The Windows Eleven Thing

Dru2 · Oct 16, 2023

I missed this, but uh...

Scannerman said:
Conclusion: Windows Evaluation copies are strictly for gamblers. Have fun!

Yeah!!! It's a test OS! And why the program is voluntary. Why you're warned of potential hazards, and also not to use on your only PC. Also, in running betaware, it's expected you report any issues or problems found. That's the reason you join such a program.

In short, you know what you're getting into running a beta OS. If you don't want the headaches, don't run Insiders. Period.

Dru2 · Oct 16, 2023

Scannerman said:
None of what you stated here diminishes what I have imparted to the reader. We still live in an organic world and that bridge between carbon and silicon is essential if the relationship between man and machine is to continue. Progress is no justification for getting carried away with half-baked ideas that do more damage than good. Those who sacrifice liberty for security deserve neither.

We've had a very similar conversation before, so I'm not going to rehash the same theme for another ten pages.

In the end we just have different philosophies on how we view things, so we'll just have to agree to disagree agreeably

Peace

Berton · Oct 16, 2023

I was on a lady's desktop this afternoon, checked the machine running Win10 and interestingly it has the TPM 2 but the CPU is an Intel 3rd Generation, doesn't meet the requirement for Win11.

antspants · Oct 16, 2023

Scannerman said:
I'm pointing to the obvious when I state that there is no reason Windows 11 couldn't have been designed to work with most PCs up to ten years of age.

The tech industry sat and posed two questions:
A. How do we syphon more data out of users?
B. How do we coheres them to spend?
The answer always ends with “Manipulate”
My opinion goes on for

pages…ad nauseam.

Dru2 · Oct 16, 2023

Berton said:
I was on a lady's desktop this afternoon, checked the machine running Win10 and interestingly it has the TPM 2 but the CPU is an Intel 3rd Generation, doesn't meet the requirement for Win11.

Not surprising as I'm in the same boat with both my backup desktop and laptop (TPM qualified, but CPU disqualified - i7-7700K, i7-7600U). Firmware TPM 2.0 (around 2014) predates both my CPUs.

hdmi · Oct 17, 2023

pparks1 · Oct 17, 2023

Scannerman said:
I'm pretty much done with the idea that Windows will improve. From Win 95 on up it has been a slice and all the thrills and spills that have ensued from all my Windows adventures to present have culminated in a track record that hasn't really impressed me since Windows 7 Ultimate arrived. I'm still running that on the old work station and I have to say that when all else fails that's the Windows OS I go back to.

XP was far better than 95. Windows 7 was better than XP. I think Windows 10 is far better than 7. If I had to settle with any Windows OS on a device, right now today...it would be 10.

pparks1 · Oct 17, 2023

Dru2 said:
And for the record, I'm not sitting on a golden throne as 3 of my 4 PCs also don't make the cut for 11, including my main laptop

Technology does need to move forward. I have an older Core i5 based Mac Book Pro. It as a great laptop...back in 2013. And guess what, the newest OS's released by Apple no longer run on it. Mac OS Big sur was the last supported OS for that hardware and that came out in late 2020. Pretty much had 7 years of supported OS's for that device, and that seemed fine by me.

For my Mac usage, after getting my daughter a new Mac Book Air with an M1 chip, I really wanted a new Mac with the M1. I couldn't justify the cost of a new MacBook air, but I could justify a refurb Mac Mini 2020 with the M1 chip.

On the windows front, my desktop supports Windows 11. My work laptop supports 11. My spare little test computers though (Intel NUC's did not). While I did run 11 on them just to see if it would work, I ultimately upgraded them to a Beelink mini PC running an 8th Gen core i5, with 32GB of RAM. This little box was less than $500 and has been great on Windows 11....and leaps and bounds more performant than my aging Intel Nuc's.

We have 2 more years of full support for Windows 10....so all this slightly older hardware still has a solid OS to run on it.

Scannerman · Oct 17, 2023

I'm typing this on Win 7 right now and finding it to be the satisfactory user experience I remember it to be. I can't say the same for Windows 10 and I certainly can't say that for Windows 11. Admittedly, when I ran into issues on 95 and 98 I would tell myself that Windows would improve. Win 98 did seem better than 95. Win ME IMO was a nightmare, but it got me rolling up my sleeves and learning as I had little choice at the time. I don't recall ever seeing so many BSODs since. Yet, I kept telling myself one day Windows would get better. Admittedly, it did certainly improve with Win XP. Then along came VISTA and slogging through all those growing pains and service packs finally gave birth to Win 7. Finally Windows got better.

