Solved New Computer...So Confused

I'm with @bobkn on this one. While I know you CAN install programs on a secondary drive, I like to keep mine with the OS. My boot drive is only 256gb as well and I probably have many more apps installed than the OP (my C drive is 80gb). There is no problem regarding space and I have the advantage of ssd speed. The OP has Home so isn't it less than 20 gb?
She has a storage drive so why would she want to have all that unused space on C. What else is she going to use all the ssd space for? Use that sucker for all it's worth.

The smaller the used space on C:, the faster the backups and restores.

Ghot said:

The smaller the used space on C:, the faster the backups and restores.

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True.
However, I have about 187GB used on a 1TB M.2 drive. I can image it (to an internal spinner) in less than 10 minutes. It'd take longer to an external drive.

Not exactly a "so what" sort of thing, but I have little motivation to pare down C:.

@Ghot definitely true. But then again putting apps on the storage drive makes it's backup much longer, especially since it's a slower HDD. I spend more time answering one post here than it takes me to backup C. (Yeah, I know, I'm too long-winded.)

bobkn said:

True.
However, I have about 187GB used on a 1TB M.2 drive. I can image it (to an internal spinner) in less than 10 minutes. It'd take longer to an external drive.

Not exactly a "so what" sort of thing, but I have little motivation to pare down C:.

Click to expand...

glasskuter said:

@Ghot definitely true. But then again putting apps on the storage drive makes it's backup much longer, especially since it's a slower HDD. I spend more time answering one post here than it takes me to backup C. (Yeah, I know, I'm too long-winded.)

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You both make very good points. But so do I.
Remember, my drives are set up a bit differently...





I do backup the things I have "installed" on my storage drive.
I use Karen's Replicator to make Disk 2 a "copy" of Disk one.

As for Windows backups, it take me 2.5 mins to make a backup, and 2:05 to restore from one.
On Win 10 and Win 11, I have approx. 36 GB on my Windows partition.

It's not much, but it adds up. I have 10 GB of stuff installed on my F: drive and copied to my J: drive.
This is all I have installed on C: ....

And... my Win 10 install and Win 11 install are the same as well.





These are the only partitions (on Disk 1 and Disk 2), that I don't keep exactly the same with Karen's Replicator.

Janice said:

1 last stupid question: where and what are my "libraries"?

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On Windows 10/11, "Libraries" are an old feature that is disabled by default, as a result they remain hidden from the navigation pane in File Explorer, at least until you decide to turn this feature on. (This feature was introduced with Windows 7 and has now largely been abandoned.)

You shouldn't confuse the Libraries feature with the special folders like Downloads, Documents, Pictures, Music, Videos, etc. that appear in your personal folder. Special folders are a special kind of system folders. Their names, that can appear as folder items shown in File Explorer, do not necessarily match their real names that are stored within the filesystem of the actual storage volume in question. So no, the question of "what are my libraries" is most definitely not a stupid question. Much to the contrary. Special folders can be difficult enough to track down even without people suggesting that the aforementioned special folders are the same as libraries. They're not.

Good morning, Thread. I'm still here. I've been working in spurts because one of my daughters has been hospitalized.

@bobkn My SSD drive is 237 gb. I have 184 gb free.

Dear users, I have no prior knowledge of how to use SSD and HDD drives on the same computer. I have no knowledge of what should go where. I just know that I was told in the past that I couldn't keep large files on a SSD (don't remember why). I have no clue on which drive I should download what. That's why I'm here. Be assured that you know 1000% times more about computer drives than I do.

This is to be the last computer that I own. I just want it set up to run as quickly and efficiently as possible. I'm fully relying on this thread's advise to set it up.

If you'll help with downloading and installing my programs, I promise to go away and leave you alone.

Janice

Janice said:

Good morning, Thread. I'm still here. I've been working in spurts because one of my daughters has been hospitalized.

@bobkn My SSD drive is 237 gb. I have 184 gb free.

