Poll: Is the release of Windows 11 on October 5 too soon?

Bree · Sep 2, 2021

ashleyg said:
With Windows 11 being released on 5-Oct, I wonder whether the free upgrade from Win 7 to Win 10 will still be available?
(there will be people who haven't gone up to Win 10 yet).

That is a very good question.

Long ago I deliberately set aside a couple of Win7 machines that have never been upgraded to W10 and have no digital licence for W10. I'll be in a position to test that.

ashleyg · Sep 2, 2021

Bree said:
That is a very good question.

Long ago I deliberately set aside a couple of Win7 machines that have never been upgraded to W10 and have no digital licence for W10. I'll be in a position to test that.

Cheers Bree. I have a few hangers-on in my circle. Look forward to any feedback you may be able to provide us.

BunnyJ · Sep 2, 2021

With the update in the dev channel it's obvious that MS is getting the bugs out and patches in. SO.. no.. they should have it ready by the 5th of Oct

Bree · Sep 2, 2021

BunnyJ said:
With the update in the dev channel it's obvious that MS is getting the bugs out and patches in. SO.. no.. they should have it ready by the 5th of Oct

With build 22000.176 not only now in the Release Preview ring, but also released for Commercial Preview, seems MS thinks this is the one.....

Commercial previews for Windows 11 and Windows 10 version 21H2 now available

Commercial organizations can now explore and validate Windows 11 and Windows 10, version 21H2 that will be released later this year. Today, we released Windows 11 and the Windows 10, version 21H2 feature update for commercial preview. Organizations enrolled in the Windows Insider Program for...

www.elevenforum.com

Haydon · Sep 2, 2021

barman58 said:
I'm not sure that the TPM is the main issue preventing possible uptake of Windows 11, the PTT and ftpm has been a standard inclusion for some time - I've seen mention of it going back to 2013. The processor cutoff however is more of a problem as not only does it encompass the acceptable chips being a lot more modern in design but being a more major item to upgrade to the required standard, often needing Motherboard replacement in addition to the processor.

There is no simple upgrade a like the one with the TPM via a standard (ish) module into a pre-existing Header, when looking at processor upgrade

Yeah, the processor has the shortest notice of all the W11 system requirements, 4 years until EOL of previous OS, and only going back 3 years from the time of the notice. The resulting 7 years look more like MacOS than Windows life cycles, perhaps for the better.

cereberus · Sep 2, 2021

Yeah too soon by about 5 years to get to a point where it is ok, then ditch it for W12.

Haydon · Sep 2, 2021

Wasn't W10 the last version of Windows ... Windows is a service, not a product ... the 10 will never go higher ... oh well

Bree · Sep 2, 2021

Haydon said:
Wasn't W10 the last version of Windows ...

No. Microsoft never said that. Jerry Nixon made an off-the-cuff remark at the Ignite conference in 2015, that's all.

According to the transcript of the session, Nixon’s comment was more of a throwaway line, one that he literally referred to as a segue...

. ...But give Nixon a break, too: He made an enthusiastic, throwaway comment that ended up being understood as company policy.

Why is there a Windows 11 if Windows 10 is the last Windows?

If Windows 10 was supposed to be the last version of Windows, why is there a Windows 11? Well, because Windows 10 was never officially the last version of Windows.

www.pcworld.com

Haydon · Sep 2, 2021

Just being a bit cynical in the flow of things

BTW Bree, I re-read your comments about Backup and Restore (Windows 7) what exactly was deprecated and what was not, and now I have both that and FH on each 1 of the 3 backup media that I have, it comes free anyway (well, more chores). I could wish that BitLocker (in the secure configuration that I use it) wasn't that difficult to deal with, but that is obviously unwise.

Bree · Sep 3, 2021

Haydon said:
BTW Bree, I re-read your comments about Backup and Restore (Windows 7) what exactly was deprecated and what was not

Specifically, Microsoft said that 'System Image Backup (SIB) Solution' was deprecated. They made no mention either way about the files and folders backup. It's one of many features they are no longer developing.

Microsoft said:
System Image Backup (SIB) Solution We recommend that users use full-disk backup solutions from other vendors.

