Macrium Reflect v10

Is there any talk of or has anyone here tested any kind of new feature to handle modern standby and scheduled tasks, specifically a mechanism to rouse/stir a machine in S0 idle state back to a working state for a scheduled backup?

I see no mention of standby in all the hype at _VX_BETA - Knowledgebase 8.0 - Macrium Reflect Knowledgebase

If this problem has already been solved I'd love to know the solution.

I don't mean hacks to disable modern standby in windows via registry changes, setting sleep to never, not turning off the display etc.

dabl said:

If this problem has already been solved I'd love to know the solution.

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I don't recall if it was 'solved' but there was a lengthy discussion on it in the Macrium Forum here:

Bree said:

I don't recall if it was 'solved' but there was a lengthy discussion on it in the Macrium Forum here:

Power Options to Execute Backups

forum.macrium.com

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Thanks. Nope, same old dead ends.

dabl said:

Thanks. Nope, same old dead ends.

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I doubt you will find a solution unless the OEMs make it available on new motherboards or maybe with a BIOS update.

Winuser said:

I doubt you will find a solution unless the OEMs make it available on new motherboards or maybe with a BIOS update.

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It seems to me Microsoft are the ones to blame and who know how and could provide a fix.

Clearly they have the API to design apps to function in S0 idle mode.

They could even very simply fix the problem for scheduled tasks by making the wake timers and wake the computer from sleep settings also apply to S0 idle state.

This seems to be the position Macrium was taking in October 2021. Sad that nothing seems to have changed since then.

Users are the ones that lose frankly. Once Microsoft and Macrium have our money, what do they care really.

It's insane to me how long this problem has existed and how many people are affected, albeit only the ones who care about scheduled tasks running during periods of S0 idle will care.

I don't understand how that can't be MANY Macrium users.

Maybe not that many have newer computers and/or run Windows 11. Yet.

I predict the drum beats will get louder on this one.

I sure as hell will beat mine like King Kong.

dabl said:

t seems to me Microsoft are the ones to blame and who know how and could provide a fix.

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If I remember right it was MS that made the OEMs use Modern Standby. If Im wrong someone can correct me. IMHO, Modern Standby is nothing but trouble and should be discontinued. I had a laptop that came close to getting fried because of Modern Standby. I did a reg hack that allowed the laptop to use S3 Sleep. It no longer has that option. I think a BIOS update disabled it.

Winuser said:

If I remember right it was MS that made the OEMs use Modern Standby. If Im wrong someone can correct me. IMHO, Modern Standby is nothing but trouble and should be discontinued. I had a laptop that came close to getting fried because of Modern Standby. I did a reg hack that allowed the laptop to use S3 Sleep. It no longer has that option. I think a BIOS update disabled it.

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Exactly. Lenovo used to have a bios setting to flip between S0 and S3. No more.

And per the below example manufacturers like Lenovo getting problem reports point people to complain to Microsoft.

We have to face it, Microsoft needs to fix this, period end of story.

That said I think Lenovo are being punks in the public about it in the below exchange and I don't intend to allow Lenovo tech support to get off the hook this way in the period during my warranty for my new $1800 X1.

They are in a far better position to make change requests to the OS provider on the millions of units they ship to make the customers happy.

We'll see, I'm not optimistic Lenovo won't simply point fingers at Microsoft when I open a ticket. But I intend to rub it in their face that they cannot offer customers the same functionality with regard to Windows scheduled tasks on their S0 machines that they had previously in S3 mode.

It's BS plain and simple.

Please Give Us the Option for S3 Sleep Mode - Modern Standby is Unreliable!

I posted this elsewhere as well but based on the below it seems to me Microsoft may not be keeping it a complete secret how to implement modern standby in applications.

The question is after drilling into this, is there in fact a real world useable tool here a developer of something like Macrium Reflect could make something with.

Integrating apps with modern standby

Support your app with background tasks

Wake Sources

dabl said:

We have to face it, Microsoft needs to fix this, period end of story.

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As far as I am concerned, and some of you will hate me for this, but I don't care , this is already fixed. One of the big complaints was that the laptops would wake up while in standby, the user would pull out the laptop, and the battery would be dead. Or, a user might pull the laptop out of a bag after it had woken up and it would be crazy hot due to being in a confined space.

My laptop never ever, not once, has woken up by itself when in modern standby. The one exception is if the lid is open and my face moves in front of the camera. In that case the Time of Flight sensor will detect me and wake the system and log me on.

You simply cannot have it both ways. Either you allow it to wake, or you risk it waking when you don't want because something you were not aware of caused it to wake.

If I wanted to the machine to wake I would simply put it into hibernation as it will wake from that condition.

In my case, it is perfect as it is. There is simply no way to please everyone.

Okay, fire away - tell me how crazy I am

hsehestedt said:

As far as I am concerned, and some of you will hate me for this, but I don't care , this is already fixed. One of the big complaints was that the laptops would wake up while in standby, the user would pull out the laptop, and the battery would be dead. Or, a user might pull the laptop out of a bag after it had woken up and it would be crazy hot due to being in a confined space.

My laptop never ever, not once, has woken up by itself when in modern standby. The one exception is if the lid is open and my face moves in front of the camera. In that case the Time of Flight sensor will detect me and wake the system and log me on.

