The Windows Eleven Thing

Scannerman · Oct 3, 2023

I'm not getting any of that but then I turned off updates long ago.

Edwin · Oct 14, 2023

Edwin said:
Pops up every hour, or so, now! Redundant! Almost childish!

View attachment 71940

Got rid of it!

TechnoMage2021 · Oct 15, 2023

I'm totally lost. What build of Windows was that?
Mine will never expire.

Edwin · Oct 15, 2023

TechnoMage2021 said:
I'm totally lost. What build of Windows was that?
Mine will never expire.

Scannerman · Oct 15, 2023

Edwin said:
View attachment 74304

Edwin, old buddy old pal... I do hope you're running that on a rogue PC and not your main. Those evals can do serious damage at times. I used to do Windows Insider but not anymore. Not worth the time and energy, but I suppose somebody's gotta do it. Eventually they will shut you down, but be careful not to accidentally use the activation key on an upgrade as there could be dire consequences to your data. (At least that has been my own personal experience.) Conclusion: Windows Evaluation copies are strictly for gamblers. Have fun!

Edwin · Oct 15, 2023

Scannerman said:
Edwin, old buddy old pal... I do hope you're running that on a rogue PC and not your main. Those evals can do serious damage at times. I used to do Windows Insider but not anymore. Not worth the time and energy, but I suppose somebody's gotta do it. Eventually they will shut you down, but be careful not to accidentally use the activation key on an upgrade as there could be dire consequences to your data. (At least that has been my own personal experience.) Conclusion: Windows Evaluation copies are strictly for gamblers. Have fun!

Yep!

Don't I know it!!!

Bring it on! I've been itchin to do a clean bare metal install!

I've got all my stuff backed up!

Dru2 · Oct 15, 2023

I dumped my Windows 11 evals earlier this year. Ended up going back to Windows 10 on both my main laptop and backup desktop.

My main rig which is fully supported is running Windows 11 Pro without issue

Scannerman · Oct 16, 2023

Dru2 said:
I dumped my Windows 11 evals earlier this year. Ended up going back to Windows 10 on both my main laptop and backup desktop.

My main rig which is fully supported is running Windows 11 Pro without issue

I have yet to run Win 11 on my Gen 4 build. My main is my work station and the 6900K CPU that it sports is not compliant with Win 11. My verdict is that although Win 11 does work on my work station it does not work as well as I would like it to and it will consequently be relegated to the status of a secondary OS on this unit. I would like to say that Windows cannot be completely blamed for this but that would be short-sighted.

When Win 11 was first released most PCs could not even run the OS legitimately unless they were three years old or less. Windows 11 still works on my laptop, which is newer, but I rarely ever use my laptop so no great gain there for me. I do take issue with the whole TPM thing and I consider it a marketing gimmick to make people think their PC is outdated and obsolete. Years have passed since and time marches on.

My aversion to Win 10 was that so much surgery had to be done to ensure that I could actively exercise my personal rights to privacy. Of course, in the knowledge that Windows won't stand behind an OS that has been modified, much less butchered, I didn't find this all that encouraging. I had to give my head a shake and realize Windows doesn't stand behind an OS regardless of what one does with it. The EULA is there to protect them — not the user. For this reason I sympathize with those who claim that the Windows OS really should be free of charge because we really all use it at our own risk. Windows is 100% exempt from any liability. So, yeah. . . Linux can't be any worse in this regard.

My Windows upgrade from 10 to 11 on my HERO X570 resulted in a complete disaster. That's why it's back to running 10 again, despite having to hack out so much of the telemetry and garbage that comes with it. I never thought I'd be saying this, but I miss Windows 8.1. Yes, it had issues too and it was more of a tablet OS than anything; but once the mess was sorted out and the tools were made to replace those that were eliminated by the switch from 7 to 8 (yuck!) Win 8.1 turned out to be not a half bad OS in the end. Win 8 was not great but 7 was heaven compared to the roller coaster ride we got with VISTA.

