Microsoft is blocking Windows 11 build upgrades on systems with StartAllBack

hdmi · Apr 6, 2024

Edwin said:
Wasn't an issue in the past. Why all of a sudden on April 3, 2024?

Probably it's because everyone would believe them if they had done it on April 1, 2024.

Jbennett360 · Apr 6, 2024

I mean, if they just gave people the option to use the classic start menu we were all use to, the one that was functional. The majority of us wouldn't be using these programs

Edwin · Apr 6, 2024

hdmi said:
ExplorerPatcher does not modify any system files.

I don't think SAB does either.
I don't pretend to know how it all works but, SAB packs it's own set of dll's and stylesheets so, there's probably a lot of hooking or re-directing going on.

Edwin · Apr 6, 2024

neves said:
... it's just a subjective reasoning of a Microsoft dev or product manager

Probably...

You're gonna run Windows the way we designed and intended it to run, if you don't comply, we're gonna shut you down!

neves · Apr 6, 2024

Edwin said:
You're gonna run Windows the way we designed and intended it to run, if you don't comply, we're gonna shut you down!

Currently and for a long time - that's Apple's territory: macOS meant only for proprietary hardware, and only the way Apple desires. Even the hardware - meant to be repaired only by official Apple services - at the most overpriced prices. Thus, the thousands of Apple lawsuits against thousands of small phone/computer repair shops - for daring to fix apple products even 10x cheaper that they're charging. Furthermore - also trying to complicate the repairs of Apple products - in the most machiavellian ways imaginable (like Chips designed to work only on a singular product - and checking for the product serial to be able to start). Then, there's the latest MacBooks - with soldered SSDs and RAM with 0 upgradability (sure, you can add external storage - but when it comes to RAM you're stuck with the soldered component - same as buying a smarthphone - where if you need more ram - you'll just have to but a new product with more RAM included). To bad, they're some of the best products - if you don't need more memory for whatever you're using a Mac or simply afford to buy a new product (as an upgrade). Last but not least, both E.U. and U.S. are sueing Apple on a yearlly bases - for forcing such an imoral monopolly on its customers - but as long as their products don't get banned - they pay the fines and keep doing their thing.

Microsoft and Windows - is a far lesser Evil - if measured againts Apple and macOS level of monopol. Tho, as mentioned above - if you want more freedom - Linux the answer. Since Windows is still proprietery and folows one ideology and one limited flavor (compared to Linux which can offer so many flaovers and so many ideologies). If anything Mircrosoft does have a people pleasing side to their Windows marketing tacticts (it's why they have so many Open Source projects - including the option to install Linux using Windows Subsystem for Linux). Prety obvious this are Devil contracts (this actions are motivated by private/monteray interests - it's clearly a marketing move), tho... as mentioned above - still a far lesser Evil - compared to the fully-fledged Devil called Apple.

If anything, you install this update on a clean system - while explorer patcher and StartAllBack will release a new version which can crack that. Wouldn't jump the gun - and already compare Microsoft with Apple - for the sistuation in question (turning full-fleged Evil).

Edwin · Apr 6, 2024

neves said:
Mircrosoft does have a people pleasing side to their Windows marketing tacticts

I call it something else, but..., I'm holdin myself back!!! :wink:

hdmi · Apr 6, 2024

neves said:
Microsoft and Windows - is a far lesser Evil - if measured againts Apple and macOS level of monopol. Tho, as mentioned above - if you want more freedom - Linux the answer.

For everyday basic tasks, Linux might be the answer, BUT... once you start driving into the more advanced and/or less common type of territory about that part, that's when you'll soon find that Windows is still neck and shoulders above Linux in pretty much every possible way that you can imagine.

For one, you can't properly maintain Linux, as there's always something that breaks after an update in such a particular way that it disrupts important parts of your workflow, and that you can't easily find a fix or workaround so no, it usually doesn't add more freedom. This negative impact gets worsened by the fact that software choices (again, outside of basic tasks, maybe) on Linux are still far too limited compared to Windows. A lof of Linux software just doesn't let me do what I want to do, how I want to do it. The typical end result will be that it is the exact opposite to adding more freedom.

