In-place upgrade or fresh install?

Hey y'all.

Public rollout for 26H2 is just around the corner and I was thinking of, finally, updating from 23H2. I have been on that for so long because:
1. It was stable.
2. Windows stayed out of my way.
3. Heard horror stories around release of 24H2 and decided that the changes weren't worth the potential troubles.

The only "trouble" (more an annoyance than anything) I have right now, is that my optical drive issue, that I still have to this day, is still unsolved.

Most tech-savvy would immediately say "format and start over". But, in my case... my Windows installation, when installed from scratch takes DAYS - up to a WEEK - with the sheer number of software I have to install, software settings to reinstated from backups, Windows customization, making sure the paths to software is the same between old and new...

To give you an idea, I'm looking at around 57 software to install with an additional 10 has a maybe-maybe not.

So, that's why I thought of using an in-place upgrade that keeps all files and software. From my understanding, Windows just re-installs itself while keeping all user data when doing so. The only potential issues from this are the potential issues coming from the registry and drivers (I haven't used a 3rd party anti-virus in quite a long time - fyi).

Of course, if I decide to format, I can use Unattend Generator - get rid of some preinstalled software ("""bloat""") I don't use but have to recopy all my files and preferences... reinstall everything.

In both case, I'd make a full image of my internal M2 SSD using Macrium Reflect and have 2 copies of it (one on an external HDD and one on my NAS). So that:
- If there's anything wrong during or after the in-place upgrade, I can boot in a PE environment and re-image my internal SSD and get Windows exactly how it was before upgrade.
- After the format, I use the image to retrieve all my local files and settings back to where they were initially. (But always a great safety net)

So, I'd like to hear from people that has experience in using in-place upgrades. Is it reliable? Buggy enough to just go the reformat route?

Thanks!

I used an in-place upgrade on my corp AD enrolled win 10 laptop a few years ago to upgrade to win 11 and everything went fine.

Normally I would say blow it all away and start fresh but you may as well give the upgrade a go first and see if you have issues. Can always start from scratch if it doesn't go well.

I think your best path is Windows Update. It has a clear advantage: it will automatically revert to the old version and settings if it fails. If you have a 3rd party antivirus/firewall, at the very least disable it or better uninstall it. Reason: the upgrade can be a lot slower. I had 2 or 3 fails in the last minute of the process upgrading from 23H2 to 24H2 (until I managed to locate an incompatible "driver"), that took 16 hours each w/ antivirus/firewall and 2 hours w/o it (Windows Defender doesn't count). The reason is that these programs are set to examine the temporary files produced (this also affects the production of bootable media for Macrium Reflect and other bootable apps if you want to know, 40 vs 10 minutes here).

I almost never clean install for upgrades...so an In-Place Upgrade has been my best friend for many years.

Unfortunately, since you're on 23H2, you won't be able to use the quick Enablement Package to go to 26H2...you'll need to download the full ISO to upgrade.

If you're not on supported hardware, you'll either have to make a bootable USB drive using Rufus, or mount the ISO, open an elevated Command prompt, navigate to the drive letter for the ISO (cd to E: for example) and run setup.exe /product server to bypass the checks.

Thanks to all 3. Your answers are appreciated.

@Banjoman301 If you have seen my computer specs, I'm on supported hardware.

I would prefer reinstallation with keeping only the user files (to avoid unnecessary reformat of system drive and copying the files back, which isn't good for SSD). This allows to install the most recent apps and be free of any remnants of previous versions (unneeded files and Registry data). Also I'd suggest to install the minimal required number of apps, you can even replace some of them with other, more modern ones. Before installing optional apps, make a full system backup. But all above is good only if/when the new Windows 11 release is stable.

Unfortunately, current 25H2 even after two September system updates is still not. And if perform a patch of this version to 26H2, the bugs will remain the same. So, first and foremost: wait for stable and relatively bug-free version after 26H2 release. It may happen soon or in a few months, be patient. Then check that your specific drivers, custom UI tools and preferred apps are updated to 26H2 as well.

Naturally before you attempt a big change you will have made sure you have a current 3rd party disk image of at least all your O/S partitions.

Note: There is a way to trivialise transferring user accounts/installed programs between PCs or from an old build to a clean install should you wish: that's to use e.g. Easeus ToDo PCtrans with e.g. a clone of the old installation on a USB disk.

The program scans the old installation, then prompts you to select what you want to transfer.

E.g. I moved a good many programs from a Win 10 installation to a clean Win 11 installation. A huge time saver when you've many installed programs.

Avoid moving big programs (Office suites, games, and don't move security programs.

You can repeat the process again to transfer more if you wish.

One off license, also sometimes a giveaway, which is what I used.

I really wish people would read what I said in my opening post...