I'm pretty much done with the idea that Windows will improve. From Win 95 on up it has been a slice and all the thrills and spills that have ensued from all my Windows adventures to present have culminated in a track record that hasn't really impressed me since Windows 7 Ultimate arrived. I'm still running that on the old work station and I have to say that when all else fails that's the Windows OS I go back to. I consider it Microsoft's best effort and likely their last. Maybe I'm just old fashioned and going the way of obsolescence as well, but I can live with that. At some point I'll probably have to hunker down and give place to Linux because it turns out that my grandfather was right after all:

They just don't make 'em like they used to.

hdmi · Oct 16, 2023

Scannerman said:
privacy

Scannerman · Oct 16, 2023

This might explain why I hide in the basement.

TraderGary · Oct 16, 2023

I've had most every Microsoft OS since my first IBM PC in 1981. I like Windows 11.

Scannerman · Oct 16, 2023

I'm hoping Windows 12 will be better but I'm not holding my breath.

Dru2 · Oct 16, 2023

Scannerman said:
I have yet to run Win 11 on my Gen 4 build. My main is my work station and the 6900K CPU that it sports is not compliant with Win 11. My verdict is that although Win 11 does work on my work station it does not work as well as I would like it to and it will consequently be relegated to the status of a secondary OS on this unit. I would like to say that Windows cannot be completely blamed for this but that would be short-sighted.

Actually, it would be short-sighted to dismiss the fact that Windows (Microsoft), like any other software (or hardware) vendor cannot be eternally confined to perpetually supporting old standards. If that were the case, we'd still be stuck with 1900's tech

Windows 11 is simply entering into a new era where heightened security is a must; that the tech of yesterday cannot deal with the threats of today or tomorrow. That requires more stringent hardware requirements, and thus the requirements of Windows 11.

And for the record, I'm not sitting on a golden throne as 3 of my 4 PCs also don't make the cut for 11, including my main laptop

Scannerman · Oct 16, 2023

Dru2 said:
Actually, it would be short-sighted to dismiss the fact that Windows (Microsoft), like any other software (or hardware) vendor cannot be eternally confined to perpetually supporting old standards. If that were the case, we'd still be stuck with 1900's tech

Windows 11 is simply entering into a new era where heightened security is a must; that the tech of yesterday cannot deal with the threats of today or tomorrow. That requires more stringent hardware requirements, and thus the requirements of Windows 11.

And for the record, I'm not sitting on a golden throne as 3 of my 4 PCs also don't make the cut for 11, including my main laptop

To be fair, here, in the organic world, 3 years isn't a whole lot of time. Although I quite agree that one must move with the times and not stand in the way of progress .. yaddah yaddah... The ability to embrace a decade's worth of technology while moving forward isn't unthinkable. They did it with Windows 7, they could have done it with the rest.

I'm hardly convinced of the arguments made for Windows 11 in the way of security. Once again the one decade rule applies. TPM has been around for a a decade and it has consistently failed. Using your reason and logic, I would say it's time to move on. Surely there are better ways to approach this matter of security apart from rendering every 5 year old PC obsolete.

Although I agree that progress should not be rushed or haphazard, I do recognize that it is expedient for heightened security to exist in these very dubious days. That our great minds in software development are incapable of writing software that is FLEXIBLE enough to work legitimately with hardware that is seven to ten years old strikes me as a weak argument. It has already been done and it can be done again. The old security argument simply doesn't wash. IMO The devs need to go back to the drawing board and come up with something better than TPM.

Admittedly, I keep an inventory of PCs, most of them quite dated. Only two are TPM2 ready. I am not sitting on any golden throne here either. In fact, I'm in the process of giving away most of my PCs to the less fortunate, trying to keep interest in personal computing alive in the generations that follow. A large portion of youth today are practically married to hand held devices and have little interest in PCs. I'm attempting to rekindle that interest as an enthusiast and to pass on the knowledge and experience to others.

Anyway, that is my opinion and I am as entitled to it as anyone else is entitled to theirs.

Dru2 · Oct 16, 2023

Scannerman said:
To be fair, here, in the organic world, 3 years isn't a whole lot of time. Although I quite agree that one must move with the times and not stand in the way of progress .. yaddah yaddah... The ability to embrace a decade's worth of technology while moving forward isn't unthinkable. They did it with Windows 7, they could have done it with the rest.

