Something I've noticed with new Intel motherboards/chipsets


This is the Z790 chipset brief. It supports either 1x16 PCI gen 5 OR 2x8 PCI gen 5 slots - maximum of 16 PCI gen 5 lanes. Any PCI gen 5 M2 slots from the CPU will use the bandwidth of the PCI slots. Note that the 1x4 PCI lanes are gen 4 not gen 5.

Quite a severe limitation if you ask me!
 

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No, with the Asus there's 16 lanes for the GPU, and 4 for the SSD (add an additional 4 for the 2nd SSD on the AMD boards). The 1st PCIe slot CAN cut down your GPU card to x8, but that's only IF it's a PCIe 5.0 card, which the RTX4090 is not.
 

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No, with the Asus there's 16 lanes for the GPU, and 4 for the SSD (add an additional 4 for the 2nd SSD on the AMD boards). The 1st PCIe slot CAN cut down your GPU card to x8, but that's only IF it's a PCIe 5.0 card, which the RTX4090 is not.
I don't think any of them work like that - a gen 4 GPU will run at gen 4 x8, not gen 4 x16. Even if you put a Gen 3 SSD in the slot you'll still only get x8 on the GPU slot (the board only detects it's occupied, not what gen it is). I guess they're hardwired that way. I'll hold my hands up if I'm wrong on this!
 

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I don't think any of them work like that - a gen 4 GPU will run at gen 4 x8, not gen 4 x16. Even if you put a Gen 3 SSD in the slot you'll still only get x8 on the GPU slot. I guess they're hardwired that way.
No, each PCIe G5 lane gives you two downstream PCIe 4.0 lanes if the card you have is a PCIe 4.0 card.
 

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No, with the Asus there's 16 lanes for the GPU, and 4 for the SSD (add an additional 4 for the 2nd SSD on the AMD boards). The 1st PCIe slot CAN cut down your GPU card to x8, but that's only IF it's a PCIe 5.0 card, which the RTX4090 is not.

No, each PCIe G5 lane gives you two downstream PCIe 4.0 lanes if the card you have is a PCIe 4.0 card.

No, each PCIe G5 lane gives you two downstream PCIe 4.0 lanes if the card you have is a PCIe 4.0 card.
Someone on Reddit had EXACTLY this issue. Running a gen 4 4090 GPU was only at x8 until he moved the M2 drive to the second slot. So it's not a case of what gen is being used, it's physically wired that way. Asus Z790 board.

 

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    i7 13650HX
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    16GB DDR5
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    GeForce RTX 4060 Mobile
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    Eastern Electric MiniMax DAC Supreme; Emotiva UMC-200; Astell & Kern AK240
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    Intel Iris Xe
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    Eastern Electric MiniMax DAC Supreme; Emotiva UMC-200; Astell & Kern AK240
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Same problem again. The board's M2 slots are only gen 4, the Hyper M2 cards support Gen 5 but if it's inserted into the gen 5 PCI slot both slots will run at x8.

M2_1 is Gen 4 not Gen 5 so can have x16 GPU with the slot in use. Still no way to run x16 GPU and gen 5 M2 drive as using the expansion card will make the x16 slot x8 only.
 

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I'll conclude this thread now.

As the Z790 can only have a maximum of 16 Gen 5 lanes it's not possible to run a GPU at x16 and use the Gen 5 M2 slot at the same time. As the boards are physically wired for gen 5 even running older gen drives will restrict the GPU lanes to x8. Boards that don't have Gen 5 M2 slots won't have this problem.

Like I said in my first post, it's an either/or situation - GPU at x16 but no Gen 5 M2, or Gen 5 M2 but with GPU at x8

It does pay to look at the specs properly when buying hardware, and definitely read the manuals!

Future proofing wasn't even considered...
 

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As the Z790 can only have a maximum of 16 Gen 5 lanes
Z790 has 20 Gen 5 output lanes, versus 28 Gen 5 output lanes for X670E. But then you are ignoring other factors such as the fact that both Z690 and Z790 have effectively 8 Gen 4 input lanes, just to name only one example.. so apples and oranges.
 

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Z790 has 20 Gen 5 output lanes, versus 28 Gen 5 output lanes for X670E. But then you are ignoring other factors such as the fact that both Z690 and Z790 have effectively 8 Gen 4 input lanes, just to name only one example.. so apples and oranges.
Each platform has it's own advantages and disadvantages. Like I said I was utterly shocked that Z790 only supports 16 Gen 5 PCI lanes so it sort of limits the usefulness. Intel memory can clock higher than AMD.
 

