Immutable (atomic) Linux - any users here -- trying to create Windows VM via distrobox and container (KVM/QEMU)

Hi folks
Love the Aurora rel 42 (based on Fedora 42) immutable distro -- but trying to get a VM inside a container is just driving me round in circles !!!
You need some containerisation as the KVM/QEMU virtualisation requires some access to the hardware via config files which in an immutable system isn't permitted (the root '/' system is essentially read only and user stuff is in a rw area usually /var. So a VM is created in a contaijner - inside the container you can do what you like - so that allows VM creation via a url - but the whole thing just doesn't work (or I can't get it to work) as you can't reboot the container and you cant start the services (systemctl doesn't work).

I've cheated by enabling "developer mode" on the host - but that's really not or shouldn't be the solution !!!!

Anybody got this working on any of these "Atomic" / immutable distros -- love the whole container thing -- apart from the VM issue it's brilliant.

Cheers
jimbo

this is not much help.
i had a nightmare getting Win 11 24H2 to install in Gnome boxes on Fedora SilverBlue
because of /root being read only. no access to USB or attached USB drives.

first i had to install Win 10 22H2 from ISO into Gnome boxes then
i had to transfer all the files from a Rufus Win 11 24H2 USB to a folder
then upload that folder to OneDrive. download that 5.4 GB folder to the Win 10 VM
and then try the in place upgrade from the downloaded Rufus folder.

its taken several hours but i am now using Win 11 24H2 26100.4484 fully updated
in Gnome boxes (flatpak) on Fedora SilverBlue.

best of luck, Steve ..

XxXxX said:

this is not much help.
i had a nightmare getting Win 11 24H2 to install in Gnome boxes on Fedora SilverBlue
because of /root being read only. no access to USB or attached USB drives.

first i had to install Win 10 22H2 from ISO into Gnome boxes then
i had to transfer all the files from a Rufus Win 11 24H2 USB to a folder
then upload that folder to OneDrive. download that 5.4 GB folder to the Win 10 VM
and then try the in place upgrade from the downloaded Rufus folder.

its taken several hours but i am now using Win 11 24H2 26100.4484 fully updated
in Gnome boxes (flatpak) on Fedora SilverBlue.

best of luck, Steve ..

Click to expand...

@XxXxX
I've given up on these for the moment -- even if you do "Classic installs" via "Layering" there's still problems with things like usb redirect or adding usb / pci hardware. See my post on "The ugly side of this stuff" - even though it's a good idea for the future.


I'll make you jealous !! with a classical distro I don't have much experience of (opensuse rawhide) I got a whole KVM /QEMU VM (Windows 11 Enterprise) system with a whole slew of my apps including Office 2021 LTSC) up and running in around 30 mins flat on an old 8 year old laptop with a gen 6 i5 intel processor and only 8GB RAM in it !!!

Actually I can't believe how fast the Windows VM runs - and this is a really old laptop !!! - probably down to the Germans legendary teutonic efficiency !!! -- opensuse isn't probably much used outside of Europe but SUSE (the commercial arm) is used quite a bit though in the EU countries.

The basic idea is good but still needs A LOT OF WORK !! to make these mainstream for users who do want to install software that doesn't exist in the "official repos". 3rd party stuff is fine -- competition is always good !!! Who needs "N,Korean" type state controlled software !!!.

Cheers
jimbo

@jimbo45
im finding Fedora SilverBlue a breath of fresh air
i haven't managed to break it.

best of luck, Steve ..

XxXxX said:

@jimbo45
im finding Fedora SilverBlue a breath of fresh air
i haven't managed to break it.

best of luck, Steve ..

Click to expand...

Have you managed to get a Windows VM running on KVM/QEMU working on it yet !!!

Here's W11 Enterprise VM running on a standard (non immutable) release of opensuse tumbleweed on an ancient laptop (won't "officially" run native W11- although ways still around that) with only 8GB RAM and 256GB ssd.




and the host




Be careful also of "Layering" --i.e install via traditional package manager -- in this case ostree-install pkg install <pkg pkg etc>. This can break it if you even add "official repos" like rpmfusion.

The problem with VM's run on these "immutable systems" is that you run in usermode not system mode and things like usb hardware redirection and pass thru don't work -- or at least I can't get them to work (which isn't necessarily the same thing) .

If you DO get a proper Windows VM working - love to see details. I don't like the GNOME desktop (Silver blue) so I looked at kinoite (KDE based) but that's still in alpha - and kalpa which is actually a REAL DOGS DINNER (and that's being cruel to dogs).

An interesting project if I'm bored enough - is perhaps to build one from ArchLinux -- the good thing about these "distros" is that you can hobble up any "distro" you like with essentially stock components so it's only really the desktop GUI that's different if it's done properly and not done all over the place like kalpa probably only maintained by 1 man and his dog !!!

Running a full linux distro in a root enabled container where you can run things "classically" seems a bit of overkill - and you still need a connection via the "Host libvirt" to the one inside the container - and that's a killer to get working with any sensible type of networking.

I see the value of being able to run 3rd party GUI software i.e those not available via the base software repos via containers and export those to the Host desktop - but that all adds to overhead -perhaps not such a problem with modern hardware.


Cheers

jimbo

not KVM/QEMU as i have never used them but i do have Windows 11 24H2
up and running in Gnome boxes, which works for me.

best of luck, Steve ..

XxXxX said:

not KVM/QEMU as i have never used them but i do have Windows 11 24H2
up and running in Gnome boxes, which works for me.

best of luck, Steve ..

Click to expand...

@XxXxX
Thanks !! for giving me something to do today --I LOATHE shopping so when woman wants to go -- anything is better --even washing the car or doing a load of weeding.!!!!

I'm having another go with this stuff -- looking at the virtualisation wrapper "Gnome-Boxes" is a possibility -- it's still not as intuitive as the KDE desktop !! but that's probably ever since I started using Linux GUI desktops" I preferred KDE.

I suspect if these "Atomic desktops" can be sorted out without needing too much hybrid classical fiddling around they could be great -- but it's frustrating when stuff you can do in "the old way" takes 10 mins but you need to go right back to basics for the new stuff.

The weakness currently is with some of these is while root "/" is protected /var and /etc are user "fiddleable" -- not a good idea !!!!.

Gnome-boxes is an interesting "Virtualisation wrapper" but Oh dear I hate the Gnome GUI desktop !!! -- still it's quite fun playing around with this stuff !!!.

Cheers
jimbo

i have var/home which has the user /usr and /etc files encrypted
/root is read only but un-encrypted. its is about as locked down as a standard system can get.

i also have Fedora SilverBlue installed as a 'standard' installation with default partitioning
on a 1TB M2 SSD which means the file system is ext4 ..not.. BtrFS.

for Gnome boxes you will need to install Windows 10 22H2 using UEFI mode within boxes first
then upgrade from within the Win 10 install to Win 11 24H2 by uploading the contents of the Rufus
boot USB transferred to a folder to OneDrive or Google drive then downloading this folder to Win 10.

best of luck, Steve ..