New Version of ExplorerPatcher

hdmi · May 26, 2022

CapoFantasma97 said:
add on the Start Menu

Instead of lose sleep over the old Win 10 Start Menu, IMO use the Classic Start Menu of Open-Shell (with the Win 7 style option selected). That one was the best choice 12 years ago hands down, and today it still is.

catweazel · May 26, 2022

Hallo,
today on my Win11 22000.708 EP has downloaded the Symbols for the 22000.708 and works gracefully.

kocane · May 26, 2022

Anyone else using this with StartAllBack? For the most part I got no issues, but for some reason the functionality in SAB to always show label on secondary monitor taskbar somehow gets overruled by EP, causing it to revert. Also the context menu lacking the acrylic (or whatever) affect and this odd one, where the close button on taskbar thumbnails looks like this. The last two things I don't really care about but the first is kind of annoying

I know using the two programs at the same time is just asking for trouble but I adore both of them (SWS is a godsend) and would love for them to be more compatible with each other. Perhaps a toggle that completely disables EP modifying the taskbar could be made?

valinet · May 27, 2022

kocane said:
Anyone else using this with StartAllBack? For the most part I got no issues, but for some reason the functionality in SAB to always show label on secondary monitor taskbar somehow gets overruled by EP, causing it to revert. Also the context menu lacking the acrylic (or whatever) affect and this odd one, where the close button on taskbar thumbnails looks like this. The last two things I don't really care about but the first is kind of annoying

View attachment 30108

I know using the two programs at the same time is just asking for trouble but I adore both of them (SWS is a godsend) and would love for them to be more compatible with each other. Perhaps a toggle that completely disables EP modifying the taskbar could be made?

Likewise the SAB dev could be asked to make is program more compatible with EP. As far as I know, SAB warns against installing when EP is in use as well, although I don't really understand why.

The thing is, EP runs WAY sooner compared to SAB in explorer's lifetime. As soon as EP runs, it patches a ton of stuff and then spawns some resident threads for various things, per user config (like SWS, for example). When SAB comes along, it can override EP's patches however it wants, so it has plenty of opportunity to do so, since EP is done by then and SAB can know about it and can see what it does, since I publish the sources for EP. So yeah...

Regarding setting labels on secondary monitor taskbars, I don't understand, if you set it via EP doesn't it work? What is the deal with the glom level (glom = whether the taskbar shows labels or not, that's how it's called internally)? Well, when EP runs an you use the Windows 10 taskbar mode, it redirects the storage for that setting from `HKCU\SOFTWARE\Microsoft\Windows\CurrentVersion\Explorer\Advanced` (the default) to `HKCU\SOFTWARE\ExplorerPatcher` because if you modify the setting at the default location, when you switch back to the Windows 11 taskbar, it will be fu cked up. The new taskbar supports always combine only, but it's thumbnails implementation is just a reskin, I think, of the same old thumbnails provider, or at least shares the logic with it and it is aware of glom levels. So, when you set never combine at the default location, the new taskbar ignores it because it doesn't know how to draw labels, but the thumbnails are generated as if the taskbar was uncombined - what is the difference: thumbnails when labels are shown do not contain the window title, as that would just duplicate the button label. When labels are not shown, the thumbnails contain the window title as well ("Computer" in your screenshot above). Check it out and you will see. This is the reason why I have to redirect the place where Explorer looks when using the Windows 10 taskbar, in order not to mess with the original place that is used and mess the thumbnails when using the 11 taskbar. Now, idk what SAB does when it comes afterwards, maybe it supresses my redirection and then Explorer still looks at the old location where the setting is untouched, idk. To set the glom level, use `TaskbarGlomLevel` and `MMTaskbarGlomLevel` DWORDs in the registry.

Case in point:

With glom set to 0 (always combine)

With glom set to 2 (never combine)

As you can see, the wrong thumbnail are shown, as if the taskbar would still support never combine. That's an omission/bug from Microsoft and is the kind of thing ExplorerPatcher has to correct somehow. That it might conflict with other programs messing around with Explorer as well, yeah, indeed it may.

CapoFantasma97 · May 27, 2022

hdmi said:
Instead of lose sleep over the old Win 10 Start Menu, IMO use the Classic Start Menu of Open-Shell (with the Win 7 style option selected). That one was the best choice 12 years ago hands down, and today it still is.

Windows 10 Start Menu is the best Start design by far. It combines the app list with a handy live tiles design that can be arranged, grouped and sized as you like.

And the floating menu with rounded corners style of ExplorerPatcher makes it look in line with the rest of the OS, it feels like it's native.

valinet · May 27, 2022

CapoFantasma97 said:
Windows 10 Start Menu is the best Start design by far. It combines the app list with a handy live tiles design that can be arranged, grouped and sized as you like.