Maybe you haven't been paying attention, but in the PC world 3 years is a lifetime, and especially as the tech continues to explode - cloud computing, now A.I. That along with a host of world threats as we move more and more into the cyberworld.

And let's not forget Windows 7 came behind Vista. And if you remember Vista, it too had stringent hardware requirements. Yeah, you could use existing hardware, but if your hardware (and software) was too old, Vista Struggled. Also remember it was Windows 7 that basically moved everyone off of 32-bit OS's to 64-bit OS's. Point? There were changes there too.

So yeah, 3 years is a lifetime in the PC world, especially now that A.I. is here. Windows 12, or whatever the official title will probably have even more people scratching their heads with what it will do and require.

Winuser · Oct 16, 2023

Scannerman said:
Edwin, old buddy old pal... I do hope you're running that on a rogue PC and not your main. Those evals can do serious damage at times. I used to do Windows Insider but not anymore. Not worth the time and energy, but I suppose somebody's gotta do it. Eventually they will shut you down, but be careful not to accidentally use the activation key on an upgrade as there could be dire consequences to your data. (At least that has been my own personal experience.) Conclusion: Windows Evaluation copies are strictly for gamblers. Have fun!

I must be a Gambler+. I run the Canary Builds on my main desktop and my second desktop. Every problem I have had was solved by rolling back and waiting for the next build to be released. I was thinking about dropping out. Not because of problems but because of boredom. IMHO, the new builds have so boring that they are better than taking sleeping pills. Because I do backups I don't have to worry about losing anything. Sorry to hear that you lost data but how many times must it be posted to keep backups?

Winuser · Oct 16, 2023

Dru2 said:
Windows 11 is simply entering into a new era where heightened security is a must; that the tech of yesterday cannot deal with the threats of today or tomorrow. That requires more stringent hardware requirements, and thus the requirements of Windows 11.

Winuser · Oct 16, 2023

Scannerman said:
I would say it's time to move on. Surely there are better ways to approach this matter of security apart from rendering every 5 year old PC obsolete.

I'm sure MS would be open to any suggestion you can give them.

Scannerman · Oct 16, 2023

Dru2 said:
Maybe you haven't been paying attention, but in the PC world 3 years is a lifetime, and especially as the tech continues to explode - cloud computing, now A.I. That along with a host of world threats as we move more and more into the cyberworld.

And let's not forget Windows 7 came behind Vista. And if you remember Vista, it too had stringent hardware requirements. Yeah, you could use existing hardware, but if your hardware (and software) was too old, Vista Struggled. Also remember it was Windows 7 that basically moved everyone off of 32-bit OS's to 64-bit OS's. Point? There were changes there too.

So yeah, 3 years is a lifetime in the PC world, especially now that A.I. is here. Windows 12, or whatever the official title will probably have even more people scratching their heads with what it will do and require.

None of what you stated here diminishes what I have imparted to the reader. We still live in an organic world and that bridge between carbon and silicon is essential if the relationship between man and machine is to continue. Progress is no justification for getting carried away with half-baked ideas that do more damage than good. Those who sacrifice liberty for security deserve neither.

I'm pointing to the obvious when I state that there is no reason Windows 11 couldn't have been designed to work with most PCs up to ten years of age. I don't believe the said "issue" is really the issue. The move was hardly about security although that tactic is often used to justify profits more than anything else. In addition to this slick move more e-waste will be generated as a result of PCs going obsolete prematurely when so much of this "security" can be dealt with at the software level and made to work with older hardware.

At least the developers of Windows 7 (and VISTA) also provided a 32 bit option to users as the hardware was slowly phased out at a sensible pace. Again, the line must be drawn at some point and I draw it at TPM. I do not refute that in the PC world 3 years is a lifetime but in the so-called real world it is otherwise. So if three years is a lifetime in the PC world and TPM has still not been proven reliable after ten years, then I would say that the time to move on in the PC world is long overdue. The time has come to be more flexible with older hardware and scrap TPM altogether.