Install hidden hardware inside mouse

Chef Duane · Apr 7, 2025

garlin said:
The only reason for a Chinese tech company to set up shop in Texas is the Eastern District of Texas. So you can sue someone else for patent infringement in a plaintiff-friendly U.S. District Court. It's probably not for the love of BBQ...

I have no idea how they came to the decision to HQ in Texas. Although we do have excellent BBQ.

spapakons · Apr 8, 2025

abactuon said:
BadUSB - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Back when USB flash drives were still expensive hackers would leave one at a public place. The victim would take it home, glad to find an "abandoned" or "lost" USB flash drive and plug it in the computer. The flash drive would either infect the system or even burn the USB port! "Fear of Danae and their gifts", as we say in Greek to warn about suspicious "offers".

Comport Colin · Apr 8, 2025

I wonder why you care about your mouse and not your keyboard. Mouse movement, unless perfectly relatable to GUI buttons that do something secret like an onscreen keyboard for PIN entry could, is usually not seen as critical. often, companies disallow non-corded keyboards while they impose no restrictions on mouse types, at the same time.

So maybe you would like to share why you think that mouse movement is even worth protecting?

spapakons · Apr 8, 2025

Not the mouse movement, the OP fears for malware hidden in the mouse firmware. As I said this is Sci-Fi. Watch less Sci-Fi movies and more comedy.

Steve C · Apr 10, 2025

It's much easier for a hacker or intel agency to install hidden malware on your PC

Into_Oblivion1 · Apr 22, 2025

Berton said:
Your concerns are a stretch. Can it be done? Sure. A hacker, (if he's good enough) can exploit any form of receiver, firmware, or vulnerable software or driver. As sophisticated as malware is these days

- The installed hardware part would need to transmit and receive a given signal, for the hacker to be able to use it
- The hardware part would have to be installed somewhere in the mouse
- The hardware part would have to work together with the firmware of the mouse
- The hardware part would have to use the mouse cord for connection to the system

Am I leaving any points out?

Just by typing above points, it sound almost impossible - but most things are possible in theory

Into_Oblivion1 · Apr 22, 2025

Aramil said:
Logitech M500s Advanced Corded Mouse, Yes , Its a USB Device, so Code execution off a piggy backed chip/board inside the mouse would be the simplest way, and maybe with a little help from your mouse software "checking for updates" it would be possible to do so.

You can technically make almost any USB device deliver a package, as long as you know the target system/OS, that's how less than legitimate USB sticks/cables allow for "package delivery" to otherwise untouchable systems, everyone knows not to plug in random USB drives.

Code execution, as in deliver malware to the system? Take over the system?

The piggy backed chip/board would have to work together with the mouse hardware and firmware to work?
That sounds really difficult and advanced

I believe, that the mouse itself can't piggyback and malware or code - since the only data the mouse holds, is its own firmware, and data can't be written to the mouse. Agree?

Into_Oblivion1 · Apr 22, 2025

neemobeer said:
1. Yes someone could do this, in fact it's been done before on other device types.

Do you have any examples?

neemobeer said:
2. I'd say someone would need to be moderately skilled to do this and have a pretty strong motivation. I doubt anyone is going after some rando.

Are we talking hackers like NSA-level?

What would it require?
- The installed hardware part would need to transmit and receive a given signal, for the hacker to be able to use it
- The hardware part would have to be installed somewhere in the mouse
- The hardware part would have to work together with the firmware of the mouse
- The hardware part would have to use the mouse cord for connection to the system

Am I leaving any points out?

Just by typing above points, it sound incredible difficult and advanced

neemobeer said:
3. What could someone do? Basically anything a computer can do. The attached device could be completely independent of the mouse itself. I have devices that I can emulate keyboards and such and run ducky scripts for whatever purpose I choose to.

But that would require a whole rebuild / remodification of the mouse?

gunrunnerjohn · Apr 22, 2025

There are so many attack points on modern computers that the biggest problem the bad guys have is picking which technique to use!

Into_Oblivion1 · Apr 22, 2025

spapakons said:
For a wired mouse, I could say the chances as ZERO, as he should have physical access to the computer to inject malicious code. Watch less Sci-Fi movies, and a little more comedies, or even cartoons... It will calm you down.

Why would it require a malicious code / malware to work?

- The installed hardware part inside the mouse transmits and receives data to the hacker
- The hardware part works together with the firmware of the mouse
- The hardware part use the mouse cord for connection to the system

I am not afraid of malware on the mouse:
I believe, that the mouse itself can't piggyback and malware or code - since the only data the mouse holds, is its own firmware, and data can't be written to the mouse. Agree?

gunrunnerjohn · Apr 22, 2025

Into_Oblivion1 said:
I am not afraid of malware on the mouse:
I believe, that the mouse itself can't piggyback and malware or code - since the only data the mouse holds, is its own firmware, and data can't be written to the mouse. Agree?