And the floating menu with rounded corners style of ExplorerPatcher makes it look in line with the rest of the OS, it feels like it's native.

Indeed, the (smooth scrolling) app list combined with an area to pin/store shortcuts to most frequently used apps in a grid, instead of a simple list is what makes this a very good design to me, as well. Too bad they threw it out of the window, and did not even bother to share it with the community (open source) it. Instead, it's neglected in some DLL waiting for removal, such a shame.

kocane · May 27, 2022

valinet said:
Likewise the SAB dev could be asked to make is program more compatible with EP. As far as I know, SAB warns against installing when EP is in use as well, although I don't really understand why.

The thing is, EP runs WAY sooner compared to SAB in explorer's lifetime. As soon as EP runs, it patches a ton of stuff and then spawns some resident threads for various things, per user config (like SWS, for example). When SAB comes along, it can override EP's patches however it wants, so it has plenty of opportunity to do so, since EP is done by then and SAB can know about it and can see what it does, since I publish the sources for EP. So yeah...

Regarding setting labels on secondary monitor taskbars, I don't understand, if you set it via EP doesn't it work? What is the deal with the glom level (glom = whether the taskbar shows labels or not, that's how it's called internally)? Well, when EP runs an you use the Windows 10 taskbar mode, it redirects the storage for that setting from `HKCU\SOFTWARE\Microsoft\Windows\CurrentVersion\Explorer\Advanced` (the default) to `HKCU\SOFTWARE\ExplorerPatcher` because if you modify the setting at the default location, when you switch back to the Windows 11 taskbar, it will be fu cked up. The new taskbar supports always combine only, but it's thumbnails implementation is just a reskin, I think, of the same old thumbnails provider, or at least shares the logic with it and it is aware of glom levels. So, when you set never combine at the default location, the new taskbar ignores it because it doesn't know how to draw labels, but the thumbnails are generated as if the taskbar was uncombined - what is the difference: thumbnails when labels are shown do not contain the window title, as that would just duplicate the button label. When labels are not shown, the thumbnails contain the window title as well ("Computer" in your screenshot above). Check it out and you will see. This is the reason why I have to redirect the place where Explorer looks when using the Windows 10 taskbar, in order not to mess with the original place that is used and mess the thumbnails when using the 11 taskbar. Now, idk what SAB does when it comes afterwards, maybe it supresses my redirection and then Explorer still looks at the old location where the setting is untouched, idk. To set the glom level, use `TaskbarGlomLevel` and `MMTaskbarGlomLevel` DWORDs in the registry.

Case in point:

With glom set to 0 (always combine)

With glom set to 2 (never combine)

As you can see, the wrong thumbnail are shown, as if the taskbar would still support never combine. That's an omission/bug from Microsoft and is the kind of thing ExplorerPatcher has to correct somehow. That it might conflict with other programs messing around with Explorer as well, yeah, indeed it may.

Thanks for the reply. I agree that SAB could just as well be made more compatible with EP but honestly (and this is despite me having given the dev money) there doesn't really seem to be much room for suggestions. I mean, the fact you gave me a reply like this speaks for itself.

In regards to the thumbnails (I should've been more clearer about it) what I was trying to show was actually just the close button looking odd when SAB and EP ran together. It should be mentioned that I run EP in Windows 11 taskbar more, because if I don't I get this search button I can't seem to get rid of. I also made sure that the 'Search' is turned off in the regular settings menu. However it does seem to correct the close button in the thumbnails, but again it's a small price to pay, to be able to use EP.

The other reason for me having left the taskbar style on "Windows 11" in EP was that I figured it meant that it just left the taskbar alone for the most part and that using Windows 10 taskbar in BOTH EP and SAB would complicate things even more.

hdmi · May 28, 2022

CapoFantasma97 said:
Windows 10 Start Menu is the best Start design by far. It combines the app list with a handy live tiles design that can be arranged, grouped and sized as you like.

And the floating menu with rounded corners style of ExplorerPatcher makes it look in line with the rest of the OS, it feels like it's native.

Classic Start Menu offers a wider range of user customizations. In fact I can still open the Win 10 Start Menu by pressing Shift + Win whenever I want (like, each time when I feel nostalgic about my old Nokia Lumia 625 phone, which doesn't happen to me too often, due to what Microsuck did...) because the Controls tab in Open-Shell lets me set it up in this manner.

With the Win 7 style option, Classic Start Menu shows a little triangle arrow to the right of programs that, when clicked or hovered on, pops up default actions and/or recent items for the selected program in a separate column or expansion menu. In addition to this, custom groups like folders and special folders can be added to the 2nd column. Expansion menus are easy to navigate, as they don't automatically collapse if you move your mouse pointer into them by moving it diagonally past the little triangle arrow as opposed to moving it horizontally through the little triangle arrow. In short, it feels like it's sensible and logical. Which it is. There's also an 'All programs' option there, BTW, and the familiar Search box at the bottom. What's more, the pinning/unpinning just works, which it does without requiring to jump through burning hoops (nor requiring to feel like playing a Sierra adventure like how Ivo used to gleefully describe).

