Problems Creating Recovery Drive On Win 11 Pro Computer

Transcendence72 said:

Just to clarify. You took a 64 GB USB Flash/Thumb drive. Connected it to a computer. Launched the Disk Management, erased all the partitions that were there and then used it to create a Windows Recovery Drive (i.e. C:\Windows\System32\RecoveryDrive.exe). It was a success and now the USB Flash/Thumb drive which was 64 GB in capacity is now shown as 31.9 GB. Is this correct?

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Hi Transcendence72 -
Not quite. In the end, I wound up getting a 128GB PNY flash drive, had screwed around with it, and was locked out after formatting it with the recovery drive utility, which would not allow me to copy the system files to this drive. The recovery program formatted this drive to a FAT32 31.9 GB drive with a partition. One of the members said to format it to NTFS and I did that. Then the drive showed NTFS with a partition, but the drive said there were 0 bytes free. I went into disk management, right-clicked in the drive and made a simple format there and was able to clear all the formatting out to NTFS, and it removed the partition, and the drive was all formatted to NTFS. It said there was now an empty drive. It would still not allow me to make a complete recovery drive, with system files. I was, however, able to make a Windows Bootable Installation Media drive out of it through that program. Checking the flash drive afterward, it showed it was now formatted to FAT32, with 31.9GB! That is where I am at right now. It is possible my recovery drive app is corrupted, and needs repair before trying to make a recovery drive. I can at least get into my computer in case the hard drive fails. I hope that clarifies this.

archfoto said:

I was, however, able to make a Windows Bootable Installation Media drive

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I suggest you augment that with
Backup and Restore Device Drivers - ElevenForumTutorials
You can store the backup anywhere you like including in a folder on that installation USB.
having a driver backup would save you a lot of time, effort & foul language when reinstalling.

By the way, if you look at that installation USB in Disk management you will see that there is a lot of unallocated space. You can also format that as an additional drive to use for your own files [but bear in mind that, if you created a new installation USB on the same USB for the next Windows version using the standard MCT method, those files would be lost].


Denis

archfoto said:

Hi Transcendence72 -
Not quite. In the end, I wound up getting a 128GB PNY flash drive, had screwed around with it, and was locked out after formatting it with the recovery drive utility, which would not allow me to copy the system files to this drive. The recovery program formatted this drive to a FAT32 31.9 GB drive with a partition. One of the members said to format it to NTFS and I did that. Then the drive showed NTFS with a partition, but the drive said there were 0 bytes free. I went into disk management, right-clicked in the drive and made a simple format there and was able to clear all the formatting out to NTFS, and it removed the partition, and the drive was all formatted to NTFS. It said there was now an empty drive. It would still not allow me to make a complete recovery drive, with system files. I was, however, able to make a Windows Bootable Installation Media drive out of it through that program. Checking the flash drive afterward, it showed it was now formatted to FAT32, with 31.9GB! That is where I am at right now. It is possible my recovery drive app is corrupted, and needs repair before trying to make a recovery drive. I can at least get into my computer in case the hard drive fails. I hope that clarifies this.

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the reason for formatting the drive in NTFS is that there is a limit of 32GB for the partition size in FAT32
this way when the recovery drive is created the recovery software will format 32GB of the drive for the recovery partition in FAT32
the rest of the drive is basically free space but that space cant be used.

best of luck Steve ..

XxXxX said:

that space cant be used

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Yes it can. You can use it to store files.
What makes you think otherwise?


Denis

Try3 said:

Yes it can. You can use it to store files.
What makes you think otherwise?


Denis

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because my 64GB recovery USB wont let me
best of luck Steve ..

XxXxX said:

the reason for formatting the drive in NTFS is that there is a limit of 32GB for the partition size in FAT32
this way when the recovery drive is created the recovery software will format 32GB of the drive for the recovery partition in FAT32
the rest of the drive is basically free space but that space cant be used.

best of luck Steve ..

Click to expand...

You can do two partitions on the Rescue drive, one Fat 32 for the boot able files ( so it can boot as UEFI) and one NTFS for all kind of data

XxXxX said:

that space cant be used

Click to expand...

Try3 said:

Yes it can. You can use it to store files.

Click to expand...