It does seem a shame that Win7 had to come to a close at some point, but I can't begrudge Microsoft for this as I definitely had over a decade with it, mostly positive and productive. I think most people who are familiar with Windows 8 (not Win 8.1) would agree that it was a failure. Although 8.1 had its perks I am of the persuasion that it couldn't hold a candle to Windows 7 Ultimate. No, sorry. I'm not seeing any glorious improvement here. I miss 8.1 because it was better than 10 and it certainly served me better than 11 has.

Once again, Windows 10 seems a fine OS once all the surgery is done, but the user shouldn't have to do this to their OS simply to enjoy a trouble free, spyware free, bloatware free, adware free operating system. IMO Windows isn't improving at all. What with AI coming on stream and all those "security issues" we are being warned about I suspect it will culminate in a veritable disaster.

Win 11 will be my plaything. Perhaps in time it will improve. Perhaps it will be like VISTA and eventually become a half decent OS. I'm old, and set in my ways, opinionated, and a stick in the mud. This suits me just fine. In the meantime, I'm glad I still have a functional version of Windows 7 on my PC that uses programs I can rely on, works fine with Office, doesn't give me buggy Paint, no nasties in my device manager, doesn't blue screen, and runs stable.

I realize my view isn't popular. We all want Windows to be so much better than it used to be. Well, sorry... It isn't.

Windows 7 still rules and I'm still waiting.

cereberus · Oct 17, 2023

Scannerman said:
I'm typing this on Win 7 right now and finding it to be the satisfactory user experience I remember it to be. I can't say the same for Windows 10 and I certainly can't say that for Windows 11. Admittedly, when I ran into issues on 95 and 98 I would tell myself that Windows would improve. Win 98 did seem better than 95. Win ME IMO was a nightmare, but it got me rolling up my sleeves and learning as I had little choice at the time. I don't recall ever seeing so many BSODs since. Yet, I kept telling myself one day Windows would get better. Admittedly, it did certainly improve with Win XP. Then along came VISTA and slogging through all those growing pains and service packs finally gave birth to Win 7. Finally Windows got better.

It does seem a shame that Win7 had to come to a close at some point, but I can't begrudge Microsoft for this as I definitely had over a decade with it, mostly positive and productive. I think most people who are familiar with Windows 8 (not Win 8.1) would agree that it was a failure. Although 8.1 had its perks I am of the persuasion that it couldn't hold a candle to Windows 7 Ultimate. No, sorry. I'm not seeing any glorious improvement here. I miss 8.1 because it was better than 10 and it certainly served me better than 11 has.

Once again, Windows 10 seems a fine OS once all the surgery is done, but the user shouldn't have to do this to their OS simply to enjoy a trouble free, spyware free, bloatware free, adware free operating system. IMO Windows isn't improving at all. What with AI coming on stream and all those "security issues" we are being warned about I suspect it will culminate in a veritable disaster.

Win 11 will be my plaything. Perhaps in time it will improve. Perhaps it will be like VISTA and eventually become a half decent OS. I'm old, and set in my ways, opinionated, and a stick in the mud. This suits me just fine. In the meantime, I'm glad I still have a functional version of Windows 7 on my PC that uses programs I can rely on, works fine with Office, doesn't give me buggy Paint, no nasties in my device manager, doesn't blue screen, and runs stable.

I realize my view isn't popular. We all want Windows to be so much better than it used to be. Well, sorry... It isn't.

Windows 7 still rules and I'm still waiting.

Don't make me laugh.

Windows 7 seriously needed to be revamped.

It had so many technicdl deficiences e.g. no secure boot, old bootloader, inability to mount isos, poor driver support (transferring OS to new pcs was very hit or miss), task manager often crashed, cancelling prints was flakey etc. etc. etc.

W7 worshippers are like people who are members of the Dub club (Volkswagen Beetles) - they look through rose coloured glasses.

Windows 8 had a major internal re-write and was actually quite good apart from the start menu fiasco (easily solved).

kelper · Oct 17, 2023

You could spend five minutes with an autounattend file generator and the resultant file can be used any time you do an install. You can even set it so only apps (bloatware) of your choice get installed.

pparks1 · Oct 17, 2023

Scannerman said:
Once again, Windows 10 seems a fine OS once all the surgery is done, but the user shouldn't have to do this to their OS simply to enjoy a trouble free, spyware free, bloatware free, adware free operating system.

I guess this is where we differ. I never found surgery necessary to run Windows 10 as I liked it. I never really cared about the telemetry stuff and the like.