As for the floating menu and rounded corners. Stop. The Menu Look tab in settings contains both Horizontal and Vertical position offset, and, the menu's corners have always been rounded. Stop. This has been the case for way more than a decade. Full stop.

To each their own...

valinet · May 28, 2022

hdmi said:
Classic Start Menu offers a wider range of user customizations. In fact I can still open the Win 10 Start Menu by pressing Shift + Win whenever I want (like, each time when I feel nostalgic about my old Nokia Lumia 625 phone, which doesn't happen to me too often, due to what Microsuck did...) because the Controls tab in Open-Shell lets me set it up in this manner.

With the Win 7 style option, Classic Start Menu shows a little triangle arrow to the right of programs that, when clicked or hovered on, pops up default actions and/or recent items for the selected program in a separate column or expansion menu. In addition to this, custom groups like folders and special folders can be added to the 2nd column. Expansion menus are easy to navigate, as they don't automatically collapse if you move your mouse pointer into them by moving it diagonally past the little triangle arrow as opposed to moving it horizontally through the little triangle arrow. In short, it feels like it's sensible and logical. Which it is. There's also an 'All programs' option there, BTW, and the familiar Search box at the bottom. What's more, the pinning/unpinning just works, which it does without requiring to jump through burning hoops (nor requiring to feel like playing a Sierra adventure like how Ivo used to gleefully describe).

As for the floating menu and rounded corners. Stop. The Menu Look tab in settings contains both Horizontal and Vertical position offset, and, the menu's corners have always been rounded. Stop. This has been the case for way more than a decade. Full stop.

To each their own...

Again, let’s keep this thread focused to ExplorerPatcher related things. To each their own philosophy. No one contested one alternative over the other and it’s good there’re choices. Usually, one goes for what fits them best, tries to make up with the options offered, and it’s hard for a program to cater to all tastes, that’s really why I prefer, when having the time and opportunity, to make my own thing (sws for example). Personally, I don’t use Classic Start Menu as it doesn’t allow one to show the app list by default, at least not in a non-hacky way, the list doesn’t scroll smoothly, on the right it only displays folders etc. I mean, to be honest, I prefer the Windows 10 Start menu to the Windows 7 one which many regard as the gold standard, and yeah, even though it doesn’t have many options, what it offers works out for me just fine.

Even with EP, despite it growing quite a bit compared to my initial plans, it mostly contains things I use on a daily basis; I am not a fan of including much else, as it’s hard to maintain, the software got pretty large as it is.

hdmi · May 29, 2022

valinet said:
Again, let’s keep this thread focused to ExplorerPatcher related things.

Last time I checked, you're the one who had suggested to use ExplorerPatcher in combination with other things like Battery Mode and Open-Shell. Not me. So then, it most definitely is related to that... whether you still like that fact or not. Either way, the suggestion to use it with Open-Shell actually does make sense, for reasons that should be completely obvious by now.

valinet said:
To each their own philosophy.

That's what I said.

valinet said:
No one contested one alternative over the other and it’s good there’re choices. Usually, one goes for what fits them best, tries to make up with the options offered, and it’s hard for a program to cater to all tastes,

Open-Shell allows the Win 10 Start Menu to be used as the default. So it most definitely is easy for Open-Shell to cater to all tastes, which I can prove, and can prove it like so:

valinet said:
that’s really why I prefer, when having the time and opportunity, to make my own thing (sws for example). Personally, I don’t use Classic Start Menu as it doesn’t allow one to show the app list by default,

It most definitely does allow. Just alter the settings like shown in my above screenshot, and, next, configure ExplorerPatcher to show the Win 10 Start Menu with the app list by default.

valinet said:
at least not in a non-hacky way,

Last time I checked, ExplorerPatcher was the superlative of "in a hacky way". Ergo, the assertion that ExplorerPatcher can do this in a non-hacky way is what I like to describe as... baloney in its absolute finest, purest way.

valinet said:
the list doesn’t scroll smoothly,

See above. Open-Shell doesn't in any way force you to use that one. The fact that so many people are too afraid/lazy to play with Open-Shell settings to find out what features are like is not my fault...

EDIT: you can actually even choose to hide the 'All Programs' button altogether if that's what you prefer (Open-Shell settings ➜ 'Main Menu' tab ➜ All Programs style ➜ Hidden).

valinet said:
on the right it only displays folders etc.

Yes. Thankfully, it does. I'll open Firefox if I want to read the news.

valinet said:
I mean, to be honest, I prefer the Windows 10 Start menu to the Windows 7 one which many regard as the gold standard, and yeah, even though it doesn’t have many options, what it offers works out for me just fine.

