ExplorerPatcher is so buggy.

!) right click on the Start Menu button, you will notice that now you haver Power Shell and Power Shell ADMIN in addition to Terminal and Terminal Admin, that is not how it's supposed to be, there is no PowerShell Admin shortcut in the right click context menu of the Start Button. What's worse is if you click on PowerShell Admin, it launches the regular PowerShell without Admin privileges because you don't get a UAC prompt. I informed the developer but he doesn't seem to care. That's what you get when you're dealing with software created by a guy who just does it as a hobby. I know it's free, but now you're stuck with no support from a guy who doesn't give a darn as he's not obliged to.

2) With PatchExplorer, I get a lot of random Explorer crashes. With other solutions such as StartAllBack or Start11, 0 crashes.

PS: I did send 2 donations to @valinet Waste of money.

jimbo45 · Nov 2, 2022

Amazes me -- developers spend loads of time developing a new OS and people want to make it look like an old one --- If you like the old OS just run it as a VM --there are always plenty of hobbyists around who like to maintain Old OS'es -- there's even some "unofficial" but working fixes for an SP4 !! for Windows XP and if you want you can run the old IBM MVS/SP mainframe OS on a laptop using the Hercules emulator and "MVS Turnkey" project.

Old timer IBM sysprogs you can run the old MVS mainframe OS quite easily : (Amazing seeing running on a laptop which a large computer room full of "Big blue Iron" required back around late 1970's - but design principles still relevent today -- paging, virtual memory, task scheduling, background / forground tasks, networking, multi-user, file serving,security etc).

https://wotho.ethz.ch/tk4-/

all that said - I do think more effort should be put into W11 to allow more user customisations such as fonts and themes etc - however there's always a fine balance between too much lassitude and too rigid, If too many "mods" are allowed then the OS becomes really hard to maintain - and stability is particularly important for work lans etc.

Have fun

Cheers
jimbo

glasskuter · Nov 2, 2022

@jimbo45 I couldn't agree more. My opinion is even more hard-line than yours and won't gain me any brownie points but this old broad has never shied away from giving it. For a user who is knowledgeable and confident enough in his own abilities to deal with the consequences of mass tweaking and who is prepared to deal with them should they arise, tweaking is fine. But for any user to rely on only one system running a fledgling OS that has been altered dramatically in ways that was not the intent of the developer, is an accident waiting to happen. I feel the same way about running an insider build if a user has only one system. It just makes no sense to me.

hdmi · Nov 2, 2022

Spartan said:
ExplorerPatcher is so buggy.

!) right click on the Start Menu button, you will notice that now you haver Power Shell and Power Shell ADMIN in addition to Terminal and Terminal Admin, that is not how it's supposed to be, there is no PowerShell Admin shortcut in the right click context menu of the Start Button. What's worse is if you click on PowerShell Admin, it launches the regular PowerShell without Admin privileges because you don't get a UAC prompt. I informed the developer but he doesn't seem to care. That's what you get when you're dealing with software created by a guy who just does it as a hobby. I know it's free, but now you're stuck with no support from a guy who doesn't give a darn as he's not obliged to.

2) With PatchExplorer, I get a lot of random Explorer crashes. With other solutions such as StartAllBack or Start11, 0 crashes.

PS: I did send 2 donations to @valinet Waste of money.

1) If I right-click on my Start button, I get the Open-Shell Menu. The WinX menu is quite simply not needed IMO, albeit I can still access it via Shift + right-click on my Start button. (This behavior can be configured on the "Controls" tab of the Open-Shell settings window, very easily so, as a matter of fact, I have 2 different Start Menus because I have also configured Shift + left-click and Shift + Winkey in there.)

The shortcuts to open a command window as administrator, open a command window, open PowerShell as administrator and open PowerShell are located in %localappdata%\Microsoft\Windows\WinX\Group3 and can no longer be edited, due to a recent change that Microsoft has made to how Windows 11 factually works.

On TenForums, Tutorials division, in the comments I posted solutions (one for command prompt, one for PowerShell) to add these options to the Shift + right-click context menu (of folders and of the empty space in the background of opened folders) in such a way that 1/ no UAC prompt will be shown if choosing to open command prompt as administrator or choosing to open PowerShell as administrator (but will still open them as administrator nevertheless) and 2/ special characters (UTF-8 compliant) in the foldernames won't cause it to be broken and 3/ user customizations (such as the window background color, for example) can still be applied to each of all four of these options.