Slavic said:

I would prefer reinstallation with keeping only the user files (to avoid unnecessary reformat of system drive and copying the files back, which isn't good for SSD). This allows to install the most recent apps and be free of any remnants of previous versions (unneeded files and Registry data). Also I'd suggest to install the minimal required number of apps, you can even replace some of them with other, more modern ones. Before installing optional apps, make a full system backup. But all above is good only if/when the new Windows 11 release is stable.

Unfortunately, current 25H2 even after two September system updates is still not. And if perform a patch of this version to 26H2, the bugs will remain the same. So, first and foremost: wait for stable and relatively bug-free version after 26H2 release. It may happen soon or in a few months, be patient. Then check that your specific drivers, custom UI tools and preferred apps are updated to 26H2 as well.

Click to expand...

Yes, the remnants is what I'm the most worried about. Some people seem to have had no issues here.

Also, now that I think about it, if I only keep the user files, does it keep the Local, LocalLow, Roaming folders in AppData? What about ProgramData at root of C:\? Or are they considered system data and are wiped? Because if they're not, that alone would save me A LOT of time while still performing a relatively clean install. Then, installing the software again, say, Waterfox, would just see prior profile and load all bookmarks, tabs, settings... etc. without me having to replace the folder / copy old profile into new. The same would go with other software.

I also try to use Portable software whenever possible. The 57 software I mentionned are software that I use often to "it's installed because I have to install it despite not using it often". One of these cases is Audition 2023 that I only open because I have a plugin for it to check the validity of 24-bit audio files. Believe me, in these cases, I would rather not have to install it but I have to.

I also had planned to wait a bit after release. Probably around November or December. Since I do have some USB audio device and it seems to have issues currently which MS will fix (or has fixed already).

As for the SSD writing... while true that writing repeatedly to SSD is not good, most people exaggerate "how bad it is". Even if I had to copy 2TB+ of data on it, I would still be well below its tested write cycles. Most people will never wear out the SSD cells with every day usage. I'm not going out of my way to write multiple terabytes on it every day.

dalchina said:

Naturally before you attempt a big change you will have made sure you have a current 3rd party disk image of at least all your O/S partitions.

Note: There is a way to trivialise transferring user accounts/installed programs between PCs or from an old build to a clean install should you wish: that's to use e.g. Easeus ToDo PCtrans with e.g. a clone of the old installation on a USB disk.

The program scans the old installation, then prompts you to select what you want to transfer.

E.g. I moved a good many programs from a Win 10 installation to a clean Win 11 installation. A huge time saver when you've many installed programs.

Avoid moving big programs (Office suites, games, and don't move security programs.

You can repeat the process again to transfer more if you wish.

One off license, also sometimes a giveaway, which is what I used.

Click to expand...

Like I said in the OP, I said that I would make a Macrium Reflect image in case things go wrong. I'm extremely paranoid about my data and I'm certainly not taking risks.
Not interessed in 3rd party software to do data transfers.

Lebon14 said:

if I only keep the user files, does it keep the Local, LocalLow, Roaming folders in AppData?

Click to expand...

Yes.

Lebon14 said:

What about ProgramData at root of C:\?

Click to expand...

From Petri IT and Microsoft...

What Happens During an In-Place Upgrade

• User Profile Retention: An in-place upgrade preserves your user accounts, personal files, and hidden application data folders (such as C:\Users\[Username]\AppData). [1]
• Folder Structure: The subdirectories—Local, LocalLow, and Roaming—remain intact along with their contents so that your installed apps and settings continue to work. [1]
• System ProgramData vs. User AppData: While user profile folders in C:\Users are kept, system-wide folders like C:\ProgramData are treated differently and may be reset or moved to C:\Windows.old, requiring manual recovery for specific system app data. [1]

Lebon14 said:

I really wish people would read what I said in my opening post...


Yes, the remnants is what I'm the most worried about. Some people seem to have had no issues here.

Also, now that I think about it, if I only keep the user files, does it keep the Local, LocalLow, Roaming folders in AppData? What about ProgramData at root of C:\? Or are they considered system data and are wiped? Because if they're not, that alone would save me A LOT of time while still performing a relatively clean install. Then, installing the software again, say, Waterfox, would just see prior profile and load all bookmarks, tabs, settings... etc. without me having to replace the folder / copy old profile into new. The same would go with other software.

I also try to use Portable software whenever possible. The 57 software I mentionned are software that I use often to "it's installed because I have to install it despite not using it often". One of these cases is Audition 2023 that I only open because I have a plugin for it to check the validity of 24-bit audio files. Believe me, in these cases, I would rather not have to install it but I have to.

I also had planned to wait a bit after release. Probably around November or December. Since I do have some USB audio device and it seems to have issues currently which MS will fix (or has fixed already).

As for the SSD writing... while true that writing repeatedly to SSD is not good, most people exaggerate "how bad it is". Even if I had to copy 2TB+ of data on it, I would still be well below its tested write cycles. Most people will never wear out the SSD cells with every day usage. I'm not going out of my way to write multiple terabytes on it every day.