I've read the comments that it's adware, spyware, and malware and I see what they are saying....but it's nothing that concerns me.

Scannerman said:
Windows 7 still rules and I'm still waiting.

I moved on from Windows 7 a long time ago. I have no interest in going back. But hey, if you like it, and you run it on your computer, that's all that matters. My opinion is irrelevant here.

Scannerman · Oct 17, 2023

cereberus said:
Don't make me laugh.

Windows 7 seriously needed to be revamped.

It had so many technicdl deficiences e.g. no secure boot, old bootloader, inability to mount isos, poor driver support (transferring OS to new pcs was very hit or miss), task manager often crashed, cancelling prints was flakey etc. etc. etc.

W7 worshippers are like people who are members of the Dub club (Volkswagen Beetles) - they look through rose coloured glasses.

Windows 8 had a major internal re-write and was actually quite good apart from the start menu fiasco (easily solved).

Oh, c'mon. A little laughter is good for the soul. By all means laugh. That's what friends are for.

All those petty issues you mentioned got ironed out over time to leave us with a superb OS. I'm hoping the same will happen to Win 11, but by the looks of things that's not going to happen. Win 12 is already on the horizon and we know what that means.

Methinks I'm quite a distance from the Pollyanna world of rose colored glasses. I'm just not that optimistic. I wear my sun glasses at night.

But for Windows 11 sake I'm hanging on, I'm hoping, I'm trying to be positive, really I am... If I weren't I would have already scrapped Win 11. For the record I drive a gas guzzling angry grandpa van. It suits me. It takes a licking and keeps on ticking.

That internal rewrite Win 8 had is called Windows 8.1. They really should have called it Windows 9 but that's another debate we likely don't need to get into. RIP Windows 8.1

I don't worship Windows anything. I'd just like to see Windows do something great for a change. Windows 7 was revolutionary. Yeah, I suppose it's hard to top a good thing once it finally arrives; but those days are gone now and I'm typing this on a blast from the past.

Make Windows Great Again! :lmao:

Scannerman · Oct 17, 2023

kelper said:
You could spend five minutes with an autounattend file generator and the resultant file can be used any time you do an install. You can even set it so only apps (bloatware) of your choice get installed.

Thank you, kelper. This was suggested to me once before and I'll look into it. So much to do, so little time.

hdmi · Oct 17, 2023

Scannerman said:
trying to be positive

Dru2 · Oct 18, 2023

pparks1 said:
I moved on from Windows 7 a long time ago. I have no interest in going back. But hey, if you like it, and you run it on your computer, that's all that matters. My opinion is irrelevant here.

LOL - I moved from Windows 7 when Windows 8 was released. Never looked back. If it wasn't for the fact that both my backup desktop and main laptop aren't 11 compatible, the only PC running Windows 10 would be my 2014 Asus laptop. And I rarely use it.

Regarding Windows 7 (Ultimate), I actually liked it. But then again, I'm one who builds a new PC every 4 years so hardware (and software) so hardware is always up to date. And the reason my current rig was compatible when 11 released.

But for me, once a new OS goes RTM, I dump the old and move to the new and never look back

TechnoMage2021 · Oct 18, 2023

I'll never understand human nature, well, some humans anyway.
They'll struggle for days, months or more with something that's not working.
Why? When something I have doesn't work, I FIX IT. IT's what I do. And have done all my life.
That's why I've worked as a "Fixer" for four of the worlds largest corp's involved in Technology.
It was fun, but I really preferred working in my own business. I retired from that when I was 62.

My hobby as a retiree, is not Golf, shuffleboard, chasing old ladies or Chess. Even hanging out in the bars, no longer holds any fascination for me. I'd rather be fixing something.
Like today, I put a new start rope on my little push mower. Then I tracked down a noise in my Riding Mower to a worn out pulley on the left blade. I replaced that pulley, with one off of another mower that no longer runs. I just keep it for parts.

Getting down on the ground to work on a Riding Mower, or change the oil in my car, isn't too bad, but the getting up is a real BEAST!
At 80, I don't just pop UP like I used to. But the very fact that I'm here is testimony that I did get up off of the ground several times today.

And, I'm still doing the "Windows Eleven Thing". Whatever that is!
But best of all, I'm doing it sans MS.

Cheers,
TM

Scannerman · Oct 18, 2023

LOL - I moved from Windows 7 when Windows 8 was released. Never looked back. If it wasn't for the fact that both my backup desktop and main laptop aren't 11 compatible, the only PC running Windows 10 would be my 2014 Asus laptop. And I rarely use it.