Dear users, I have no prior knowledge of how to use SSD and HDD drives on the same computer. I have no knowledge of what should go where. I just know that I was told in the past that I couldn't keep large files on a SSD (don't remember why). I have no clue on which drive I should download what. That's why I'm here. Be assured that you know 1000% times more about computer drives than I do.

This is to be the last computer that I own. I just want it set up to run as quickly and efficiently as possible. I'm fully relying on this thread's advise to set it up.

If you'll help with downloading and installing my programs, I promise to go away and leave you alone.

Janice

Click to expand...

You can install things where ever you'd like. That's the point.
We all have different methods, that we've come to like.

YOU have to decide how YOU want to set up your drives.

Generally, most folks have an SSD for Windows and one or more hard drives (or SSDs) for storage.
There is no right or wrong way to use them. You have to figure out what works for... you.

The one obvious thing we can recommend is to use the SSD as the Windows drive. The SSD is faster.
Windows will benefit from that speed.

Thank you, ALL of you, for the patience, the time, and the trouble you have invested in helping me.

Janice

I have used this to redirect programs and other saved places (New apps will be save to) change to D

This is my thought on moving programs to drive D. I would never move my programs to an HDD. The drive would have to be an SSD before I would even think about it. There is a very good chance that the HDD is only a 5400rpm drive and the programs will take what feels like forever to load.

I do so hope your daughter is OK.

Janice said:

I promise to go away and leave you alone

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But we don't want you to go away. We want you to return again and again just to browse the forum, read all of Brink's excellent tutorials, and ask questions to the rest of us.

Sometimes, questions we get have right and wrong answers or multiple ways of ending up with the same result. For other questions, especially those relating to personalizing one's setup, you'll get as many varied answers as there are users giving them. We all use our computers differently and set them up differently based on what works and is easiest for us. In these cases, there is no right or wrong answer, only personal preferences. We all tend to think the way we do things is the best way when really it's no more than differences of opinion. One person's way of doing things may be right for them, but not the next person. Everyone (me, too) tends to think our way is the best way and we shouldn't do that. When it comes to personalizing we do not know how a poster is going to use his/her system; how much data they will eventually use, what apps they will run on a normal basis,and the size of these apps or any other of many variables..

That said, Janice, you decide for yourself. You know from our advice it can be done 2 ways. Ask someone you know who is knowledgeable about computers. It's easier to make decisions if you can talk it out one on one rather than reading about it. Just ask this person or better yet, ask multiple persons, "Hey, I got this new computer with 2 drives. I've moved my files to my second drive. I have 2 ways of going, I can put my programs with windows or I can put them on the storage drive. You know me and how I use my computer. Help me decide what's best and easiest for me."
Once you choose, come back here and we can give you direct answers on how to do it.

Prayers coming for both you and your daughter. I know it's a difficult time for both of you.

Janice said:

Good morning, Thread. I'm still here. I've been working in spurts because one of my daughters has been hospitalized.

@bobkn My SSD drive is 237 gb. I have 184 gb free.

Dear users, I have no prior knowledge of how to use SSD and HDD drives on the same computer. I have no knowledge of what should go where. I just know that I was told in the past that I couldn't keep large files on a SSD (don't remember why). I have no clue on which drive I should download what. That's why I'm here. Be assured that you know 1000% times more about computer drives than I do.

This is to be the last computer that I own. I just want it set up to run as quickly and efficiently as possible. I'm fully relying on this thread's advise to set it up.

If you'll help with downloading and installing my programs, I promise to go away and leave you alone.

Janice

Click to expand...

184GB is quite a bit of space.

Odds are you can install all of your programs there. That'd give you the best performance.

You could probably have a lot of data there, too. I wonder how large your database files are? I get the feeling that you have received some advice that lacks perspective. In the context of a 256GB drive, a 100 megabyte data file isn't large.