XxXxX said:

my 64GB recovery USB wont let me

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Steve,

I've just tested to make sure it is still possible.
It is.
- I made a Recovery drive on a 64GB USB.
- I used Disk mgmt to set up & format the unallocated space on my Recovery drive.
- I used File explorer to copy a file onto it just as a demonstration that it was writable.
- I booted from the Recovery drive and it still worked correctly.
I hope this test is useful for you.

Later on, I used Minitool disk wizard to extend the Recovery drive's Fat32 partition across the whole of the 64GB USB.
- I made a folder on it for my own files and created a dummy file in there to check it was writable. Naturally, as in any Fat32 partition, I'm limited to storing files <4GB.
- I hid the original top-level Recovery drive folders-files to reduce the chances of my accidentally tampering with them when using my own files on the USB. This does not affect their function. I do the same thing on my Windows installation USBs with the result that I have never accidentally moved, deleted or modified any of the Windows files on them
- I booted from the Recovery drive and it still worked correctly.

This is not a recommendation for Recovery drives, just a demonstration.
I do not use Recovery drives.
When Recovery drives were first introduced a decade ago, they were not capable of restoring to just the OS partitions of a disk, they overwrote the whole disk. That would be a problem on the computers in which I have partitioned off a D:\ drive for my data files. As far as I am aware, that limitation stands so I never use Recovery drives.
My first line of defence is the combination of a system image with the imaging utility's boot disk together with file backups of my data drives.
After that, I'd fall back on
- an installation USB, and
- copies of the [MSUpdateCatalog] latest Windows Cumulative update & latest .Net cumulative update, and
- my driver backups, and
- file backups of my data drives.


All the best,
Denis

I have just completed a further test of that Recovery drive. See my last post's addn para beginning Later on ... . Denis

Try3 said:

By the way, if you look at that installation USB in Disk management you will see that there is a lot of unallocated space. You can also format that as an additional drive to use for your own files [but bear in mind that, if you created a new installation USB on the same USB for the next Windows version using the standard MCT method, those files would be lost].


Denis

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@archfoto and @Try3/Denis please do not mind me posting some additional questions over here.

So @Try3/Denis if we have additional space we cannot add additional windows images using MCT on the same USB Flash/Thumb drive? So for example if I wanted to create an image for Win 11 24H2 and 25H2 on two different partitions but on a single USB Flash/Thumb drive it would not work?

Try3 said:

- I hid the original top-level Recovery drive folders-files to reduce the chances of my accidentally tampering with them when using my own files on the USB. This does not affect their function. I do the same thing on my Windows installation USBs with the result that I have never accidentally moved, deleted or modified any of the Windows files on them
- I booted from the Recovery drive and it still worked correctly.

Click to expand...

Will marking all the files and sub folders and contents of the sub-folders as system and read-only do the same? i.e. prevent accidental deletion of the files? The reason that I ask is that I was thinking about this and realize that after a few months I might not see any files in the USB Flash/Thumb drive and assume that the recovery drive is empty or it has been corrupted. Ideally I would like to have a ready-only media or a setup like Micro SD card with the read only physical switch.

Try3 said:

When Recovery drives were first introduced a decade ago, they were not capable of restoring to just the OS partitions of a disk, they overwrote the whole disk. That would be a problem on the computers in which I have partitioned off a D:\ drive for my data files. As far as I am aware, that limitation stands so I never use Recovery drives.
My first line of defence is the combination of a system image with the imaging utility's boot disk together with file backups of my data drives.
After that, I'd fall back on
- an installation USB, and
- copies of the [MSUpdateCatalog] latest Windows Cumulative update & latest .Net cumulative update, and
- my driver backups, and
- file backups of my data drives.


All the best,
Denis

Click to expand...

Does this limitation, i.e. during the recovery it will overwrite everything on the drive irrespective of the partition layout, still exist for the Windows Recovery Drive even in Win 11 25H2?

Thanks for sharing the 4 items. It have given me something to chew on.

Transcendence72 said:

we cannot add additional windows images using MCT on the same USB

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MCT & the Recovery drive procedure reformat & rewrite the entire USB regardless of anything else you've stored there.

Transcendence72 said:

Will marking all the files and sub folders and contents of the sub-folders as system and read-only do the same? i.e. prevent accidental deletion of the files?