Like I said in the OP, I said that I would make a Macrium Reflect image in case things go wrong. I'm extremely paranoid about my data and I'm certainly not taking risks.
Not interessed in 3rd party software to do data transfers.

Click to expand...

And thank you so much for your kind and courteous reply. Good luck.

Banjoman301 said:

Yes.


From Petri IT and Microsoft...

What Happens During an In-Place Upgrade

• User Profile Retention: An in-place upgrade preserves your user accounts, personal files, and hidden application data folders (such as C:\Users\[Username]\AppData). [1]
• Folder Structure: The subdirectories—Local, LocalLow, and Roaming—remain intact along with their contents so that your installed apps and settings continue to work. [1]
• System ProgramData vs. User AppData: While user profile folders in C:\Users are kept, system-wide folders like C:\ProgramData are treated differently and may be reset or moved to C:\Windows.old, requiring manual recovery for specific system app data. [1]

Click to expand...

Forgot to ask something. What about drivers? Are they kept as a user's personal files or they must be reinstalled as well?

Option 1 (my absolute preference)
- backup data, at least - either image and/or native format
- swap out existing drive for a blank (that way, you can always go back), clean install. re-install all apps
- clean up Windows (Revo)
- restore data
- think about which 3rd party programs you really need to (re)install

Option 2
- image system (use 2 x image software for tin-hat insurance)
- update to 26H2
- reboot ..... and wait for it!! (Bookmark this forum, you'll be back)

Lebon14 said:

(Drivers) Are they kept as a user's personal files or they must be reinstalled as well?

Click to expand...

You probably won't need them, Windows will provide basic/default, at least. Only driver you might need to keep handy is networking (wifi and/or ethernet). Get that from the appropriate website

I keep the same base until some significant issue causes me to reformat and start fresh. I had a computer that was running Windows 8.1 and I upgraded it to Windows 10 some years back. Last year I finally replaced my two old 2012 & 2014 machines with my current crop and also did a fresh install of Windows 11. It hasn't all been super-smooth sailing, but for he most part things are running well.

Since you started with Window 11 and didn't replace your hardware, I'd have to consider the upgrade first. You can always do the clean install if the wheels fall off.

Before any move like this upgrade, an image backup of the complete system is a must, that way there's always a way back to where you were.

idgat said:

You probably won't need them, Windows will provide basic/default, at least. Only driver you might need to keep handy is networking (wifi and/or ethernet). Get that from the appropriate website

Click to expand...

It is very well known that AMD chipset drivers are basically necessary for great performance of their platforms (example). Basic chipset drivers are only for the first few minutes of installing Windows.

I also do not trust MS with driver install / updates. Too many horror stories. But also the LG TVs/Monitor spying scandal using MS Update to basically deliver malware. Noooooooooooope.

XxXxX said:

before you start any upgrade or re-install please backup your data.

Click to expand...

You only read the thread title did you? Because if you read my opening message, it said:

Lebon14 said:

In both case, I'd make a full image of my internal M2 SSD using Macrium Reflect and have 2 copies of it (one on an external HDD and one on my NAS). So that:
- If there's anything wrong during or after the in-place upgrade, I can boot in a PE environment and re-image my internal SSD and get Windows exactly how it was before upgrade.
- After the format, I use the image to retrieve all my local files and settings back to where they were initially. (But always a great safety net)

Click to expand...

----

gunrunnerjohn said:

I keep the same base until some significant issue causes me to reformat and start fresh. I had a computer that was running Windows 8.1 and I upgraded it to Windows 10 some years back. Last year I finally replaced my two old 2012 & 2014 machines with my current crop and also did a fresh install of Windows 11. It hasn't all been super-smooth sailing, but for he most part things are running well.

Since you started with Window 11 and didn't replace your hardware, I'd have to consider the upgrade first. You can always do the clean install if the wheels fall off.

Click to expand...

Yeah, this install was done because I had done something stupid. Then used a system restore point to return before I did that mistake but that busted all networking in Windows (couldn't even access my NAS!). So, I had to do an emergency backup of my data to an external hard drive I had laying around and install Windows fresh. That install of 23H2 is the install I still run today. I never upgraded to 24H2 because of how much horror stories I had heard. So, 24H2 came and went. 25H2 was introduced... that as well had lots of issues.

Since then MS introduce the K2 initiative which legitimately brought actual improvements to the system. So an in-place upgrade to go from 23H2 to 26H2 seem to be a good path.

I'm leaning towards a user-files only in-place upgrade and re-install all software so that I have more chances to fix the optical drive issue I point out in the OP that had never been fixed.

Lebon14 said:

It is very well known that AMD chipset drivers are basically necessary for great performance of their platforms (example). Basic chipset drivers are only for the first few minutes of installing Windows.

I also do not trust MS with driver install / updates. Too many horror stories. But also the LG TVs/Monitor spying scandal using MS Update to basically deliver malware. Noooooooooooope.

Click to expand...

To each their own. Can't compete with that level of paranoia. Done here.