Actually, that's not true. I know my Logitech G305 updated it's firmware when I first installed it, so it's clearly possible to change the firmware as that was done by the Logitech software.

spapakons · Apr 22, 2025

Into_Oblivion1 said:
Why would it require a malicious code / malware to work?

- The installed hardware part inside the mouse transmits and receives data to the hacker
- The hardware part works together with the firmware of the mouse
- The hardware part use the mouse cord for connection to the system

I am not afraid of malware on the mouse:
I believe, that the mouse itself can't piggyback and malware or code - since the only data the mouse holds, is its own firmware, and data can't be written to the mouse. Agree?

Before going totally paranoid, why do you think a hacker would target specifically you (a random individual computer user)? Are you an organization? Are you a bank? Do you have something they want? It would be much easier for a skilled hacked to infect your computer by e-mail or a suspicious website, than with your actual corded mouse. If you are careful what you click on (preferably CANCEL if unsure), then you have VERY LITTLE chance to be attacked. So just relax!

gunrunnerjohn · Apr 22, 2025

spapakons said:
Before going totally paranoid, why do you think a hacker would target specifically you (a random individual computer user)? Are you an organization? Are you a bank? Do you have something they want? It would be much easier for a skilled hacked to infect your computer by e-mail or a suspicious website, than with your actual corded mouse. If you are careful what you click on (preferably CANCEL if unsure), then you have VERY LITTLE chance to be attacked. So just relax!

I have my wife trained, if she see anything that she doesn't understand, she asks before clicking on it. She also doesn't click on any links in email, that's a hard-n-fast rule!

spapakons · Apr 22, 2025

Only once I had my computer infected, every single executable file (EXE) was damaged and useless. This was over 15 years ago. Obviously in that case, don't try to save any data, all are infected. Just format and reinstall Windows and forget about any non-backup data.

neemobeer · Apr 22, 2025

I'd say the risk is so low for the mundane user that's it's not worth worrying about. Someone would have to have physical access to your device (mouse)

This isn't a mouse but a normal looking USB cable.

Evil USB Cable Can Remotely Accept Commands From Hacker

The cable itself looks pretty generic, but the security researcher Mike Grover actually fitted a Wi-Fi chip inside one of the sockets, which can be used to remotely send commands to the connected PC.

www.pcmag.com

Aramil · Apr 22, 2025

Into_Oblivion1 said:
Code execution, as in deliver malware to the system? Take over the system?

The piggy backed chip/board would have to work together with the mouse hardware and firmware to work?
That sounds really difficult and advanced

I believe, that the mouse itself can't piggyback and malware or code - since the only data the mouse holds, is its own firmware, and data can't be written to the mouse. Agree?

The Hardware could be piggybacked into the mouse USB, A few wires. (but why would anyone actually do it to you)

You are running off down a deep rabbit hole, with all of your recent themes in posts here, in the real world no one is targeting you or you PC directly unless you make it a target by having poor internet hygiene and practices.

Your time would be better focused on having a more secure Network that is restrictive on what has access to what and when, than is "X" device spying on me.

neemobeer · Apr 22, 2025

Agreed it's a bit of a rabbit hole. but it wouldn't piggie back off the mouse. Since you can daisy chain 127 devices off 1 usb port the malicious device would show up as another device and can act independent of the actual mouse

glasskuter · Apr 22, 2025

I'm trying to figure out if this thread is a "howstuffworks" discussion or if the user is just overly paranoid about security.
While I do practice safe computing, the day I begin to worry about every single component I use is the day I hang computing up. Either my blood pressure couldn't handle it or I'd be in the loony house.

gunrunnerjohn · Apr 22, 2025

neemobeer said:
Agreed it's a bit of a rabbit hole. but it wouldn't piggie back off the mouse. Since you can daisy chain 127 devices off 1 usb port the malicious device would show up as another device and can act independent of the actual mouse

Correct, I found that my smart mouse actually represents itself as a mouse and a keyboard. I found out when I was trying to keep the mouse from waking the computer from sleep, too often the desk would be bumped and the computer would wake up.

glasskuter said:
I'm trying to figure out if this thread is a "howstuffworks" discussion or if the user is just overly paranoid about security.
While I do practice safe computing, the day I begin to worry about every single component I use is the day I hang computing up. Either my blood pressure couldn't handle it or I'd be in the loony house.

I hope it's the former and not the latter.

I've never spend any time worrying about what my mouse was infecting, I can do a lot more damage with a few mouse clicks!

spapakons · Apr 22, 2025

Do you feel lucky l? Try using a totally unprotected Windows 98 computer! If there was a suitable browser for Windows 98, would you dare connecting to your bank or make online purchases? That would be too brave or too stupid...

Install hidden hardware inside mouse

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