Add to that this other fact, that Linux has a tiny user base, that those who have the knowledge to help you find answers to questions about Linux problems are more often unwilling to help out compared to Windows, and that the documentation about Linux keeps lagging behind in various many areas that also includes a lot of the ones that happen to be important. Then what you have left is a homeopathy-like fraction of freedom that has been watered down with copious amounts of "what could've been freedom, should've been freedom, isn't freedom". If you mean what I get. lol

Also consider that a lot of latest hardware (and some older hardware) either isn't supported on Linux or is only partially supported.

I could go on, but I'll stop here.

Winuser · Apr 6, 2024

Edwin said:
Wasn't an issue in the past. Why all of a sudden on April 3, 2024?

Maybe it's because the StartAllBack app is making MS feel bad. A third party programmer is doing what the programming team at MS either can't or won't do. :think:

antspants · Apr 6, 2024

Yeah, I read that Nadella was crapping his pants over SAB

ajgringo619 · Apr 6, 2024

hdmi said:
For everyday basic tasks, Linux might be the answer, BUT... once you start driving into the more advanced and/or less common type of territory about that part, that's when you'll soon find that Windows is still neck and shoulders above Linux in pretty much every possible way that you can imagine.

For one, you can't properly maintain Linux, as there's always something that breaks after an update in such a particular way that it disrupts important parts of your workflow, and that you can't easily find a fix or workaround so no, it usually doesn't add more freedom.

I could go on, but I'll stop here.

Do you really believe anything you just said? Been using Linux for 20 years and have never experienced any of what you posted. "Properly maintain Linux"??? Come on, now - the Linux update processes are light-years ahead of Windows. "Always something that breaks???" Another whopper. While Windows 11 has gotten much better, it's still much slower to update than Linux.

Yes, I'm using Windows 11 Home as my daily driver, mostly due to my distain of dual-booting and my obsession with gaming performance, where Windows blows Linux out of the water. I love using Hyper-V for my VM testing, and still use a KDE Plasma VM for my main workstation.

Each of these OS platforms have their places.

hdmi · Apr 6, 2024

ajgringo619 said:
Do you really believe anything you just said? Been using Linux for 20 years and have never experienced any of what you posted. "Properly maintain Linux"??? Come on, now - the Linux update processes are light-years ahead of Windows. "Always something that breaks???" Another whopper. While Windows 11 has gotten much better, it's still much slower to update than Linux.

Yes, I'm using Windows 11 Home as my daily driver, mostly due to my distain of dual-booting and my obsession with gaming performance, where Windows blows Linux out of the water. I love using Hyper-V for my VM testing, and still use a KDE Plasma VM for my main workstation.

Each of these OS platforms have their places.

I'm not talking about the actual update processes themselves, nor am talking about how fast the update processes run. I'm talking about new problems/limitations that will typically arise after the update processes ran, and about how often the only "fix" is to just undo the updates at least until you found a better solution that works. I'm talking about the time and/or effort that it very often takes to find such a better solution that works, and about the negative impact that this very often tends to have on your workflow if you use Linux as your daily driver in the client OS, or desktop OS category not only for everyday basic tasks like surfing the web or using a word processor or etc., but also use it for various kinds of tasks that are a lot more advanced and/or are a lot less common than this.

I am a Java Enterprise software developer. A lot of what I do for work is related to applications that run on RHEL or Oracle Linux, but that's not what I want to discuss on here. Here's a blog article that explains in some reasonable detail why I don't use Linux for my personal hobby type stuff:

Main Linux problems on the desktop, 2023 edition or why Linux sucks on the desktop

itvision.altervista.org

mecanicogolf · Apr 6, 2024

antspants said:
Yeah, I read that Nadella was crapping his pants over SAB

Winuser · Apr 6, 2024

Edwin said:
I don't pretend to know how it all works

I don't even have a clue of how it works. What I do know is that StartAllBack does what I want and I'm going to continue using it for as long as it continues to work.

Winuser · Apr 6, 2024

antspants said:
Yeah, I read that Nadella was crapping his pants over SAB

If that's true, I wonder if MS created a new emoji of Nadella crapping his pants.

It seems that new Emojis is now top priority at MS.

antspants · Apr 6, 2024

Winuser said:
If that's true, I wonder if MS created a new emoji of Nadella crapping his pants. It seems that new Emojis is now top priority at MS.