Deprecated features in the Windows client - What's new in Windows

Review the list of features that Microsoft is no longer actively developing in Windows 10 and Windows 11.

docs.microsoft.com

Haydon · Sep 3, 2021

Yeah, I realize that the W7 app is not particularly fresh, but it will still be there in W11, so I mucked around a lot with it (in W10) and it never failed. Best is perhaps to check every backup for actual restore, even if it is just a cursory point check.

This is OT, mea culpa, just wanted to let you know at the spur of the moment.

johnlgalt · Sep 3, 2021

johnlgalt said:
(Replying to the OP / poll) Absolutely. They are rushing to get it out the door, and when the general public starts to get wind of it, and then realizes that they cannot install it the normal, easy way that they've been getting WIndows 10 updates, folks are gonna get demonstably upset. Add to that the fact that there are still way too many issues that have no seeming fix, and the fact that we're talking literally 35 days to release, and I say, yes, it is too early.

Your honor, I submit to the bench Exhibit A:

Why can an ad break the Windows 11 desktop and taskbar?

A new promo message for Microsoft Teams broke the Windows desktop shell and the taskbar for Windows 11 Insider users. Why can cloud services break Windows PCs?

www.ctrl.blog

The problem wasn’t caused by an update delivered through Windows Update. (That would have been more understandable.) Instead, it was caused by a small file downloaded by a Windows component called IrisService. Iris is a part of Windows Spotlight (the Bing wallpaper of the day; and tips, promotions, and suggestions on the Lock screen).

Based on the Microsoft-provided workaround, I narrowed the problem down to a registry key that contained a serialized JSON blob. The blob contained an advertisement for Microsoft Teams. The messaging and imagery in the promotion were identical to the panel you get when you press the Windows key + C on a Windows account not already set up with Teams. It’s unclear if it’s this exact promotion, however.

There’s an enormous elephant in the room, though: how Microsoft could have let this happen? Yes, this is a beta build for early adopters. Yes, rough edges and productivity losses are expected.

However, that doesn’t answer why the Windows shell was so poorly architected in the first place. How come that it would stop responding just because of one failed cloud service? It’s not a crucial cloud service either, and the computer became useless because of a single JSON blob with an advertisement.

Ads in Windows are important to Microsoft. They’re nowhere to be found on the priority lists of Microsoft’s customers. We don’t want them there at all! Millions of people depend on Windows every day, and it simply needs to be more robust than this.

Windows 11 is due for release in October. However, I say it needs to go back on the drawing board. It needs to be rearchitected to decouple it from the cloud. The design requirement is clear: unimportant cloud-dependent systems must be isolated from the core operating system so that they can’t bring the Windows shell to its knees.

Dru2 · Sep 3, 2021

Windows 11 is due for release in October. However, I say it needs to go back on the drawing board. It needs to be rearchitected to decouple it from the cloud. The design requirement is clear: unimportant cloud-dependent systems must be isolated from the core operating system so that they can’t bring the Windows shell to its knees.

Source: Why can an ad break the Windows 11 desktop and taskbar?

What a load of hogwash!!! Sounds to me like the author fears progress.

The rest of his article is just drivel in acting like accidents never happen. Maybe he should try producing an OS for the masses.

Another click bait article with nothing to say.

BunnyJ · Sep 4, 2021

Dru2 said:
Source: Why can an ad break the Windows 11 desktop and taskbar?

What a load of hogwash!!! Sounds to me like the author fears progress.

The rest of his article is just drivel in acting like accidents never happen. Maybe he should try producing an OS for the masses.

Another click bait article with nothing to say.

The author doesn't site any facts to base his claims on. It was a hit job story against MS with no facts. Like,, why did you conclude a piece of advertising cause so many issue to some devices and not all of them. Think about it, everyone would have received the same add and only some have the issue.

And the idea that people that installed the update early have the issues is silly., I installed it right away and I haven't had a single issue

It simply seems to me someone made a claim and everyone is making the same claim now. Click bait heaven

SlicEnDicE · Sep 4, 2021

There may be some truth to this story, because I have already Teams activated and running, thus I don't need to see any ads...while others haven't activated this feature at all.

But I digress...
No issues here on any builds on non-supported and almost supported hardware.

BunnyJ · Sep 4, 2021

It would have been nice if there were facts to back up the claims in the storie(s). When I just see claims with no facts I disregard the claims

SlicEnDicE · Sep 4, 2021

Fair point...MS is a bit too silent sometimes. They however acknowledged there is an issue with exactly that particular reg key. Whatever it does or did not do, I don't care as long as my device keeps running as well as it has done for the past 3 weeks.

barman58 · Sep 4, 2021

All I can say is ..

Absence of evidence is not always evidence of absence

Without empirical evidence we cannot make any informed judgments

jvickers · Sep 4, 2021

barman58 said:
Without empirical evidence we cannot make an informed judgments

Hear, hear! Thus the basic reasoning for my signature line.

johnlgalt · Sep 4, 2021

Facts.

1) The guy who wrote the article. Daniel Aleksandersen

You might know him better at this site, though: da2x - Overview

This isn't his first foray into Microsoft programming. Here is another place you can find him. Daniel Aleksandersen

2) The fix came from Microsoft itself.

Announcing Windows 11 Insider Preview Build 22000.176

UPDATE 7:10PM PDT: Recently, Windows Insiders in both the Dev and Beta Channels began reporting that Start and Taskbar were unresponsive and Settings and other areas of the OS wouldn’t load. We quickly discovered an issue with a se

blogs.windows.com

Announcing Windows 11 Insider Preview Build 22449

UPDATE 7:10PM PDT: Recently, Windows Insiders in both the Dev and Beta Channels began reporting that Start and Taskbar were unresponsive and Settings and other areas of the OS wouldn’t load. We quickly discovered an issue with a se

blogs.windows.com

UPDATE 7:10PM PDT: Recently, Windows Insiders in both the Dev and Beta Channels began reporting that Start and Taskbar were unresponsive and Settings and other areas of the OS wouldn’t load. We quickly discovered an issue with a server-side deployment that went out to Insiders and canceled that deployment. If you were impacted by this issue, you can use the following steps to get back into a working state on your PC.

Step 1: Use CTRL-ALT-DEL and choose to open Task Manager.

Step 2: Choose “More details” at the bottom of Task Manager to expand Task Manager.

Step 3: Go to “File” and choose “Run new task”.

Step 4: Type “cmd” in the “Open” field.

Step 5: Paste the following (everything in bold):
reg delete HKCU\SOFTWARE\Microsoft\Windows\CurrentVersion\IrisService /f && shutdown -r -t 0

Step 6: Hit enter, and then your PC should reboot. After rebooting, everything should be back to normal.

That is the exact fix I used.

3) Bleeping Computer reached out to Microsoft - who said they have nothing more to share.

Microsoft breaks Windows 11 Start Menu, Taskbar with Teams promo

Microsoft accidentally broke the Start menu and taskbar on systems of Windows Insiders after pushing a Teams promo to the desktops of users running Windows 11 preview builds.

www.bleepingcomputer.com

Pretty sure if it was a hit piece on Microsoft, Microsoft would have responded, at the very least, to the allegations that were not true.

4) Further analysis. There is this nice, and much longer, Reddit post that you can read that goes into the details of the issue at hand:

https://www.reddit.com/r/Windows11/comments/ph1i7k

Next, we look at the kind of entries found under that IrisService registry key that MS said deleting would fix, to see if they give us any clues. On my system, I have 48 entries, each of which has data in the same format. It seems to be making requests to the https://arc.msn.com/v4/api/selection API, submitting a bunch of information about my system, such as OS, CPU, etc., and getting back a JSON response. All of them except one show an error of "Demand source returns error (Name: GN_ps, Error: No eligible content.)" in the response.

The one that didn't return an error is interesting because of the timing. It's the only one with a "lastupdated" timestamp from the first date that I moved my clock forward to that actually fixed the issue. So when I set my clock ahead, and things went back to normal, that IrisService remote call had succeeded.

This IronBlade posted before Daniel did, in fact. He is even salty about it a bit, because daniel seems to be getting all the credit. But the work he put into it shows that Daniel didn't write a hit piece but reported actual facts.

So call it what you want - but the facts don't lie.