On my PCs, I keep my "libraries" on the C; drive (with the operating system). I have a separate hard drive I use for files that I don't need to access often. Some of the files there are pictures from a digital camera. They can become quite large while being processed. However, they are only accessed once while being loaded into a program, or once again while being saved, so the hard disc is fast enough.

By default, Reserved Storage is enabled on Windows 10/11.
Aside from making reliable backup copies (multiple ones) of all your important data, you only really need to worry about having enough available free space left to install programs/apps you want and to store your files. Sure, the speed difference between an SSD and a HDD also plays a role. So yes, having installed Windows on an SSD is by far the most typical example of how an SSD can make a computer run significantly faster compared to having Windows installed on a HDD so these days usually that's almost like a no brainer.

The same also applies to programs/apps you use, though it doesn't always. For example, if a program takes up 100 MB (megabytes), then this program might still start extremely fast regardless of whether you had installed it on a "slow" 5400rpm HDD, and, even if it turns out that it doesn't, then there's still a good chance that the "slowness" of the HDD in question is not (or it barely is) to blame for this. To elaborate, Windows uses a background service called SysMain. It makes your most frequently used programs and apps load faster by keeping them stored in RAM as long as possible, and does so without causing negative side effects like slowing down some other stuff and/or making various other sacrifices. You have 16 GB of RAM, which is a respectable amount of RAM. After you open/close an app a few times in a row, Windows learns to keep the app in the specific part of your RAM that would otherwise be left unused. So, only when you start doing things that can use up more RAM, that's when the SysMain service becomes less effective at making your most frequently used programs/apps open faster. Even so, it should also be noted that some programs are slow to open, not because opening them causes them to load a lot of data, but because it causes them to process a moderate amount of data in such a particular way that this processing is what's mainly responsible for the delay. That in fact can become the dominant factor, even, if you have a reasonable performing CPU. Basically, it all simply depends─and also it depends on how slow is slow, on whether the slowness bothers you too much. (On when it does, or when it doesn't.)

Some tasks require a file to be loaded entirely in RAM before the processing can begin, some others can process (a) file(s) as chunks, one data chunk after another or as a collection of chunks treating some certain number of them in parallel. So, reading/writing data from/to disk doesn't necessarily have to pause the processing that goes on, data can also be buffered in RAM allowing the processing to remain continuous or thereabout. Similarly, there isn't a linear relationship between how fast a program can be opened and how much storage space the program takes up after it has been installed. Again, there can be situations when the storage device has to wait for the CPU to catch up.

On a side note, an SSD performs generally better if the amount of available free space is ~30% (or higher) of the total capacity of the SSD. I don't recommend to store more data on an SSD than 80% of its capacity unless you really have no other choice, at above 90% it tends to become fairly dramatic and then it causes so much extra wear and tear on the SSD that you probably should consider to avoid using it like that for prolonged periods of time.

Finally, for laptop users the battery consumption can also be among the deciding factors as for what data should best be kept on the SSD instead of the HDD. If you only store infrequently used data on the HDD, then the HDD can sleep frequently saving the battery as a result─a thing to want to consider, among possible other things, if your battery always runs low a lot faster than you would like. To give only one example, playing music files or movie files from the SSD whilst the HDD mostly is sleeping can help to make a difference in this regard. If that's your concern, if you have a collection of media files that is too large for it to be kept entirely on the SSD, I suggest copying [from the HDD to the SSD] only the files you intend to play before playing the copied files, if you have enough free space to make it possible. You can always decide to just delete some of the copies again next, to free up more space on the SSD again so the copies take up extra space only temporarily. The only real downsides are that the copying takes a bit of time and it may take some additional effort to choose which ones you want to copy─and to choose which of the copies you want to delete.

It takes to be a pragmatist to some extent, and usually a bit of tinkering here and there. That we all love to discuss in depth, and beyond, so don't run away please.

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Good evening, Thread.

glasskuter said:

I do so hope your daughter is OK.

Prayers coming for both you and your daughter. I know it's a difficult time for both of you.