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I've never tried that. It seems a bit over the top to me. I don't know if there would be any adverse consequences [but there are none from merely hiding the top level files-folders].

Transcendence72 said:

I might not see any files in the USB Flash/Thumb drive and assume that the recovery drive is empty or it has been corrupted. Ideally I would like to have a ready-only media or a setup like Micro SD card with the read only physical switch

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Well, I've never had any problem with hiding them.
I label my USBs.
I assume they have not been corrupted. I always keep the installation ISO [for use in Repair installs] and it would be simple to remake an installation USB.

Transcendence72 said:

Does this limitation, i.e. during the recovery it will overwrite everything on the drive irrespective of the partition layout, still exist for the Windows Recovery Drive even in Win 11 25H2?

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Nobody seems to know.
I asked in the tutorial thread but nobody seems to have tested for this. Perhaps everybody else has the same level of interest in Recovery drives that I have.


Denis

Try3 said:

Nobody seems to know.
I asked in the tutorial thread but nobody seems to have tested for this. Perhaps everybody else has the same level of interest in Recovery drives that I have.


Denis

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i have recently made two recovery drives for mine and my wifes computers
they were made on 64GB USB stick drives and all contents on the USB drives was erased.

best of luck Steve ..

XxXxX said:

i have recently made two recovery drives for mine and my wifes computers
they were made on 64GB USB stick drives and all contents on the USB drives was erased.

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Steve,

The issue the OP asked about [that we had been discussing earlier here or in one of his other threads] was about restoring with a Recovery drive.
I told the OP that when Recovery drives first started they could not restore to a selected partition. They would overwrite the entire disk.
I don't know if that has changed or not. I asked in the tutorial thread and nobody there said they knew either.


All the best,
Denis

Try3 said:

Steve,

The issue the OP asked about [that we had been discussing earlier here or in one of his other threads] was about restoring with a Recovery drive.
I told the OP that when Recovery drives first started they could not restore to a selected partition. They would overwrite the entire disk.
I don't know if that has changed or not. I asked in the tutorial thread and nobody there said they knew either.


All the best,
Denis

Click to expand...

apologies my miss-understanding
i cant give you an answer because i have never had need to use the recovery drives

so i shall leave it there, sorry about that
best of luck Steve ..

Instead of a MS rescue drive why don't you use a modified Win PE with many maintenance software s?
I did created my own using this threads:
or
Instead of creating your own, you can download one created by Bob.Omb (Modified Win10PE v4.98)
It has a collection of free ware software s including Macrium Reflect 8 that will allow you to build drive and partitions backup images.


I have my modified Win PE on a 2G Fat32 partition and on a NTFS I have many installation files, including Win 11 installation files, both partitions on a 64G pen-drive.
I also created a 2G Fat32 partition on my data HDD so I can also boot the modified Win PE to make some maintenance on my system.

When i want to backup my system i reboot into DISM++ and create a WIM file which i then copy to a windows install ISO on a USB stick, that way I’m back up exactly where i was before the brown stuff hit the fan.

Rollback_Jockey said:

When i want to backup my system i reboot into DISM++ and create a WIM file which i then copy to a windows install ISO on a USB stick, that way I’m back up exactly where i was before the brown stuff hit the fan.

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Very interesting.
Please explain
1 Can Dism still split that up into <4GB chunks the way it can for normal InstallISO wim files?
2 Does it make the InstallUSB into an equivalent of a fully up to date normal InstallISO wim file?
3 Can that InstallUSB do both Repair installs & Clean installs like a normal InstallUSB?
4 Does the Dism++ wim contain just Windows, like a normal wim, or is it an image of the whole C:\ drive including installed applications?
5 Is there a guide to using Dism++ for this job?

Denis

Transcendence72 said:

So for example if I wanted to create an image for Win 11 24H2 and 25H2 on two different partitions but on a single USB Flash/Thumb drive it would not work?

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1. Put the 24h2 installation files on one ntfs partition

copy boot.wim from the 24h2 installation media\souces folder onto the fat32 partition, You can rename it to 24h2boot.wim

add a bcd entry to the bcd store on the fat32 partition pointing at the 24h2boot.wim you just copied to the fat32 partition.

