Rufus: The Reliable USB Formatting Utility

johnlgalt · Oct 13, 2023

OP edited with latest Stable and Beta release changelogs and links.

hsehestedt · Oct 13, 2023

For me, the reason for wanting to try to get tasks done without third-party utilities is just pure curiosity. I want to know as much as I can about Windows, and part of that is just a curiosity to see if a particular task could be accomplished without other utilities. It's just that I am often surprised how much functionality is already available.

By no means would I ever suggest not using third-party utilities. I just like to point out other ways to accomplish a task when they are available.

antspants · Oct 13, 2023

hsehestedt said:
For me, the reason for wanting to try to get tasks done without third-party utilities is just pure curiosity. I want to know as much as I can about Windows, and part of that is just a curiosity to see if a particular task could be accomplished without other utilities. It's just that I am often surprised how much functionality is already available.

By no means would I ever suggest not using third-party utilities. I just like to point out other ways to accomplish a task when they are available.

We all have certain preferences, I am glad for the diversity. It gives me options reading other peoples preferences and I appreciate it.

hsehestedt · Oct 13, 2023

antspants said:
We all have certain preferences, I am glad for the diversity. It gives me options reading other peoples preferences and I appreciate it.

Bingo! Excellent summary. I like having choices.

Wynona · Oct 13, 2023

hsehestedt said:
Bingo! Excellent summary. I like having choices.

Choices are good . . . we used to have lots more choices than we do now.

When Windows 10 was released, I made a conscious decision to use the new Settings Menu and learn everything I could before going out there looking for a solution that I might already have in Windows.

Because I had a problem with my taskbar being hidden by something or other (can't remember what now), I needed it to be on top of my screen, but MS took that choice away from me. So, I tried Explorer Patcher and (I think) Start All Back. I also wanted QuickLaunch back! The end result was that I didn't like the way EP kept getting trashed with almost every Windows Update. There was a learning curve I didn't like either.

Yeppers, in the end, my original problem disappeared and I can now paste what I use most on my taskbar. So, in the end, it's just easier to find a way to do what I want in Windows. However, that said, if need be, I will definitely use a third party app.

So, I will accept the best solution I can find, be it built into Windows or out there in Third Party App land.

hdmi · Oct 14, 2023

johnlgalt said:
Disagree. But hear me out.

If a person advocates readers only using built-in utilities, that is one thing. I agree with you wholeheartedly in your statement.

But when a person freely admits that they, themselves, have a penchant desire to avoid using 3rd party utilities, it is in no way binding on anyone else, and because of the admission of the fact that this is the way that they do it should never be taken as a mandate that everyone else should also do this.

Just because an expression is in no way binding on anyone else, doesn't necessarily also mean that it can't be part of stigmatization. By being repeatedly vocal about adhering to relentless avoidance, it also is possible to create an aura of negativity in such a particular way that it will undoubtedly increase the chance of others copying the behavior, which may cause it to spread and gain more traction especially among those specific people who live in a bubble. It also can happen subconsciously, though.

johnlgalt said:
That's like saying I enjoy driving my 2007 Infiniti M35 because of its great V6. That does not equate to "I think everyone reading my post should only be driving a 2007 Infiniti M35" in any way, manner, shape, or form, and anyone who does take it that way needs to go back and read more carefully. Read the words for what they are, and less for what you think they mean.

One of the main important reasons why stigmatization often works great for those who stigmatize is exactly because, due to cognitive bias, people are naturally inclined to read words for what people think the words mean. When they read words, people are not always consciously aware that they are thinking about what the words mean. To gain such awareness, people often must think first about whether what they're thinking is about what the words mean, which is commonly thought to be "a little too much thinking". People who stigmatize don't necessarily always do it because they intend to cause some kind of harm, but they can stigmatize unkowingly by using words that may still influence others.

johnlgalt said:
As for why a person would make such an admission - personal preference is a great place to start. Self-developed methods and tools is another.

One thing that comes from using built in tools is that you don't have a reliance on a tool that might not always be available to you at any given moment.

Microsoft does not in any way guarantee that the built-in tools of Windows will be available to you at any given moment. Case in point, Windows features are breaking all the time, it literally can take centuries for Microsoft to fix them, and Microsoft are deleting features at a rate that would sometimes appear like it could be multiple times faster than you can drive your car with the V6 engine.

johnlgalt said:
Another is that you get to learn the inner workings of they system, making you able to troubleshoot things more easily

The use of 3rd party utilities does not really prevent me from learning the inner workings of the system. To the contrary, being able to compare 3rd party utilities with the built-in ones lets me learn additional details about the various many shortcomings that are related directly to the inner workings of the system.

johnlgalt said:
, but also, if you're the type like I am, you simply enjoy learning and committing to memory how this can be done without any need to downloading anything from anywhere.

Of course. But learning this can also be done regardless of whether you use 3rd party utilities.

johnlgalt · Oct 14, 2023

hdmi said:
Just because an expression is in no way binding on anyone else, doesn't necessarily also mean that it can't be part of stigmatization. By being repeatedly vocal about adhering to relentless avoidance, it also is possible to create an aura of negativity in such a particular way that it will undoubtedly increase the chance of others copying the behavior, which may cause it to spread and gain more traction especially among those specific people who live in a bubble. It also can happen subconsciously, though.

Neither does it mean it is guaranteed to be a part of the stigmatization. But your post implied that it is.

hdmi said:
One of the main important reasons why stigmatization often works great for those who stigmatize is exactly because, due to cognitive bias, people are naturally inclined to read words for what people think the words mean. When they read words, people are not always consciously aware that they are thinking about what the words mean. To gain such awareness, people often must think first about whether what they're thinking is about what the words mean, which is commonly thought to be "a little too much thinking". People who stigmatize don't necessarily always do it because they intend to cause some kind of harm, but they can stigmatize unkowingly by using words that may still influence others.

And one of the main reasons sites like this work is because you have a diverse set of options presented whenever someone asks for help. Not only for the OP, but for anyone reading the thread at a later date because they have the same issue, question, or request. And if a person succumbs to this because of a so-called lack of this awareness that you speak of, then that would mean that no one, ever, would be able to offer any advice or opinion - because every person's opinion on everything would then be open to being regarded as the basis of some sort of stigmatization.

So, you're basically saying that @z3r010 should shut all his forums down because a single subset of people here (everyone offering opinions for others asking for advice or support) is, in some way, causing some sort of imagined stigmatization.

It would be just as readily caused by someone coming into this thread, or any one like it, and saying

Using PowerShell scripts is a PITA, I have to open Terminal or Power shell, then find where the script is located, then run it, and make sure I have to correct parameters set and modules imported to load. Instead, I use XYZ app.

There have been more than a few posts like this about using internal / built-in / native tools when they were suggested. But these don't also cause this so-called stigmatization?

Because, if they do, you've basically given John a reason why the forums should no longer offer advice, and particularly any individual's opinionated advice, at any given time or in any given thread here.

hdmi said:
Microsoft does not in any way guarantee that the built-in tools of Windows will be available to you at any given moment. Case in point, Windows features are breaking all the time, it literally can take centuries for Microsoft to fix them, and Microsoft are deleting features at a rate that would sometimes appear like it could be multiple times faster than you can drive your car with the V6 engine.

I never once mention any sort of guarantee of availability. I instead mention that the 3rd party tools may not be available. And Windows own tools breaking are not all of the service requests nor software advice given in this forum - or in any forum, really. So, I have no idea where you're trying to take this. But this wonderful quotation does go right back to your point of

people are not always consciously aware that they are thinking about what the words mean.

You're obviously over thinking what I've written there.

hdmi said:
The use of 3rd party utilities does not really prevent me from learning the inner workings of the system. To the contrary, being able to compare 3rd party utilities with the built-in ones lets me learn additional details about the various many shortcomings that are related directly to the inner workings of the system.

How do you compare the two if you don't use the native tools? How do you use the native tools if you don't learn how to use them?

You're taking this entirely too far, dude. Sorry, but I call total BS on your idea of stigmatization. Anyone reading these posts in this and all the similar threads like this is allowed to make their own choice. The only stigma here is that some people don't like to hear alternatives that don't fit their perception of what they want to use.

The real stigmatization is your own reaction to their advice. And I'm not bothering with the rest of this because, frankly, you're over blowing the idea from nothing into something - or, rather, making a mountain out of a molehill.

hsehestedt · Oct 14, 2023

Interesting discussion. I would say that you could be stigmatizing the use of Windows built-in tools as being bad. That ship can sail in both directions

Yes, I'm joking, but you get my point, I hope.

Also, saying that Microsoft stuff breaks - have you never seen third-party tools break as well? Also, I hope that you realize that many third-party tools rely upon these functions in Windows. Often times those tools simply serve as front ends for underlying functionality within Windows.

The point is simply that there is often more than one way to do something. For those of us that like to learn new things about Windows, learning how to do things natively opens doors to new possibilities.

As an example, this has allowed me to write a programs to automate many tasks. All these capabilities are possible for me only because I know the secret sauce that makes all these tasks possible.

Never do I bash other tools that accomplish these same tasks. In fact, I acknowledge that I keep these tools in my own essential tools kit.

It comes down to this: When using tools like Rufus, have you never wondered how they accomplish what they are doing? I have. I like to figure out what they are doing behind the curtain. One of the great things about a tool like Rufus is that you can look at the source code to see how it works. You can learn a lot from that.

Look, I get it. Most people could care less about how stuff works in the background. Windows is a simply a tool to be used to run your programs and get real work done. They would rather run a simple utility, and get the task done. In fact, a lot of the time, I fall into that category. But often I'll make a note to myself to figure out other ways to perform that same task at a later date.

I just like to share alternative ways to accomplish a task for those that might have an interest in such things. In fact, you may note that many tutorials on this site do the same thing - they often show two or three or even more ways to accomplish a task.

hdmi · Oct 14, 2023

johnlgalt said:
Neither does it mean it is guaranteed to be a part of the stigmatization. But your post implied that it is.

Absolutely not. It only adds the impression that it is. "The trick, William Potter, is not minding that it hurts."

johnlgalt said:
And one of the main reasons sites like this work is because you have a diverse set of options presented whenever someone asks for help. Not only for the OP, but for anyone reading the thread at a later date because they have the same issue, question, or request. And if a person succumbs to this because of a so-called lack of this awareness that you speak of, then that would mean that no one, ever, would be able to offer any advice or opinion - because every person's opinion on everything would then be open to being regarded as the basis of some sort of stigmatization.

Aside from just jokes, you don't see me post anything that could even remotely suggest that I believe using the built-in tools is almost always a poor choice. Either you have very poor reading comprehension skills or else you are trying to stigmatize me by claiming that you see me post it anyway. The reality is that anyone who has been reading my posts already knows that I am not against using the built-in tools, as I use them for a lot of things.

johnlgalt said:
So, you're basically saying that @z3r010 should shut all his forums down because a single subset of people here (everyone offering opinions for others asking for advice or support) is, in some way, causing some sort of imagined stigmatization.

In your own imagination, yes, that could certainly be it.

johnlgalt said:
It would be just as readily caused by someone coming into this thread, or any one like it, and saying

Nah. As you already know, you don't necessarily have to open Windows Terminal for that, but especially on slower machines it can take a short moment before PowerShell starts and runs the command or script so, there can be a noticeable delay that easily contributes to why using PowerShell isn't always the best answer, even though it very often can be. Where feasible, I tend to often avoid this delay by using other built-in tools such as, e.g., the command prompt or a batchfile, Windows Scripting Host, and the C# compiler (csc.exe) that is part of the .NET Framework. The latter is installed on Windows 11 already by default.

johnlgalt said:
There have been more than a few posts like this about using internal / built-in / native tools when they were suggested. But these don't also cause this so-called stigmatization?

Of course not. There is a big difference between using the built-in tools and being vocal about refusing to use 3rd party tools for anything besides small exceptions.

johnlgalt said:
Because, if they do, you've basically given John a reason why the forums should no longer offer advice, and particularly any individual's opinionated advice, at any given time or in any given thread here.

See above. Also, I like turtles.

johnlgalt said:
I never once mention any sort of guarantee of availability. I instead mention that the 3rd party tools may not be available. And Windows own tools breaking are not all of the service requests nor software advice given in this forum - or in any forum, really. So, I have no idea where you're trying to take this. But this wonderful quotation does go right back to your point of

Similarly, the built-in tools may not be available. So, it is a strawman argument, as this obviously cuts both ways and therefore doesn't add any logical reason why anyone would want to, with only very few exceptions, avoid 3rd party tools.

johnlgalt said:
You're obviously over thinking what I've written there.

Not really. The part you quoted was just to clarify my response. It's human psychology 101. Nothing more, nothing less.

johnlgalt said:
How do you compare the two if you don't use the native tools? How do you use the native tools if you don't learn how to use them?

See above. Using 3rd party tools does not in any way prevent me from using the native tools, and, I never claimed that I don't use the native tools. I do use the native tools, and use them for a lot of things actually. Sometimes they eliminate the need for a 3rd party tool. Sometimes they do not. There can be pros and cons. To be able to learn what are the pros and cons, I use both 3rd party tools and native tools. Or at the very minimum I investigate them both. My only real preference is knowing the important facts (if they affect my workflow and/or could potentially affect other people's workflow) before I pick my choice, and I also like to share this knowledge. (Even, if I'm not going to make many friends by sharing it, as people can still always choose to make friends on asocial media if that's their thing.)

johnlgalt said:
You're taking this entirely too far, dude. Sorry, but I call total BS on your idea of stigmatization. Anyone reading these posts in this and all the similar threads like this is allowed to make their own choice. The only stigma here is that some people don't like to hear alternatives that don't fit their perception of what they want to use.

It isn't my idea of stigmatization. Stigmatization is the action of describing or regarding someone or something as worthy of disgrace or great disapproval so, do you mean to tell me that being vocal about relentlessly avoiding 3rd party tools is not adding the clear impression of great disapproval? lol...

johnlgalt said:
The real stigmatization is your own reaction to their advice. And I'm not bothering with the rest of this because, frankly, you're over blowing the idea from nothing into something - or, rather, making a mountain out of a molehill.

So, here's my little piece of advice. Look up the definition of stigmatization, and, when you do, be sure to read the definition for what the definition truly is. Have a nice day!

hdmi · Oct 14, 2023

hsehestedt said:
Also, saying that Microsoft stuff breaks - have you never seen third-party tools break as well? Also, I hope that you realize that many third-party tools rely upon these functions in Windows. Often times those tools simply serve as front ends for underlying functionality within Windows.

Microsoft stuff does break. Thankfully, it does. (I'd have to find myself a new job if it didn't.)

Wynona · Oct 15, 2023

Can we get back to Rusus now?

johnlgalt · Oct 16, 2023

hdmi said:
Absolutely not. It only adds the impression that it is. "The trick, William Potter, is not minding that it hurts."

hdmi said:
Aside from this, I don't see a whole lot of logical reasons why anyone would want to try to avoid, almost altogether, 3rd party utilities. It really does add the impression of trying to overly stigmatize the bulk of 3rd party utilities.

So, it adds the impression, which we're to ignore, but which you are pointing out nonetheless, even though we're to ignore it.

Disagree. And I'm done with this. You're arguing in circles for whatever reason, and I agree with Wynona - this is about Rufus, nothing more.

hdmi · Oct 17, 2023

johnlgalt said:
So, it adds the impression, which we're to ignore, but which you are pointing out nonetheless, even though we're to ignore it.

Whether you're to ignore it is entirely up to you to decide.

johnlgalt said:
Disagree. And I'm done with this. You're arguing in circles for whatever reason, and I agree with Wynona - this is about Rufus, nothing more.

Let me set this straight. It was about Rufus until someone deemed it necessary to add an impression to it.

johnlgalt · Oct 17, 2023

No, it was about Rufus until you decided to not ignore said impression.

hdmi · Oct 17, 2023

johnlgalt said:
No, it was about Rufus until you decided to not ignore said impression.

Night Hawk · Oct 17, 2023

Winuser said:
Speaking for myself, I'm at that stage in my life that I'll take the easiest way to get something done when possible.

Sounds like you have a plan there!

Here I ran into a snag with the hardware limitation and DUAL BIOS board still seeing UEFI but not higher then the TPM 1.2 level being an "INCOMPATIBLE WITH HARDWARE" issue trying to make up a bootable flash drive for 11. The flash drive was bootable easily enough but it was Rufus that stalled to see the Windows installer fire up!
Besides seeing if a TPM module installed on the present board will work another option being considered is from neosmart however for their create bootable cd/flash drive app. The free version won't proceed but let you see how it works.

Akeo · Oct 19, 2023

Rufus 4.3 has been released:

Add support for Rock Ridge symbolic links preservation when NTFS is used
Add an exception to enforce NTFS for Linux Mint's LMDE
Add an expert feature to restrict a Windows installation to S Mode
Fix persistence support for Debian 12 when booted in BIOS mode
Fix a regression that prevented the opening of .vhd images
Update UEFI:NTFS to report a more explicit error on bootmgr security issues
Improve the search for conflicting processes by running it in a background thread
Improve support for Slax Linux

johnlgalt · Oct 19, 2023

OP updated with links and changelog.

Akeo · Jan 17, 2024

Rufus 4.4 has now been released:

Add workaround for distros that use broken symbolic links as their UEFI bootloaders (such as Mint 21.3)
Add support for GRUB 2.12
Fix a crash when saving .ffu images
Fix UEFI:NTFS partition not being added, in MBR mode, for some Linux ISOs
Prevent Microsoft Dev Drives from being listed
Improve support for SDXC card readers
Improve Large FAT32 formatting by aligning start of data regions to 1 MB (courtesy of Fred)

cereberus · Jan 17, 2024

hsehestedt said:
The point is simply that there is often more than one way to do something. For those of us that like to learn new things about Windows, learning how to do things natively opens doors to new possibilities.

As an example, this has allowed me to write a programs to automate many tasks. All these capabilities are possible for me only because I know the secret sauce that makes all these tasks possible.

Totally agree - I have a number of batch files that use native command rather than dism.

One in particular creates a custom install.wim of one pc, injects drivers into install.wim (and irst drivers) into boot.wim, and create an iso, and a custom usb installation drive.

If I did not have this batch file, I would rely on several 3rd party tools e.g. Macrium Reflect, Minitool Partition Wizard and Rufus. Each of these has a place in a users app portfolio, but gluing them together with your secret sauce is nigh on impossible.

Rufus: The Reliable USB Formatting Utility

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