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Thank you, @glasskuter. Your kindness and prayers are much appreciated. There is a special comfort in knowing that one is being prayed for.
My daughter is doing much better and being discharged to home tomorrow (and we are very grateful).

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I have read each and every post in this thread. I have reviewed every graphic, read the recommended tutorials, and taken everyone's advice into consideration. I'm humbled by the time, thought and patience extended to me.

I have finished downloading my "old" programs onto my new computer. I decided to load them onto the C drive as suggested more than once. I have 180 gb left on the SSD. Personal files (documents, downloads, music etc) are sitting pretty on the D drive.

I am so happy to be finished with all the house moving!! Now I can get on to learning the new (to me) Windows 11 OS and enjoying my new computer.

Many thanks to ALL of you. I couldn't have done this without you!

Be blessed

Janice (aka LadyJae)

Janice, one other word of advice. You never defrag an ssd. Windows keeps it optimized for you. Defrag is used only on HDDs.

On SSDs, Windows automatically performs a traditional defrag as part of what Microsoft refers to as traditional optimization processes, here:
SSDs wear out faster if defragging them too frequently, but the same also holds true if defragging them less frequently than really is necessary to prevent excessive fragmentation (i.e., fragmentation that is so severe that it actually even holds down performance of the SSD a lot, in spite of the false myth that claims that fragmentation can't slow the performance of SSDs in any way that you may notice). So, that's why Windows treats SSDs with a specific schedule that not only does a retrim (which it does because trim commands can get ignored after the queue), but also (occasionally) does a traditional defrag the important goal of which is specifically to strike a near optimum balance between SSD lifespan and performance. Compared to SSDs, HDDs don't use trim and frequent defragging them can't hurt their lifespan significantly enough to make any real difference in that regard so Windows uses a different type of strategy on them. But nevertheless the old idea that Windows never automatically defrags SSDs is definitely untrue, as Windows already does that by default so you don't have to, which immediately helps to explain the reason why you shouldn't do it yourself, and also you shouldn't try to prevent Windows from doing it. The only real exception to this is Condusiv DymaxIO running on (typically expensive) workstations/servers to further improve SSD optimizations in situations where this improvement factually is worth the financial cost of using this specific 3rd party optimization software solution instead of just letting Windows make some fun.

hdmi said:

On SSDs, Windows automatically performs a traditional defrag as part of what Microsoft refers to as traditional optimization processes, here:

defrag

Reference article for the defrag command, which locates and consolidates fragmented files on local volumes to improve system performance.

learn.microsoft.com

SSDs wear out faster if defragging them too frequently, but the same also holds true if defragging them less frequently than really is necessary to prevent excessive fragmentation (i.e., fragmentation that is so severe that it actually even holds down performance of the SSD a lot, in spite of the false myth that claims that fragmentation can't slow the performance of SSDs in any way that you may notice). So, that's why Windows treats SSDs with a specific schedule that not only does a retrim (which it does because trim commands can get ignored after the queue), but also (occasionally) does a traditional defrag the important goal of which is specifically to strike a near optimum balance between SSD lifespan and performance. Compared to SSDs, HDDs don't use trim and frequent defragging them can't hurt their lifespan significantly enough to make any real difference in that regard so Windows uses a different type of strategy on them. But nevertheless the old idea that Windows never automatically defrags SSDs is definitely untrue, as Windows already does that by default so you don't have to, which immediately helps to explain the reason why you shouldn't do it yourself, and also you shouldn't try to prevent Windows from doing it. The only real exception to this is Condusiv DymaxIO running on (typically expensive) workstations/servers to further improve SSD optimizations in situations where this improvement factually is worth the financial cost of using this specific 3rd party optimization software solution instead of just letting Windows make some fun.

Click to expand...

I can attest to this fact. I have very little writes on my SSD. In two years, my SSD dropped 3 percent. I use a HDD/SSD manager like CrystalDiskInfo. Granted though, I did re-image Windows 10 and 11 several times, I'm sure that's what mostly contributed to the wear.