2. Put the 25h2 installation files on a separate ntfs partition

copy boot.wim from the 25h2 installation media\souces folder onto the fat32 partition, You can rename it to 25h2boot.wim

add a bcd entry to the bcd store on the fat32 partition pointing at the 25h2boot.wim you just copied to the fat32 partition.

You would get boot menu with whatever descriptions you gave them to select whichever you want

Here is an example of the bcd entries

In this example the 25H2boot.wim is in the sources folder

device ramdisk=[boot]\sources\25H2boot.wim,{7619dcc8-fafe-11d9-b411-000476eba25f}

osdevice ramdisk=[boot]\sources\25H2boot.wim,{7619dcc8-fafe-11d9-b411-000476eba25f}



In this eample the 24h2boot.wim is on the root of the fat32 partition ,so the bcd entries must point at it

device ramdisk=[boot]\24H2boot.wim,{7619dcc8-fafe-11d9-b411-000476eba25f}
osdevice ramdisk=[boot]\24H2boot.wim,{7619dcc8-fafe-11d9-b411-000476eba25f}





When you boot one those and run setup.exe it will scan all partitions for the matching media souces folder

Try3 said:

Very interesting.
Please explain
1 Can Dism still split that up into <4GB chunks the way it can for normal InstallISO wim files?

Click to expand...

On Dism ++ I only saw a conversion from Wim to ESD but it won't fit on a Fat32 partition. You can convert the install.wim created ito multiples Install.swm using MS dism or move \sources to a NTSF partition and then create a \sources with only boot.wim on the Fat32 partition

Try3 said:

2 Does it make the InstallUSB into an equivalent of a fully up to date normal InstallISO wim file?

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I don't think Dism++ creates a boot able drive.
From what I understood fromRollback_Jockey. he boots an Win PE, creates a wim image of the current Windows partition, rename it as install.wim and then replace the \souces\install.wim on a Win 11 USB installation drive.
To restore he does a clean install using that Win 11 USB installation drive.

Try3 said:

3 Can that InstallUSB do both Repair installs & Clean installs like a normal InstallUSB?

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I think it can

Try3 said:

4 Does the Dism++ wim contain just Windows, like a normal wim, or is it an image of the whole C:\ drive including installed applications?

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I think it does only create a Windows partition image. The other partitions will be created during the "Clean Install"

Try3 said:

5 Is there a guide to using Dism++ for this job?

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The https://www.chuyu.me/Document link doesn't work

Try3 said:

Denis

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Luiz,

Thanks.
1 I routinely use Dism to split my wim files into Fat32-sized chunks. I've never created a wim file myself so am unsure about it - for all I know, Dism can only splice Windows Installation ISO wims into chunks not the ones created by Dism++.
2 I do appreciate that it's necessary to stick the wim file within something else to make it bootable. I'd have a Fat32 InstallationUSB ready and just copy revised wim files [well, svm files] onto it - which is all I do at the moment anyway.
3 OK
4 I've managed to find some online comments about the wims created by Dism and they refer to the wims as being like system images i.e. wims of the entire OS partition.
- If so I could consider them as an alternative to my Acronis True Image backups. I realise I'd have to make images of my ancillary partitions as well [or finally get around to studying the forum posts I've seen about rebuilding each of those manually]. I think, on the face of it, that Dism-created wim files are more of an interruption since I'd have to boot into an InstallationUSB to use its Dism 'externally' but it would still be worth considering [I can carry on working while I'm making my Acronis True Image system images].
- If not they are just about equivalents of the standard wim plus the latest Cumulative update & Net update files [which I always have ready anyway since I download once to run on each of my computers]. This would make them just a bit of extra work with no particular benefit.
5 I could not find any guide to Dism++ either. I appreciate that it's just a convenience, just a front end for Dism itself, but I'd feel happier if I could have a guide. Otherwise, I'd have to study the many, many guides to Dism instead.


All the best,
Denis

If the bcd entries are too difficult there is another way.

If you have a 25h2 installation usb stick then you could place the 24h2 install.wim somewhere on the usb stick. Boot the media in the usual way and then use cmd prompt and dism to apply the image from the 24h2 install.wim

If the dism commands are too difficult you could use JFX winntsetup.
It can be unzipped onto the usb stick.
Navigate to it from booted media





OK the next window the defaults are fine