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Each platform has it's own advantages and disadvantages. Like I said I was utterly shocked that Z790 only supports 16 Gen 5 PCI lanes so it sort of limits the usefulness. Intel memory can clock higher than AMD.
I am utterly shocked about a lot of things TBH. For example, if I can assume that the main goal is to play demanding games on high settings, then things like P2W, boring DLC and relentless cheating/laming in online multiplayer limits the usefulness to somewhere deep below zero for me so, I quit gaming altogether, like, more than a whole decade ago.
 

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    GeForce RTX 4060 Mobile
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    Eastern Electric MiniMax DAC Supreme; Emotiva UMC-200; Astell & Kern AK240
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    Sony Bravia XR-55X90J
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    3840×2160
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    512GB SSD internal
    37TB external
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    Li-ion
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    2× Arc Flow Fans, 4× exhaust vents, 5× heatpipes
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    Logitech K800
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    11 Home
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    Medion S15450
    CPU
    i5 1135G7
    Memory
    16GB DDR4
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    Intel Iris Xe
    Sound Card
    Eastern Electric MiniMax DAC Supreme; Emotiva UMC-200; Astell & Kern AK240
    Monitor(s) Displays
    Sony Bravia XR-55X90J
    Screen Resolution
    3840×2160
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    37TB external
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    Li-ion
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Puzzled by these two statements.

Z790 has 20 Gen 5 output lanes, versus 28 Gen 5 output lanes for X670E. But then you are ignoring other factors such as the fact that both Z690 and Z790 have effectively 8 Gen 4 input lanes, just to name only one example.. so apples and oranges.

The z790 chipset doesn't support any Gen 5. It supports 20 Gen 4.

Each platform has it's own advantages and disadvantages. Like I said I was utterly shocked that Z790 only supports 16 Gen 5 PCI lanes so it sort of limits the usefulness. Intel memory can clock higher than AMD.

The Processor supports 16 Gen5 and 4 Gen4 lanes, not the Z790 chipset.
 

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I'll conclude this thread now.

As the Z790 can only have a maximum of 16 Gen 5 lanes it's not possible to run a GPU at x16 and use the Gen 5 M2 slot at the same time. As the boards are physically wired for gen 5 even running older gen drives will restrict the GPU lanes to x8. Boards that don't have Gen 5 M2 slots won't have this problem.

Like I said in my first post, it's an either/or situation - GPU at x16 but no Gen 5 M2, or Gen 5 M2 but with GPU at x8

It does pay to look at the specs properly when buying hardware, and definitely read the manuals!

Future proofing wasn't even considered...

It is the processor that has the 16 Gen5 lanes (+ 4 Gen4). The chipset supports 20 Gen4 lanes. The boards are usually configured with a single Gen5 m.2 that runs off the processor Gen5 lanes, and several m.2 off the Z790 chipset Gen4. If you use the Gen5 m.2 slot, your graphics PCI-e will drop down from 16 lanes to 8. You can however use any of the Z790 Gen4 m.2 slots - they will not impact the graphics PCI-e, it will still be 16 lane Gen5.
 

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    EKWB 360 Nucleus Dark AIO w/Phanteks T30-120 fans, 1 Noctua NF-A14 Chromax case fan
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    Apple 13" Macbook Pro 2020 (m1)
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    Apple M1
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    2560x1600
    Browser
    Firefox
Puzzled by these two statements.



The z790 chipset doesn't support any Gen 5. It supports 20 Gen 4.



The Processor supports 16 Gen5 and 4 Gen4 lanes, not the Z790 chipset.
Yes I understand that, but at the end of the day the Z790 boards have a serious hardware limitation. Is there any reason why the CPUs can't use 20 gen 5 lanes?
 

My Computer

System One

  • OS
    Windows 11 Pro 23H2 (RP channel)
    Computer type
    PC/Desktop
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    Gigabyte
    CPU
    AMD Ryzen 5900X 12-core
    Motherboard
    X570 Aorus Xtreme
    Memory
    64GB Corsair Platinum RGB 3600MHz CL16
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    MSI Suprim X 3080 Ti
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    Soundblaster AE-5 Plus
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    ASUS TUF Gaming VG289Q
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    Hard Drives
    Samsung 990 Pro 2TB
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    Samsung 970 Evo Plus 1TB
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    Samsung T7 Touch 1TB
    PSU
    Asus ROG Strix 1000W
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    Corsair D750 Airflow
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    Noctua NH-D15S
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    Asus ROG Flare
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    Logitech G903 with PowerPlay charger
    Internet Speed
    500Mb/sec
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    Microsoft Edge
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    Windows Defender
Yes I understand that, but at the end of the day the Z790 boards have a serious hardware limitation. Is there any reason why the CPUs can't use 20 gen 5 lanes?
Because they weren't designed to. There are not 20 Gen5, only 16 Gen5 + 4 Gen4 by design. Can't tell you what the design trade-offs were.
 

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System One System Two

  • OS
    Windows 11 Pro x64
    Computer type
    PC/Desktop
    Manufacturer/Model
    DIY Photoshop/Game/tinker build
    CPU
    Intel i9 1300KS
    Motherboard
    Asus ROG Maximus Z90 Dark Hero
    Memory
    64GB (2x32) G.skill Trident Z5 RGB 6400 MHZ 32-39-39
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    Asus ROG Strix 4070 Ti OC
    Sound Card
    Onboard Audio, Vanatoo Transparent One; Klipsch R-12SWi Sub; Creative Pebble Pro Minimilist
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    Eizo CG2730, ViewSonic VP2768
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    2560 x 1440p x 2
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    WDC SN850 1TB nvme, SK-Hynix 2 TB P41 nvme, Raid 0: 1TB 850 EVO + 1TB 860 EVO SSD. Sabrent USB-C DS-SC5B 5-bay docking station: 6TB WDC Black, 6TB Ironwolf Pro; 2x 2TB WDC Black
    PSU
    850W Seasonic Vertex PX-850
    Case
    Fractal Design North XL Mesh, Black Walnut
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    EKWB 360 Nucleus Dark AIO w/Phanteks T30-120 fans, 1 Noctua NF-A14 Chromax case fan
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    Glorious GMMK TKL mechanical, lubed modded
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    Logitech G305 wireless gaming
    Internet Speed
    380 Mb/s down, 12 Mb/s up
    Browser
    Firefox
    Antivirus
    Defender, Macrium Reflect 8 ;-)
  • Computer type
    Laptop
    Manufacturer/Model
    Apple 13" Macbook Pro 2020 (m1)
    CPU
    Apple M1
    Screen Resolution
    2560x1600
    Browser
    Firefox
Puzzled by these two statements.



The z790 chipset doesn't support any Gen 5. It supports 20 Gen 4.
"Output lanes" is referring to the downstream lanes, 16 Gen 5 + 4 Gen 4 = 20 "Gen 5 output lanes". The "Gen 5" in "Gen 5 output lanes" here is only referring to the fact that these lanes are downstream of the Gen 5 bus that's in the CPU. But anyway. Gen 5 M.2 SSDs require additional cooling, which is why the Asus ROG Crosshair X670E Extreme seems like a better choice compared to the Gigabyte X670E Aorus Xtreme. Meanwhile, this just happened:
 

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    11 Home
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    Asus TUF Gaming (2024)
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    i7 13650HX
    Memory
    16GB DDR5
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    GeForce RTX 4060 Mobile
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    Eastern Electric MiniMax DAC Supreme; Emotiva UMC-200; Astell & Kern AK240
    Monitor(s) Displays
    Sony Bravia XR-55X90J
    Screen Resolution
    3840×2160
    Hard Drives
    512GB SSD internal
    37TB external
    PSU
    Li-ion
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    2× Arc Flow Fans, 4× exhaust vents, 5× heatpipes
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    Logitech K800
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    Logitech G402
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    20Mbit/s up, 250Mbit/s down
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    FF
  • Operating System
    11 Home
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    Medion S15450
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    i5 1135G7
    Memory
    16GB DDR4
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    Intel Iris Xe
    Sound Card
    Eastern Electric MiniMax DAC Supreme; Emotiva UMC-200; Astell & Kern AK240
    Monitor(s) Displays
    Sony Bravia XR-55X90J
    Screen Resolution
    3840×2160
    Hard Drives
    2TB SSD internal
    37TB external
    PSU
    Li-ion
    Mouse
    Logitech G402
    Keyboard
    Logitech K800
    Internet Speed
    20Mbit/s up, 250Mbit/s down
    Browser
    FF
No, each PCIe G5 lane gives you two downstream PCIe 4.0 lanes if the card you have is a PCIe 4.0 card.
While PCI-E 5.0 nominally has twice the bandwidth of PCI-E 4.0, I am unaware that any board has the provision of duplexing X16 PCI-E 5.0 lanes into two X16 PCI-E 4.0 ones. (That's a pity, as there are no PCI-E 5.0 graphics cards at this time, AFAIK. The highest end ones are still Gen 4.)

If I use an M.2 drive in M.2_1 of my Asus RoG Strix Z690-E, the lanes available got the graphics slot fall back to X8, regardless of the PCI-E generation of the M.2 drive.

Asus makes boards which use the CPU's Gen 4 lanes for the M.2 slot. The graphics slot gets X16 regardless whether the CPU M.2 slot is populated or not.

The story is the same for Z690 and Z790 boards.
 

My Computers

System One System Two

  • OS
    Windows 11 22631.2861
    Computer type
    PC/Desktop
    Manufacturer/Model
    homebuilt
    CPU
    Amd Threadripper 7970X
    Motherboard
    Gigabyte TRX50 Aero D
    Memory
    128GB (4 X 32) Kingston DDR5 5200 (RDIMM)
    Graphics Card(s)
    Gigabyte RTX 4090 OC
    Sound Card
    none (USB to speakers), Realtek
    Monitor(s) Displays
    Philips 27E1N8900 OLED
    Screen Resolution
    3840 X 2160 @ 60Hz
    Hard Drives
    Crucial T700 2TB M.2 NVME SSD
    WD 4TB Blue SATA SSD
    Seagate 18TB IronWolf Pro
    PSU
    eVGA SuperNOVA 1600 GT
    Case
    Lian Li 011 Dynamic Evo XL
    Cooling
    Alphacool Eisbaer Pro Aurora 360, with 3 Phanteks T30 fans
    Keyboard
    Logitech K120 (wired)
    Mouse
    Logitech M500s (wired)
    Internet Speed
    1200 Mbps
  • Operating System
    windows 11 22631.2861
    Computer type
    PC/Desktop
    Manufacturer/Model
    homebuilt
    CPU
    Intel I9-13900K
    Motherboard
    Asus RoG Strix Z690-E
    Memory
    64GB G.Skill DDR5-6000
    Graphics card(s)
    Gigabyte RTX 3090 ti
    Sound Card
    built in Realtek
    Monitor(s) Displays
    Asus PA329C
    Screen Resolution
    3840 X 2160 @60Hz
    Hard Drives
    WDC SN850 1TB
    8 TB Seagate Ironwolf
    4TB Seagate Ironwolf
    PSU
    eVGA SuperNOVA 1300 GT
    Case
    Lian Li 011 Dynamic Evo
    Cooling
    Corsair iCUE H150i ELITE CAPELLIX Liquid CPU Cooler
    Mouse
    Logitech M500s (wired)
    Keyboard
    Logitech K120 (wired)
While PCI-E 5.0 nominally has twice the bandwidth of PCI-E 4.0, I am unaware that any board has the provision of duplexing X16 PCI-E 5.0 lanes into two X16 PCI-E 4.0 ones. (That's a pity, as there are no PCI-E 5.0 graphics cards at this time, AFAIK. The highest end ones are still Gen 4.)

If I use an M.2 drive in M.2_1 of my Asus RoG Strix Z690-E, the lanes available got the graphics slot fall back to X8, regardless of the PCI-E generation of the M.2 drive.

Asus makes boards which use the CPU's Gen 4 lanes for the M.2 slot. The graphics slot gets X16 regardless whether the CPU M.2 slot is populated or not.

The story is the same for Z690 and Z790 boards.
Have you verified that the PCIe bandwidth drops to PCIe Gen 4 x8 speed by running the PCIe bandwidth benchmark of 3DMark? Also, in GPU-Z when you run the little benchmark test from the window that opens after you click on the question mark button next to Bus Information, what does the Bus Information say?
 
Last edited:

My Computers

System One System Two

  • OS
    11 Home
    Computer type
    Laptop
    Manufacturer/Model
    Asus TUF Gaming (2024)
    CPU
    i7 13650HX
    Memory
    16GB DDR5
    Graphics Card(s)
    GeForce RTX 4060 Mobile
    Sound Card
    Eastern Electric MiniMax DAC Supreme; Emotiva UMC-200; Astell & Kern AK240
    Monitor(s) Displays
    Sony Bravia XR-55X90J
    Screen Resolution
    3840×2160
    Hard Drives
    512GB SSD internal
    37TB external
    PSU
    Li-ion
    Cooling
    2× Arc Flow Fans, 4× exhaust vents, 5× heatpipes
    Keyboard
    Logitech K800
    Mouse
    Logitech G402
    Internet Speed
    20Mbit/s up, 250Mbit/s down
    Browser
    FF
  • Operating System
    11 Home
    Computer type
    Laptop
    Manufacturer/Model
    Medion S15450
    CPU
    i5 1135G7
    Memory
    16GB DDR4
    Graphics card(s)
    Intel Iris Xe
    Sound Card
    Eastern Electric MiniMax DAC Supreme; Emotiva UMC-200; Astell & Kern AK240
    Monitor(s) Displays
    Sony Bravia XR-55X90J
    Screen Resolution
    3840×2160
    Hard Drives
    2TB SSD internal
    37TB external
    PSU
    Li-ion
    Mouse
    Logitech G402
    Keyboard
    Logitech K800
    Internet Speed
    20Mbit/s up, 250Mbit/s down
    Browser
    FF

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