Even with EP, despite it growing quite a bit compared to my initial plans, it mostly contains things I use on a daily basis; I am not a fan of including much else, as it’s hard to maintain, the software got pretty large as it is.

I never asked you to add a new feature in ExplorerPatcher that can make it fetch my slippers. I can fetch them myself even though fetching them makes me feel tired. It's fine!

Thanks! :)

Anixx · May 29, 2022

I have just tried the Win11 start menu under Classic theme. It seems it does not work, but there is some hope. It appears as a black rectangle, but when closing it it briefly appears as it should, correctly for about a second.
The Win10 start menu does not appear at all.

Anixx · May 29, 2022

Well, by clicking on the start button I even managed once to have the Win11 start menu to be fully working. Appearing correctly.
It seems, if to click on the black rectangle and slightly move the mouse, the menu appears. It is immersive, so not classic-looking. But the basic functionality, I think, can be fixed as it basically works, only appearing as black rectangle before mouse click.

valinet · May 30, 2022

I was saying to keep the discussion focused, meaning that this should not become a thread where you fight over what Start menu people use. Or at least I don't see it that way. I came here from time to time to check relevant stuff, not read opinions about software preferences of some. Open a blog for that or use some other thread, please. Or at least, that's how I saw it; if it's wrong, my apologies, same way I apologize for my off topic posts as well. Anyway, you clearly decided to ignore that, not the first time this happens (not from you, talking in general). And people still wonder why I closed the forums on GitHub, a site for software development where 99.9% of the talk was about entirely different things. I don't understand the reason for your posts - there's no need to convince anyone or justify yourself. Everyone uses whatever works out for them. It's like attacking the 'always combine' crowd just because Microsoft decided to f up the 'never combine' one.

hdmi said:
Last time I checked, you're the one who had suggested to use ExplorerPatcher in combination with other things like Battery Mode and Open-Shell. Not me. So then, it most definitely is related to that... whether you still like that fact or not. Either way, the suggestion to use it with Open-Shell actually does make sense, for reasons that should be completely obvious by now.

Please, there's no need for unsolicited attacks; where do you see me trying to impose what to use, eh? You're free to use the software alongside whatever you'd like, I never changed my stance, only you (maybe) lived with that impression. I still like developing in the open and free software as well, despite many of you vigorously trying to prove why choosing the opposite model might actually work out better.

hdmi said:
It most definitely does allow. Just alter the settings like shown in my above screenshot, and, next, configure ExplorerPatcher to show the Win 10 Start Menu with the app list by default.

So your 'recommendation' is to have OpenShell get out of the way and still use the EP-patched OG Start menu for my purpose. So, what was really the point of your statement? Please don't answer.

hdmi said:
I never asked you to add a new feature in ExplorerPatcher that can make it fetch my slippers. I can fetch them myself even though fetching them makes me feel tired. It's fine!

Good for you. Again, the reason you felt attacked by the statement is beyond my comprehension, but whatever.

Good luck everyone! Signing out for now.

Anixx · May 30, 2022

The Win10 menu works under both Win11 and Classic themes but for some reason under the both themes the desktop outside the menu becomes black. I wonder if this is experienced only by me.

Spartan · May 30, 2022

@valinet Are you the developer of ExplorerPatcher? I just made a small donation. Thank you so much for your hard work and constant bug tracking and updates. This tool is our savior for using Windows 11. I can never use an OS with the combined taskbar buttons as I have many windows open and like to be able to single-click a window and quickly open it rather than having to click twice to expand them and figure out which Window I want to open.

Megahertz · May 30, 2022

I just found a way to get win 10 start back and then on it I used Open shell.
I used ExplorerPatcher
Win 11 21h2 - 22000.675

Spartan · May 30, 2022

@valinet Not sure if this is a bug or not but if I set the taskbar style to Windows 11, the combine taskbar icons set to never doesn't do anything even after restarting explorer, the taskbar icons are always combined.

Anixx · May 30, 2022

Valentin, is it possible to add an option to get directly to this screen when invoking the "This PC"'s properties from the context menu, as it was in Windows95-XP?

Currently there are two options, to call Settings app or the Control Panel. Possibly add a third one (for people who wants to adjust the pagefile size, computer's name, etc)?
This would be in line with other desktop icons whose properties usually look like similar dialogs.

Anixx · May 30, 2022

Some applications under Windows 11 use curled corners and big shadows even when running under Windows Classic theme.

These include Telegram Desktop and FileLocator Lite.

I found that this can be mitigated either by

* Setting compatibility layer to Windows 8 on the compatibility tab.

or

* Setting the compatibility layer to Win8RTMVersionLie via registry (it is less invasive than Win8RTM layer)

or

* Setting the global environment variable __COMPAT_LAYER with value Win8RTMVersionLie: