Poll on Backup software

SlicEnDicE said:

So nobody would backup the MFT and it's backup? How else would you ensure 100% integrity between incremental backups? The full Journaling would be gone and is totally unacceptable in server environments.

SMH!

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You specifically asked how to back up only the changed files. So no, nobody would back up the whole MFT excepting only those who would do what you didn't ask.

hdmi said:

You specifically asked how to back up only the changed files. So no, nobody would back up the whole MFT excepting only those who would do what you didn't ask.

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Did I? You think me mentioning NTFS specifically was an accident?

SlicEnDicE said:

@hdmi

jfyi, NTFS is a database in its core. No need to have an extra layer DB on top of that.

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I already explained with simple logic why at least some additional metadata would be required as part of the backup to be able to make the distinction between deleted files and unchanged files. It could be something as simple as a filelist, but it's going to be very much necessary to be able to correctly perform the restore.

SlicEnDicE said:

Did I? You think me mentioning NTFS specifically was an accident?

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Yes, you did. You asked for a backup of the changed files that are on an NTFS partition, not a backup of the NTFS partition.

hdmi said:

I already explained with simple logic why at least some additional metadata would be required as part of the backup to be able to make the distinction between deleted files and unchanged files. It could be something as simple as a filelist, but it's going to be very much necessary to be able to correctly perform the restore.

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Are you forgetting the context here? We are talking about Macrium vs other backup solutions and why the incremental backup is bigger for Macrium. Why would They implement something new, when EVERYTHING you need is already built into NTFS? JFYI, my MFT is about 1.6GB in size atm. that is about the difference between the size of the images for Macrium and other backup solutions when it comes to incremental backups. Coincidence?

Why do some people get MFT Corrupt error when doing Macrium backups? Is this also coincidence?

SlicEnDicE said:

Are you forgetting the context here? We are talking about Macrium vs other backup solutions and why the incremental backup is bigger for Macrium. Why would They implement something new, when EVERYTHING you need is already built into NTFS? JFYI, my MFT is about 1.6GB in size atm. that is about the difference between the size of the images for Macrium and other backup solutions when it comes to incremental backups. Coincidence?

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I'll tell you about the context. The context is that Macrium backs up a ton of useless data that isn't required to accomplish this specific task of backing up only the changed files. And yes, why would they implement something new that would effectively fix that problem, when they could instead just sell you an old box of mostly thin air? lmao

hdmi said:

I'll tell you about the context. The context is that Macrium backs up a ton of useless data that isn't required to accomplish this specific task of backing up only the changed files. And yes, why would they implement something new that would effectively fix that problem, when they could instead just sell you an old box of mostly thin air? lmao

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So you're saying MS-DOS COPY command would be all we need with a nice UI and a lot of buttons to press? Data is more than your files...I doubt Nick spent 17 years of his life creating a better solution than there already is just to cheaply copy some files over and call it the day.

SlicEnDicE said:

So you're saying MS-DOS COPY command would be all we need with a nice UI and a lot of buttons to press? Data is more than your files...I doubt Nick spent 17 years of his life creating a better solution than there already is just to cheaply copy some files over and call it the day.

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Yes of course data is more than your files. But it doesn't change the fact that you asked about copying only your changed files, not about copying your data. Nor does it change the fact that a simple test reveals the truth about Macrium backing up a ton of useless data if using it to create an incremental backup of a partition, a feature that the free version of Macrium does not actually even have, which brings me back to my original point. Why pay hard currency to be able to back up needless data when there already exist free options elsewhere that let you effectively avoid this whole problem anyway in the first place? Just because it won in the poll, doesn't also mean that it doesn't still suck after you got off your high horse and you stopped being too lazy to run your own tests. That obvious.

hdmi said:

Yes of course data is more than your files. But it doesn't change the fact that you asked about copying only your changed files, not about copying your data. Nor does it change the fact that a simple test reveals the truth about Macrium backing up a ton of useless data if using it to create an incremental backup of a partition, a feature that the free version of Macrium does not actually even have, which brings me back to my original point. Why pay hard currency to be able to back up needless data when there already exist free options elsewhere that let you effectively avoid this whole problem anyway in the first place? Just because it won in the poll, doesn't also mean that it doesn't still suck after you got off your high horse and you stopped being too lazy to run your own tests. That obvious.

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It is top in the poll because it is very reliable.

cereberus said:

It is top in the poll because it is very reliable.

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Every backup solution is reliable... until it turns out that it isn't always.

But is every backup solution robust enough?

One could argue that for some yes, but for others no way.

I remember when we talked with Nick about Macrium and someone asked, "Why is not this feature in the free version?" and his response was "We can't give everything for free, can we?" followed with a laugh.

I don't even think Macrium was ever intended to be free in the first place. But it was a good strategy to get to be known for a robust solution.

hdmi said:

Every backup solution is reliable... until it turns out that it isn't always.

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My duplicators are the only things I have found 100% reliable.

You must have a lot of duplicators available to handle EIDE, SATA and M2... what's your PRIMARY (or only) duplication interface?

Froggie said:

You must have a lot of duplicators available to handle EIDE, SATA and M2... what's your PRIMARY (or only) duplication interface?

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Tape to tape over 9600baud serial connection

RD Mercer said:

My duplicators are the only things I have found 100% reliable.

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I'd say the bootable Rescue Media ISO of ATIH 2021 is still reasonably close to a duplicator. If or when I want something slightly more "robust", I'll use AccessData FTK Imager.

Froggie said:

You must have a lot of duplicators available to handle EIDE, SATA and M2... what's your PRIMARY (or only) duplication interface?

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I only use M.2 and Sata drives, I have both duplicators for those, anything else? All my old EIDE’s, I left them in the cave when I moved out.

RD Mercer said:

I only use M.2 and Sata drives, I have both duplicators for those, anything else? All my old EIDE’s, I left them in the cave when I moved out.

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"SATA III duplicator"

SlicEnDicE said:

But is every backup solution robust enough?

One could argue that for some yes, but for others no way.

I remember when we talked with Nick about Macrium and someone asked, "Why is not this feature in the free version?" and his response was "We can't give everything for free, can we?" followed with a laugh.

I don't even think Macrium was ever intended to be free in the first place. But it was a good strategy to get to be known for a robust solution.

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The free version has been around for many years. I do not buy the argument it was never intended to be free.

Getting rid of free versions (or severely limiting them) is regrettably just a sign of the times.

Very few of my productivity tools are free versions. The only free tools I use tend to be the small one-off tools like easybcd or github tools like driverstore.

Re. that question about feature in free Macrium Reflect version, that was me. I asked why free version did not have incrementals when rival tools like Easeus did have it.

My contention was (and still is) if people "defect" to use a (reliable) rival free version because of its features, then it is very unlikely they will "return to the fold" at a future date.

I believe many bought the paid version of Macrium Reflect because they were impressed with reliability of free version (plus they benefited indirectly from Macrium Reflect's excellent support).

It rather saddens me the amount of Reflect Bashing that is going on now and it is mostly by people (imo) have a sad outlook on life that they want quality software but are not prepared to pay for it.

However, when a company offers a free version and a premium paid version, I really assess if the premium features are worth it (especially if I already have such features in another package).

For Example:

Macrium Reflect - yes
MS 365 - yes
Minitool Partition Wizard - no (as I have a paid Easeus Partition Manager licence).

The judgement one has to make is "Do I get value for the cash outlay?".

cereberus said:

It rather saddens me the amount of Reflect Bashing that is going on now and it is mostly by people (imo) have a sad outlook on life that they want quality software but are not prepared to pay for it.

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Please stop making me laugh while I'm trying to enjoy my Belgium chocolate... it gives brown specks all over my Logitech K800 Wireless Illuminated keyboard.