2) With ExplorerPatcher in addition to Open-Shell in addition to Battery Mode in addition to TranslucentTB app, aside from those 2 bugs that I previously described, I get 0 crashes. This is in spite of the fact that I have also applied multiple tweaks to File Explorer, like, reduced line spacing in nav pane, disabled automatic fading of chevrons in nav pane, restored ribbon, enabled Classic Explorer Bar, column headers always visible, automated pinning/unpinning from/to Quick Access in nav pane by my own script that I also posted on TenForums, you know... the whole shebang, and then some. You don't love duct tape? Buy an Apple!

Edwin · Nov 2, 2022

jimbo45 said:
developing a new OS and people want to make it look like an old one

Let's get one thing straight, (I'm speaking for myself here...)
It's not the look I'm concerned with, I think W11 looks fine...,
just the functionality sucks!

TraderGary · Nov 2, 2022

Edwin said:
Let's get one thing straight, (I'm speaking for myself here...)
It's not the look I'm concerned with, I think W11 looks fine...,
just the functionality sucks!

Functionality works well here.
W11 runs all my applications perfectly! :thumbsup:

Edwin · Nov 2, 2022

TraderGary said:
W11 runs all my applications perfectly!

Same here!

I have a Taskbar Toolbar that contains a mailto shortcut that allows me to drag any number of items, (up to 25MB), which instantly, silently and unobtrusively, gets sent to that particular recipient, without opening an app!
I want it, I have it, I need it, I use it every day...,
and, those crazy b*tches at MS are not going to take that ability away from me!!! :zany:

oldschool · Nov 3, 2022

A 3 page thread?

This uses Explorer Patcher. How to enable Never Combine Taskbar options in Windows 11

hdmi · Nov 4, 2022

jimbo45 said:
and people want to make it look like an old one

They don't. Read the thread title. This is about getting lost functionality back.

TraderGary said:
Functionality works well here.

No, it does not. You aren't even using the functionality that is the subject of this thread so, why are you here?

oldschool said:
A 3 page thread?

This is why I don't very often come here anymore. This forum website used to be about helping Windows 11 users with useful tips and advice, and, I can always appreciate a good laugh, IMO talking down on people should be permitted as long as it is clear enough that it's not meant to be taken seriously, actually I myself have received a warning once on TenForums because I had assumed I had made myself clear enough in this regard, but these days it's getting harder to get past the fact that a lot of knowledgeable people have left. So what you get next is that it's become more than just a wee bit silly. Some of us (myself included) are trained IT professionals. We have an overall strong sense of humor, and most of us also have thick skin more than the average person. Yet, I can attest that the nonsense overload along with the filler content are piling up fast on here, and IMO it gets old equally fast. TBH you should be grateful that it's not a 30 page thread...

Stigg · Nov 4, 2022

When people look back later at Windows 11 in a few years' time, I think it will be frowned upon as a crippled operating system.

I dislike it intensely. For me, it takes away more functionality than it offers. That doesn't make any sense to me.
I see it all the time with people trying to restore functionality to it. Microsoft appear to be dumbing it down to appeal to new users, even though the majority of Windows users have been around for many years. They're looking for new users. The long term users will eventually die out. They're looking to the future, I guess.

But that's just my opinion. Your opinion may differ.

cereberus · Nov 4, 2022

Stigg said:
When people look back later at Windows 11 in a few years' time, I think it will be frowned upon as a crippled operating system.

I dislike it intensely. For me, it takes away more functionality than it offers. That doesn't make any sense to me.
I see it all the time with people trying to restore functionality to it. Microsoft appear to be dumbing it down to appeal to new users, even though the majority of Windows users have been around for many years. They're looking for new users. The long term users will eventually die out. They're looking to the future, I guess.

But that's just my opinion. Your opinion may differ.

I think this is an exaggeration - it is hardly crippled, just a few annoying minor features taken away unnecessarily but they do not seriously impact use of OS. If it had forced S Mode on us (say) with no way of getting around it - that would be crippling.

I was annoyed at first but now I do not really notice that much. One great thing about humans is our ability to adapt.

Regarding dumbing down, I agree but I am more annoyed about the lack of serious development these days - it is as if they have run out of ideas (or more likely incapable of imaginative thought).