I read the same thing. One would think that Microsoft would be prioritising changes to Windows so that SAB can work.

Winuser · Apr 6, 2024

antspants said:
I read the same thing. One would think that Microsoft would be prioritising changes to Windows so that SAB can work.

I don't understand why MS doesn't want programs like StartAllBack to work. It frees up their programers so they can work on projects that is important to MS. MS is well covered legally and doesn't have to worry about any problems caused by third party apps. IMHO, A general warning from MS about the possibity of problems caused by a third party customizing program should be enough. To summarize what I mean, MS shouldn't be blocking third party customizing apps.

antspants · Apr 6, 2024

Winuser said:
I don't understand why MS doesn't want programs like StartAllBack to work.

But Winuser, who said they don’t?
It’s just a temp issue and it apparently isn’t affecting release builds, just 24H2?. I’d wager that SAB has reached out to Microsoft and will make changes to SAB accordingly.

Winuser said:
MS shouldn't be blocking third party customizing apps.

They don’t.

And like they have advised. Just rename SAB.exe to SOB.exe and all is good

A Guy · Apr 7, 2024

More from Moonnique at VC (who works for MS BTW)

With Windows 11 / Windows 12 24H2 26100
Microsoft has expanded the list of blocked programs.
So far this includes ExplorerPatcher and StartAllBack.
Both small tools to bring the old taskbar or the old Windows 10 start menu back to light, among other things.

If you want to install one of the two programs after installing it, you will receive a warning.
This is not the first time that Microsoft has specifically added programs to a block list.
This is probably because Microsoft will also remove these old functions from Windows 11 in the near future.

There were first signs in a Canary Insider with an ID, when activated, that these old functions can no longer be accessed.
But fortunately, as always, Microsoft has blacklisted the entire setup name.
For example, if you rename the installer from StartAllBack.. .exe to sab.exe, the installation will start normally again.
It works the same way with ExplorerPatcher.

It may well be that other programs make it onto the list of blocked programs.
Microsoft still has time to fill the list until the general start of Windows 11 24H2 / Windows 12 24H2 in September 2024.

A Guy

neves · Apr 7, 2024

Edwin said:
I call it something else, but..., I'm holdin myself back!!!

It's true, tho.

Just look back at Windows Millennium - where people where hating on Microsoft for bringing so little to the table compared to Windows 98. Thus, they released XP - and the people were happy.

Then with Windows Vista - they tried to do the opposite (and give more) - but people were upset again - "for being to much!"

And then they released Windows 7 - which was perfect for the hardware of that time (which was actually the main issue with Windows Vista = was ahead of its time - so didn't work so well on hardware meant for Windows XP) - and the people were happy again.

And once again, with Windows 8 they tried to show they learn from their mistake - and bring the best of both worlds (both new features and compatibility with the hardware of its time), yet once again - the people were unhappy with the bloatware like appearance of Windows 8 - compared to the clean look of Windows 7 - and slight reduction in performance (well, mostly games complained about this part). And thus they released Windows 10 and the people were happy again...

It's just that... Microsoft evangelist also claimed - that Windows 10 will be the last version of Windows (turning into a service from their own) - a news which spread on every IT News platform at that time. But then came Windows 11 - where once again - Microsoft was trying to prove they learned from their past mistakes and got it right this time (pleasing the general Windows audience). But, the majority were already satisfied with Windows 10 - and kinda tired of changes (changing something that's already working for them). So now, and for the first time in Window's history - Microsoft is trying to sabotage Windows 10, making it unreasonable beyond its EOL (while offering as option - the most expensive extended support) - because the majority still don't wanna let it go... and switch to Windows 11.

Now, even based on what with now so far - Windows 12 does have an audience pleasing potential - while taking A.I. into account (which already renowned as a big change in the IT/Tech industry). But, at the same time.... also kinda looks like a crossroad - between people who are embracing A.I. and looking forward for a Windows with dedicated support (complemented by the latest hardware), and... the people who are sort of tired of changes - while the current performance is already good enough (and so was Windows 10). So hey, who knows... since the upcoming future (rather immediate too) kinda looks like.... a Red pill vs Blue pill type of thing/decision. :woozy: