new build

bobkn said:

There are other considerations, though. A 600W GPU (Some 4090s, most 5090s) would require four 8 pin PCI-E connections. (150W each.) Plus a connection for the 4 sense pins in a 12VHPWR cable.

Click to expand...

There are PSUs that deliver more than 300 watts (around 336 watts or less, depending on the PSU, I think) on the PCI-E connectors. Inside the PSU, it's EPS12V at the PCI-E connectors. The PCI-E cables to handle the 336 watts have an increased cross-section. They are pitgail cables that terminate with two PCI-E connectors on the GPU side. I'm not an expert, this is what I understood after a quick search, and I don't know if it's possible to use these 336-watt PCI-E connectors on the graphics card.


The OP has a PSU that came with two pitgail PCI-E cables that terminate with two PCI-E connectors on the GPU side.

Scannerman said:

Bingo. That is the point.

Click to expand...

Yes, it's safer. I have an RTX 5080, so it should be fine . This is my second system, I don't use it much and I don't play games much.

I chose an Nvidia card because their RTX technology is more powerful than the latest AMD cards. AMD has made progress with RTX, but it's not yet at Nvidia's level. For people who don't need RTX or only need it minimally, the latest AMD cards with PCI-E connectors are a good option.

itsme1 said:

If you removed the shroud you no longer have the graphics card fans!?

Click to expand...

Correct. The shroud + fans are in a safe place. So far this was the only real drawback to the card. I reluctantly purchased it as an "open box" sale. Got it for around $300 CA. Took a careful look at it and had to peel off all the plastic stuff. Fortunately it wasn't baked on and nothing showed any signs of heat, no wear on the contacts, no scratches... Card looked brand new and behaved brand new. Why they would make it so chunky as to take a third PCIe slot baffles me. Huge heat sink on the card anyway. I don't do any intensive gaming so I should be okay with what I have. You can read about it here:

itsme1 said:

There are PSUs that deliver more than 300 watts (around 336 watts or less, depending on the PSU, I think) on the PCI-E connectors. Inside the PSU, it's EPS12V at the PCI-E connectors. The PCI-E cables to handle the 336 watts have an increased cross-section. They are pitgail cables that terminate with two PCI-E connectors on the GPU side. I'm not an expert, this is what I understood after a quick search, and I don't know if it's possible to use these 336-watt PCI-E connectors on the graphics card.

Question - Can anyone explain how two 8-Pin PCIe ports supply 600 watts?

I have spent two full days trying to understand how two 8-pin PCIe connection ports on the ROG Thor 1200P2 Gaming PSU can supply 600 watts to a GPU. The cable that comes with the PSU has one end with two 8-pin connectors and the other end a 12VHPWR connector with markings that say "600 watts."...

forums.tomshardware.com

The OP has a PSU that came with two pitgail PCI-E cables that terminate with two PCI-E connectors on the GPU side.

Click to expand...

Corsair example: Premium Individually Sleeved 12+4pin PCIe Gen 5 12VHPWR 600W cable, Type 4, WHITE/BLACK

But 150W per 8 pin plug remains the standard, AFAIK.

Whether a PCI-E cable with two 8 pin plugs can deliver 150W for each plug safely, I don't know. GPU makers tend to not recommend using a single cable for a GPU with two 8 pin sockets.

bobkn said:

Corsair example: Premium Individually Sleeved 12+4pin PCIe Gen 5 12VHPWR 600W cable, Type 4, WHITE/BLACK

But 150W per 8 pin plug remains the standard, AFAIK.

Whether a PCI-E cable with two 8 pin plugs can deliver 150W for each plug safely, I don't know. GPU makers tend to not recommend using a single cable for a GPU with two 8 pin sockets.

Click to expand...

I don't advise the pig tail method. To be fair, I've never had an issue or a repair involving a negative consequence for doing so and apart from buying a more expensive PSU sometimes one has little choice. I just don't feel comfortable with the idea. 150W is thermal enough for one plug IMO. But I find I'm a bit old fashioned so perhaps my information is dated. I've never worked on anything Gen 5 and I don't own anything Gen 5. By the looks of what I've been seeing in bleeding edge hardware these days I'm not sure I even want to.

bobkn said:

Corsair example: Premium Individually Sleeved 12+4pin PCIe Gen 5 12VHPWR 600W cable, Type 4, WHITE/BLACK

But 150W per 8 pin plug remains the standard, AFAIK.

Whether a PCI-E cable with two 8 pin plugs can deliver 150W for each plug safely, I don't know. GPU makers tend to not recommend using a single cable for a GPU with two 8 pin sockets.

Click to expand...

It's probably not safe. I saw it last Tuesday on a website I just found again:

(...)First, let's be clear that PCI-SIG lists the maximum rating of its 6-pin PCI-e connector at 75 watts, and its 8-pin PCI-e connector at 150 watts. That is the safe rating, and you go any higher than that at your own risk.(...)

This makes me think that the power supply brands/manufacturers have exceeded the PCI-SIG guidelines themselves, and that it might not be safe.

Scannerman said:

Correct. The shroud + fans are in a safe place. So far this was the only real drawback to the card. I reluctantly purchased it as an "open box" sale. Got it for around $300 CA. Took a careful look at it and had to peel off all the plastic stuff. Fortunately it wasn't baked on and nothing showed any signs of heat, no wear on the contacts, no scratches... Card looked brand new and behaved brand new. Why they would make it so chunky as to take a third PCIe slot baffles me. Huge heat sink on the card anyway. I don't do any intensive gaming so I should be okay with what I have. You can read about it here:

ASUS X299 SAGE

So. Six hours and 4 Bios flashes later, I finally manage to get all the RAM to post. This Crucial RAM is the hardest I've ever had to train and I'm not there yet. I'm hanging on by a shoestring coz I lost my bootstrap and did a silly thing: I let Windows 11 reinstall because it died of shock...

www.elevenforum.com

Click to expand...

Yes, it should be fine without demanding games. I think you should monitor the temperatures in case the thermal pads wear out faster without fans. For recent Nvidia RTX graphics card series, third-party manufacturers primarily use enormous heatsinks, sometimes spanning more than three slots, for marketing reasons to allow for overclocking beyond stock (or already slightly overclocked) frequencies and the power limit. These manufacturers also make the cards longer and wider to accommodate their large heatsinks.

The RTX 5090 Founders Edition only takes up two slots.

I could have gotten a Founders Edition 5080 at the euro MSRP, but as I mentioned before, the 5000 series Founders Edition cards are a bit more difficult to disassemble than some third-party cards that simply require removing screws. I ended up getting an ASUS 5080, which takes up 2.5 slots. For my motherboard, up to three slots is fine because it doesn't interfere with the next PCIe slot.

I'll check out your ASUS X299 SAGE thread. I've already glanced at your RESTORATION thread, but only briefly. It was your ThermalTake Level 10 GT case that caught my eye. I find the design nice and modern, and I found some YouTube videos of the case that will explain the specifications, which is what I was doing to find a case for my new build.

i know when I built my machine ~4 years ago, my EVGA 3080 showed how to wire it's 3 pin power. It had a layout saying that a pigtail was okay, but it said that i should hook up that daisy chained connector to one specific plug on the video card if I was going to use one. I did end up using it, and it's been absolutely fine.

The SAGE build will be going into a COOLERMASTER ATCS 840 case. This is a huge case, in some ways larger than the ThermalTake Level 10 GT. Alas, it does not have the airflow that the ThermalTake has. I won't be loading it up with 30 hard drives though so it shouldn't be a problem. The SAGE build will sit under my desk and the Level 10 will sit on top my desk. If airflow does become an issue I can easily mod the case but I really don't wish to do that as this case is a bit of a collectible and highly sought after by niche users. It has some very unique features.

Removing the shroud on the RTX 3070 should not be much of a problem as I'm not a hardcore gamer so that is not a great concern for me. I'll be using it more for video editing. I pretty much have most of the components ordered for it now but I also have two more PCs to tear apart and restore. The demands of family life only leave me so much time for my hobby it seems. As it stands, the SAGE is still on the test bench.

My daughter will be coming home from university soon for a visit and she wants me to go over all of the components with her as she is in her first year of engineering and is desirous of computer engineering. After this I'll be moving it to the CoolerMaster case. :::sigh::: The things we do for love.


X299 SAGE <-- The preview is here. I'll be starting a new thread called ATCS 840 covering this build once I get it in the case.

pparks1 said:

i know when I built my machine ~4 years ago, my EVGA 3080 showed how to wire it's 3 pin power. It had a layout saying that a pigtail was okay, but it said that i should hook up that daisy chained connector to one specific plug on the video card if I was going to use one. I did end up using it, and it's been absolutely fine.

Click to expand...

When did people start calling a PCI-E cable with dual plugs a "pigtail"? That's new to me.

I admit that I know nothing about the pinouts of such a cable. It's possible that the two GPU plugs use different wires. If the wires are coarse enough that little heat is generated in the cable, seems like it should be good.

@Scannerman OK
I'll follow the thread with the new case.

I know that with large cases you have to be careful about the length of the power supply cables, especially the CPU cables that connect to the top of the motherboard, and when the power supply is at the bottom of the case.

itsme1 said:

@Scannerman OK
I'll follow the thread with the new case.

I know that with large cases you have to be careful about the length of the power supply cables, especially the CPU cables that connect to the top of the motherboard, and when the power supply is at the bottom of the case.

Click to expand...

You may be able to get longer cables or extenders at additional cost, but most of us would prefer not to have to deal with that.

itsme1 said:

@Scannerman OK
I'll follow the thread with the new case.

I know that with large cases you have to be careful about the length of the power supply cables, especially the CPU cables that connect to the top of the motherboard, and when the power supply is at the bottom of the case.

Click to expand...

I find with some of the more higher wattage PSUs there is generally adequate cable length. Not always, but usually. Some PSUs are rated for EATX boards.

bobkn said:

When did people start calling a PCI-E cable with dual plugs a "pigtail"? That's new to me.

I admit that I know nothing about the pinouts of such a cable. It's possible that the two GPU plugs use different wires. If the wires are coarse enough that little heat is generated in the cable, seems like it should be good.

Click to expand...

It really depends on how much load is on the wire. I agree that if the wire is a higher gauge it should be safe but to appeal to the vanity of today's builds these cables are made much thinner than they used to be. A pigtail is just a slang term for splicing, essentially. The word is commonly used in the electrical field. This is not to suggest that all pigtails are the same. There are all sorts and some are safer than others.

Scannerman said:

It really depends on how much load is on the wire. I agree that if the wire is a higher gauge it should be safe but to appeal to the vanity of today's builds these cables are made much thinner than they used to be. A pigtail is just a slang term for splicing, essentially. The word is commonly used in the electrical field. This is not to suggest that all pigtails are the same. There are all sorts and some are safer than others.

Click to expand...

If that helps you, your new case is 580 mm hight, mine is 510 mm hight. The CPU cables for my PSU are 75 mm long (+/- 10 mm). These cables aren't directly connected, there are bypasses. 70 mm or slightly less should be fine for the CPU cable, but I don't know about the others.

The CPU cable pass-through holes are located almost at the very top of the case.

itsme1 said:

If that helps you, your new case is 580 mm hight, mine is 510 mm hight. The CPU cables for my PSU are 75 mm long (+/- 10 mm). These cables aren't directly connected, there are bypasses. 70 mm or slightly less should be fine for the CPU cable, but I don't know about the others.

The CPU cable pass-through holes are located almost at the very top of the case.

Click to expand...

I should be good to go as I have already tested it with an ATX board. An EATX would only bring the other connections closer to the PSU. But yeah, it is pretty roomy in that case. I'm a little disappointed with the X299 board I have as it isn't quite as user friendly as my X99. Then again, it could just be the CPU I'm using. Of course Win 11 isn't helping much in this regard and I do concede that Win 7 was a breeze to install and configure on this Gen 7 platform. I'm old and my preferences are a little old fashioned. There's really so much of Win 11 I don't want or need. That is likely a large part of my struggle with this build. At some point I'll get back on it and hopefully this time I'll be able to keep my Linux.