Problems using the Back up and Restore (Windows 7) feature in Windows 11

scott784 said:

Thanks for any replies here about imaging software and my experience using Window's built in feature.

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Hi @scott784
I use exclusively W7 Backup for over 10 years now with 3 generations laptops to make monthly my image files, backups and to restore systems. W7, W10 and now Windows11 with a Core i7 10th gen processor. never ever had issues or errors, also often use W7 Backup to find personal files that were backed up from my older laptops (Vista, W7, W10). You are doing something wrong, a bad drive or have a bad system file.

FrankW said:

I use exclusively W7 Backup for over 10 years now with 3 generations laptops to make monthly my image files, backups and to restore systems. W7, W10 and now Windows11....

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While the files part of 'Backup & Restore (Windows 7)' wasn't explicitly mentioned, the System Image Backup part was deprecated by Microsoft four and a half years ago. They told us then to stop using it and switch to a 3rd-party solution. For me that was Macrium Reflect Free.

Microsoft said:

System Image Backup (SIB) Solution
We recommend that users use full-disk backup solutions from other vendors.

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Bree said:

While the files part of 'Backup & Restore (Windows 7)' wasn't explicitly mentioned, the System Image Backup part was deprecated by Microsoft four and a half years ago. They told us then to stop using it and switch to a 3rd-party solution. For me that was Macrium Reflect Free.

Features removed or Deprecated in Windows 10 Fall Creators Update

Some interesting changes. Https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/...ll-creators-up

www.tenforums.com

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Hi Bree
I know the story is posted ad nauseam on many tech forums by the Macrium buffs but I have no problems with W7 Backup & Restore and will continue using it. If the program is that bad why has Microsoft it still in Windows 11 (their flagship OS)??

FrankW said:

I have no problems with W7 Backup & Restore and will continue using it. If the program is that bad why has Microsoft it still in Windows 11 (their flagship OS)??

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It is still included purely so that you can still restore files from any older backups you may have.

I am very familiar with it's system imaging too I used it extensively before switching. I am also very familiar with all it's little quirks.

When it works it's OK, but it is temperamental and easily broken. The most common error is the dreaded "Windows cannot find a system image on this computer" message just when you need it the most. Google that message and you'll find many examples, here is just one of them....

https://answers.microsoft.com/en-us...em-image/41342a6f-ece5-46e1-a4fc-b0b3e1cfb290

CornishRattler said:

Plug in your drive, open Macrium - other tasks - create rescue media and the option to place it on your drive will be there

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Another approach is to create an iso, mount it as drive and copy files to CD using OPs preferred method of copying files to a CD.

This is how I used to do it when I lived in Bedrock (same street as Fred).

Nowadays I would always use a usb drive.

FrankW said:

Hi Bree
I know the story is posted ad nauseam on many tech forums by the Macrium buffs but I have no problems with W7 Backup & Restore and will continue using it. If the program is that bad why has Microsoft it still in Windows 11 (their flagship OS)??

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FrankW said:

Hi Bree
I know the story is posted ad nauseam on many tech forums by the Macrium buffs but I have no problems with W7 Backup & Restore and will continue using it. If the program is that bad why has Microsoft it still in Windows 11 (their flagship OS)??

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If it works for you, fine.

However, a more salient point is you increase backup reliability if you create two independent backups from different sources.

I found Macrium Reflect to be far more reliable than W7 method, but even then I make a backup with AOMEI now and then as insurance.

My point is it does not have to be an either/or decision.

In simple terms "Do not put all your eggs in one basket" is always sound advice.

Is this old hoary chestnut still doing the rounds. Just use whatever works for you - but DO take backup and regularly test that restores actually work too.

Just because a Backup gives a note that it's completed without error doesn't mean that restore will always work flawlessly too -- so always have more than one set of media for critical and important stuff.

For smallish stuff - especially "archive type material" that doesn't change much storing it on the cloud is safe and reliable these days if you chose a decent Cloud provider - reasonably cheap too.

Both Ms and Google have decent amounts of reliable, secure cloud storage available at roughly similar costs and those who are on Office/365 get a decent amount free.

I pay around 1.50 EUR a month for One Drive stand alone price - 100GB - well worth it for what I use it for. I don't have Office 365 but Office LTSC 2021 so not eligible for the plans included with Office/365 which if you have that product seem very reasonable. I have really fast full fibre internet and as my main Windows OS is only around 28 GB when imaged with macrium storing it on the cloud is just fine for me. I know it won't get lost or overwritten if I need it.

Cheers
jimbo

I've been using Macrium Reflect since I posted this thread in May. It's very easy to use, and just works! I would highly recommend Macrium Reflect to others. Of course, as cereberus said, best to also have another backup method as well. And Cloud storage is good these days.

In this video, i will guide you on how to create and restore an image backup of Windows operating system.

I did a couple of walkthrough posts with screenshots showing wbadmin restore years ago. Can t remember exactly where those posts are , sevenforums and eightforums probably.

I might still have the pics . MS have added daily scheduling option to wbadmin in win11.

It goes something like this from winpe:

X:\Users\Default>wbadmin.exe GET VERSIONS -backuptarget:N:


The times of the backups displayed are based on the time zone of the current
operating system that you are using.
The time zone being used is (GMT -00:00) GMT Standard Time.
Backup time: 12/28/2013 9:40 PM
Backup target: Fixed Disk labeled linux(L: ):)
Version identifier: 12/28/2013-21:40
Can recover: Volume(s), File(s), Application(s), Bare Metal Recovery
Snapshot ID: {7355ad13-3bee-4d43-a9e3-256cc36ea2fa}


X:\Users\Default>wbadmin.exe GET ITEMS -version:12/28/2013-21:40 -backuptarget:N:


Volume ID = {5a9f2e3a-5666-11e3-9a0f-806e6f6e6963}
Volume '350mb', mounted at Z: at the time the backup was created
Volume size = 350.00 MB
Can recover = Full volume

Volume ID = {29fd7507-7002-11e3-88cb-806e6f6e6963}
Volume 'Win7x64', mounted at C: at the time the backup was created
Volume size = 39.93 GB
Can recover = Full volume

Application = Registry
Component = Registry (\Registry)


X:\Users\Default>WBADMIN START RECOVERY -version:12/28/2013-21:40 -itemType:Volume -items:c: -backuptarget:N:
-recoverytarget:H:

Retrieving volume information...
You have chosen to recover volume(s) c:
from the backup created on 12/28/2013 9:40 PM to a different location, H:.
Warning: You have chosen to recover a full volume. This will delete any
existing data on the volume you recover to, even if the operation is canceled
or fails. Before you continue, make sure that this volume does not contain
and data that you might want in the future.

Do you want to continue?
[Y] Yes [N] No

Bree said:

It is still included purely so that you can still restore files from any older backups you may have.

I am very familiar with it's system imaging too I used it extensively before switching. I am also very familiar with all it's little quirks.

When it works it's OK, but it is temperamental and easily broken. The most common error is the dreaded "Windows cannot find a system image on this computer" message just when you need it the most. Google that message and you'll find many examples, here is just one of them....

https://answers.microsoft.com/en-us...em-image/41342a6f-ece5-46e1-a4fc-b0b3e1cfb290

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Hi Bree,

Likewise I can also share “horror” stories about non-Windows Backup software, plenty posted......

My qualms with 3rd party BU software stems from 2018 when Windows10 still had these pesky VSS issues also with external BU apps that was (partly) fixed in 2019. I bought an external 4 TB HDD in 2018: Seagate Backup Plus, that was pre-loaded with (free) Macrium reflect. Issues I had with Seagate’s Dashboard, Marcrium Reflect and Windows10 were unsurmountable to the point of crashing and losing some data (backed up). When I complained to Macrium Reflect I was told that as a non-premium user I was not entitled to any support! I then reformatted the Seagate external drive, restored my Windows10 OS, reinstalled lost apps and files from CD and previous W7 backups and vowed never to touch 3rd party backup software again.

FrankW said:

Hi Bree,

Likewise I can also share “horror” stories about non-Windows Backup software, plenty posted......

My qualms with 3rd party BU software stems from 2018 when Windows10 still had these pesky VSS issues also with external BU apps that was (partly) fixed in 2019. I bought an external 4 TB HDD in 2018: Seagate Backup Plus, that was pre-loaded with (free) Macrium reflect. Issues I had with Seagate’s Dashboard, Marcrium Reflect and Windows10 were unsurmountable to the point of crashing and losing some data (backed up). When I complained to Macrium Reflect I was told that as a non-premium user I was not entitled to any support! I then reformatted the Seagate external drive, restored my Windows10 OS, reinstalled lost apps and files from CD and previous W7 backups and vowed never to touch 3rd party backup software again.

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So, if at first, you don't succeed - give up?

You are blaming 3rd party apps on Windows issues.

There are loads of backup tools - AOMEI, Easeus, Acronis, Paragon.

Backup tools are only as reliable to the reliability of the underlying installation.

cereberus said:

So, if at first, you don't succeed - give up?

You are blaming 3rd party apps on Windows issues.

There are loads of backup tools - AOMEI, Easeus, Acronis, Paragon.

Backup tools are only as reliable to the reliability of the underlying installation.

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No, I am just not using 3rd party software for anything, not for AV (use MS Defender), not for File Explorer, not for Cleaner (use Storage Sense), use only Edge, Office and Acrobat, don't use add-ins, never force updates (just wait till it arrives), never touch BIOS or delete Windows system flles, never been an Insider, never tinker with my drivers or Windows Services/Task Scheduler/Registry and use W7 Backup. I have Vista, W7 and W10 still on my previous laptops to run an old program, to test Outlook/Yahoo or browse old files and e-mails, would not dream using Linux/Ubuntu or Dual Boot, love Windows 11, never crash or freeze/hang my system. The only thing I do sometimes is stopping some Event channels in the Registry for Event errors that annoy me. I don't want a SSD (use Fast Startup) happy with my 1TB Seagate HDD. I have very little issues with Windows, no more than reported by other OS users. But I have done many of these things in the past and learned a lot from it, I am also not a gamer or write code just the average Windows user.

FrankW said:

My qualms with 3rd party BU software stems from 2018 when Windows10 still had these pesky VSS issues also with external BU apps that was (partly) fixed in 2019.

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Backup & Restore (Windows 7) requires VSS to be functional too. If you have VSS issues then you will have problems backing up. Any system imaging of a running Windows OS requires VSS, whether it's MS or 3rd party imaging software.

I have literally lost count of the number of system images I have made and, more importantly, restored. I currently have eight machines, all of which are imaged regularly, and most of which have been restored from time to time.

The most frequently imaged/restored is my test machine, System Two in my Ten Forums specs. That machine has images for all versions of W10, from 1507 up to 21H2, plus Windows 7. Whenever I need to support version-specific questions over on Ten Forums I will restore the appropriate version. In addition, routinely every Patch Tuesday each of the currently supported versions is restored, updated, then imaged. In all, across all my machines the number of restores I have done must be well into three figures by now.

From 2015 to 2018 I used Backup & Restore for that. From 2019 to the present I have used Macrium Reflect (Free initially, a few years back I bought Home licences for my main machines in their Black Friday sale).

So I can say that I do have in depth experience of using both. It had always been a struggle to keep Backup & Restore working reliably. In my experience it's temperamental/fragile, at best. I cannot recall ever having had a failure with Macrium Reflect.

Any system imaging of a running Windows OS requires VSS, whether it's MS or 3rd party imaging software.

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No, some have their own snapshot drivers.

SIW2 said:

No, some have their own snapshot drivers.

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True but most do use VSS.

AOMEI allows either iirc.

Of course, if you backup from winpe mode, snapshot drivers are not needed at all.

I am not knocking Macrium or other BU software on the market other than Seagate's Dashboard 2018 (that was a disaster). But I find it a bit hollow that some posters on this largest (and best) Windows forum are plugging 3rd party apps (while bashing windows). IMHO if you have a Windows 11 PC (factory configuration) connected with W11 compatible devices you don't need any 3rd party software to use Windows 11 to its fullest extent (excluding gaming, technical or customized applications) and BTW VSS is working fine in Windows 11; as I stated before I never had issues with W7 Backup & Restore but had almost no need to restore from external image files either: I just used the internal System Restore app in Windows 10 a few times between 2015-2018 after editing the Registry, installing bad software or deleting a system file. When MS decides to discontinue W7 BU & Restore in Windows I may well buy a trusted BU licence like Macrium Reflect or use the Cloud like Apple is doing to backup and restore.

FrankW said:

I am not knocking Macrium or other BU software on the market other than Seagate's Dashboard 2018 (that was a disaster). But I find it a bit hollow that some posters on this largest (and best) Windows forum are plugging 3rd party apps (while bashing windows). IMHO if you have a Windows 11 PC (factory configuration) connected with W11 compatible devices you don't need any 3rd party software to use Windows 11 to its fullest extent (excluding gaming, technical or customized applications) and BTW VSS is working fine in Windows 11; as I stated before I never had issues with W7 Backup & Restore but had almost no need to restore from external image files either: I just used the internal System Restore app in Windows 10 a few times between 2015-2018 after editing the Registry, installing bad software or deleting a system file. When MS decides to discontinue W7 BU & Restore in Windows I may well buy a trusted BU licence like Macrium Reflect or use the Cloud like Apple is doing to backup and restore.

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Since Microsoft recommends using a third party for system images, backup and restore, why would I not follow Microsoft's advice?

NavyLCDR said:

Since Microsoft recommends using a third party for system images, backup and restore, why would I not follow Microsoft's advice?

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Believe that is a rhetorical question? Similar recommendations were made for anti-spyware, AV, Media Player, encryption and VPN software that does not mean that the average windows user has to follow all that.

FrankW said:

I find it a bit hollow that some posters on this largest (and best) Windows forum are plugging 3rd party apps (while bashing windows).

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FrankW said:

Similar recommendations were made for anti-spyware, AV, Media Player, encryption and VPN software that does not mean that the average windows user has to follow all that.

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Who's bashing Microsoft? We are just following Microsoft's own recommendation, first announced in 2017. Surely you'd agree the average user should follow Microsoft's recommendations?


As far as I'm aware Microsoft have not recommended any third party anti-spyware, AV, Media Player, encryption or VPN.