You simply cannot have it both ways. Either you allow it to wake, or you risk it waking when you don't want because something you were not aware of caused it to wake.

If I wanted to the machine to wake I would simply put it into hibernation as it will wake from that condition.

In my case, it is perfect as it is. There is simply no way to please everyone.

Okay, fire away - tell me how crazy I am

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My take:

Yes I agree the gross problems with modern standby you describe and which were analyzed very well by Linus Sebastian a year ago do seem to have been fixed, probably in no small part due to his reporting.

The problem remains though with rousing the machine from S0 idle for scheduled tasks, something Linus did not touch on.

If you argue this too has been solved and analyzed very well by user Try3 here, then I don't really agree because that solution involves simply disabling sleep, which though I agree works and the results of which may not be too bad, is still a compromise to full S0 idle, which otherwise pretty well mimics S3 sleep, something we *had* before *and* which worked for scheduled tasks, and which is (still) an advertised feature. Also of course many cannot simply return to S3 with an S0 machine as is evidenced by the lengthy thread here on attempting that. Per the video, that is explained as well. Intel chips currently do in fact still support S3 sleep *but* it is up to the manufacturers who provide the firmware (read bios) to implement that or not.

For me it's all about scheduled tasks during S0 idle, specifically a macrium backup in the middle of the night, something I'd think would be a pretty common use case amongst users of any backup software and one which I'd not willingly sacrifice or workaround to accommodate this new and supposedly improved technology.

As a side note, per the referenced video, I fully agree there should be an additional adjustment Microsoft should provide like Apple finally did, which is to allow the user to turn off network activity while on battery in S0 idle. This makes perfect sense and I really can't see the argument or use case for allowing a computer to have a bunch of network activity let alone do updates which could involve huge amounts of data while on battery. If Microsoft really want laptops to act like modern phones then they will have to make modern standby really bullet proof and much smarter, for instance smart enough to say 'yeah I'm not going to try and pull down and install this giant file or worse, bios firmware while on battery and/or when the network connection is less than ideal'. I know for a fact my Apple phone is smart enough to do that kind of thing.

Back to the subject at hand, as I understand it, Microsoft's position is S0 idle and scheduled tasks will need to be handled by application developers, and per above, it *may* be they've given application developers what they need to handle this.

That is something best addressed by actual application developers, something it would be a stretch to count myself among but I must admit I'm not really seeing anything so far along the lines of actual code function calls.

Did they give any ETA on version 10 being out of beta testing?

Mister.T said:

Did they give any ETA on version 10 being out of beta testing?

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Good question, but I have not seen any dates discussed yet.

As a member of the beta team I can tell you there are still many issues to work through... be patient

If the increase in license prices for MR from v8 to v10 is anything like it was from v7 to v8, that is likely to move me away from MR completely.

For MR V7, I had a 4-pack that cost $100. Assuming, for discussion, that you get two years out of a version before they come up with a new one, that means that the license rate is $25 for each system for two years -- or $12.50 per year per system. Quite affordable, at least, to me.

Then with MR 8, I wanted to upgrade only two of my licenses, but MR folks told me it was all 4 or none -- and the subscription plan was $50/year per system, the one-time rate being $80 per system. Even if I spread the $80 over two years, that still amounts to $40 per system per year instead of $12.50. That's over a three-fold increase in cost!

And yeah, I found out later that they had a %50 off sale on the 4-packs -- but that still means a 150 percent increase in price.

So, if they do the same kind of price hike for v10, I'm looking at alternative products.

Street rumors...

Macrium REFLECT v10(X) licensing will almost for sure move to a subscription-based model (don't know the cost). Initial offers will include 50% OFF lifetime subscription as long as you don't CANCEL, and 33% OFF a 3-yr subscription, going up to full price after 3-yrs. Also, some sort of offers for those who purchased a v8 license in the 3-mo prior to the release.

Remember, these are just rumors...

Froggie said:

Street rumors...

Macrium REFLECT v10(X) licensing will almost for sure move to a subscription-based model (don't know the cost). Initial offers will include 50% OFF lifetime subscription as long as you don't CANCEL, and 33% OFF a 3-yr subscription, going up to full price after 3-yrs. Also, some sort of offers for those who purchased a v8 license in the 3-mo prior to the release.

Remember, these are just rumors...

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The only Rumours that are sound are by Fleetwood Mac

Josey Wales said:

According to Macrium Reflect I can continue to use MR 8 as long as I want to but without support. I would not even think of trying a BETA product to backup my data. I will continue to use it for as long as it still works. Then I may seek alternatives as I will not go the subscription plan.

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Love the sig.

I'd gladly pay for a 50 percent off Lifetime subscription it turns out to be true. But for now waits to see what happens at this point.

Do like Macrium Reflect Home edition, same as i did Macirum Free i used prior to deciding to buy when i was on version 7

If the image format is being made available via Open Source surely it shouldn't take someone too long to replicate a way to create and read / write to it providing the mechanism for a free alternative product. Even A.I can help a lot with the coding process.

This seems a risky gamble for Macrium to take IMHO. However that's a corporate decision - maybe they are looking for someone with deep pockets to take them over / buy them out / associate with the "Big boys" -- such as Red Hat - a large company with 1000's of corporate clients being "Swallowed up" by the even bigger IBM.

Cheers
jimbo

Reflect X <v10> is being announced today, FYI!