I rarely use my Dell laptop even though it came with a touch screen, NVMe, and an i7 chip. I only use it when I'm mobile or when I update it and I'm not mobile these days very often as I don't like driving on the highway at night. Good thing I didn't fork out for an ASUS.

Regarding Windows 7 (Ultimate), I actually liked it. But then again, I'm one who builds a new PC every 4 years so hardware (and software) so hardware is always up to date. And the reason my current rig was compatible when 11 released.

I'm still waiting for Windows to top Windows 7 Ultimate but I'm not holding my breath. I also used to be a guy who built a new PC for himself every 4 years but I stopped after the ASUS X570 HERO. I also used to be a bit of an ASUS fan boi but as I still build PCs for others I'm leaning toward Gigabyte these days. As it has been repeatedly pointed out to me here, times have changed (and I agree).

But for me, once a new OS goes RTM, I dump the old and move to the new and never look back

Here is where we differ and I celebrate the difference by responding to you in real time in Windows 7 Ultimate. When I attempted to upgrade my Windows 10 to Windows 11 it made a complete mess of my OS and I got nothing but a plethora of blue screens on my X570 rig. Windows still keeps sending me reminders that my PC is compatible with Windows 11 but Windows IT advised me on the phone to reinstall Windows 10 so that's what I did and that's where it stays.

Perhaps one day I will install Win 11 as a secondary OS on the HERO but I'm in no rush. Not even a backup recovery worked to save my OS the last time so I've learned not to depend on Windows backups. As long as I have drive images of my older OS handy I should be okay. This I've learned is really the only sort of backup I can count on.

It's nice to see we have a few things in common, Dru2. Thank you for sharing.

Scannerman · Oct 19, 2023

TechnoMage2021 said:
Like today, I put a new start rope on my little push mower. Then I tracked down a noise in my Riding Mower to a worn out pulley on the left blade. I replaced that pulley, with one off of another mower that no longer runs. I just keep it for parts.

Cheers,
TM

I wish I could get you to fix my push mower. It's barely two years old and I can't get it to start. lol :winkt:

Dru2 · Oct 19, 2023

Scannerman said:
LOL - I moved from Windows 7 when Windows 8 was released. Never looked back. If it wasn't for the fact that both my backup desktop and main laptop aren't 11 compatible, the only PC running Windows 10 would be my 2014 Asus laptop. And I rarely use it.

I rarely use my Dell laptop even though it came with a touch screen, NVMe, and an i7 chip. I only use it when I'm mobile or when I update it and I'm not mobile these days very often as I don't like driving on the highway at night. Good thing I didn't fork out for an ASUS.

Regarding Windows 7 (Ultimate), I actually liked it. But then again, I'm one who builds a new PC every 4 years so hardware (and software) so hardware is always up to date. And the reason my current rig was compatible when 11 released.

I'm still waiting for Windows to top Windows 7 Ultimate but I'm not holding my breath. I also used to be a guy who built a new PC for himself every 4 years but I stopped after the ASUS X570 HERO. I also used to be a bit of an ASUS fan boi but as I still build PCs for others I'm leaning toward Gigabyte these days. As it has been repeatedly pointed out to me here, times have changed (and I agree).

But for me, once a new OS goes RTM, I dump the old and move to the new and never look back

Here is where we differ and I celebrate the difference by responding to you in real time in Windows 7 Ultimate. When I attempted to upgrade my Windows 10 to Windows 11 it made a complete mess of my OS and I got nothing but a plethora of blue screens on my X570 rig. Windows still keeps sending me reminders that my PC is compatible with Windows 11 but Windows IT advised me on the phone to reinstall Windows 10 so that's what I did and that's where it stays.
,,,,,

If you're going to quote members, have the decency to credit the post you quoted. Even if I have an issue with some here, if I quote them, I give them the courtesy of crediting the post I quoted.

Dru2 said:
LOL - I moved from Windows 7 when Windows 8 was released. Never looked back. If it wasn't for the fact that both my backup desktop and main laptop aren't 11 compatible, the only PC running Windows 10 would be my 2014 Asus laptop. And I rarely use it.

Regarding Windows 7 (Ultimate), I actually liked it. But then again, I'm one who builds a new PC every 4 years so hardware (and software) so hardware is always up to date. And the reason my current rig was compatible when 11 released.

But for me, once a new OS goes RTM, I dump the old and move to the new and never look back

Have some courtesy.

Peace