Update on Windows 11 minimum system requirements

Superfly · Jul 2, 2021

Stigg said:
Has anyone tried WinPass11?

WinPass11 (GitHub)
GitHub Releases.

See my previous post - I left out the reply goody-gat in that post

Mark Phelps · Jul 2, 2021

jh30uk said:
Take it up with MS not me, I posted that screenie multiple times that shows what is what.

View attachment 1673

Yeah -- and I have cited that numerous times as MS failing to support what they said.

I was commenting on the statement "dev channel is allowed for all". I thought it was true, too -- based on what MS said -- but later learned it was a lie.

jh30uk · Jul 2, 2021

fafhrd · Jul 2, 2021

jessewilliams56 said:
@jen1 but the problem is, Microsoft will probably block the upgrade from happening to Windows 11 from Windows 10 if they have unsupported hardware. The only way around it, is as others have mentioned, provide a workaround, hack, etc. to get it to go through. Microsoft just wants people to buy new computers. It is just a money making thing. Microsoft doesn't care about their customers. They care about the money from their customers.

The point is, to Microsoft, we are not their customers, we are simply users. The customers are the OEMs that bundle Windows on millions of new devices, and the enterprises that bulk buy licenses and support packages. If they can make a buck from us too, MS won't complain. If they lose a few of us to Chromebooks, Mac or Linux, they know that we will come back to them when our kids need a new PC for college, or our laptop dies inconveniently, because Windows will be on the new OEM device we get.

I've compared them many times in the past to drug pushers, the analogy fits.

Windows 10 was a stopgap, in place long enough to kill off Windows 7 completely. Like the Roman Emperors, Microsoft loves its baby sons and daughters, but when they begin to mature, it has no compunction about killing them off.

Microsoft Windows was long ago described as: "A 32 bit extension and graphical shell to a 16 bit patch over an 8 bit operating system originally coded for a 4 bit microprocessor which was written by a 2 bit company that does not care 1 bit about its users." Nothing changes.

sgage · Jul 2, 2021

fafhrd said:
The point is, to Microsoft, we are not their customers, we are simply users. The customers are the OEMs that bundle Windows on millions of new devices, and the enterprises that bulk buy licenses and support packages. If they can make a buck from us too, MS won't complain. If they lose a few of us to Chromebooks, Mac or Linux, they know that we will come back to them when our kids need a new PC for college, or our laptop dies inconveniently, because Windows will be on the new OEM device we get.

I've compared them many times in the past to drug pushers, the analogy fits.

Windows 10 was a stopgap, in place long enough to kill off Windows 7 completely. Like the Roman Emperors, Microsoft loves its baby sons and daughters, but when they begin to mature, it has no compunction about killing them off.

Microsoft Windows was long ago described as: "A 32 bit extension and graphical shell to a 16 bit patch over an 8 bit operating system originally coded for a 4 bit microprocessor which was written by a 2 bit company that does not care 1 bit about its users." Nothing changes.

Then just stop using Windows - you can do it, you know. For some people, it's easy. For others, an inconvenience. What a bunch of entitled whining. Win10 is going to be fully supported for 4 more years - you have lots of time to wean yourself of your terrible drug habit.

fafhrd · Jul 2, 2021

I like Windows, I've used it since Windows 2.0, back in 1989, it's Microsoft's lies and hubris that gets my goat! There have been bad and good versions, and 10 has been OK, 11 has upset me as an "insider" since 2015, in that the changes to this new version have not been tested on the people who have been constant unpaid beta testers over the past 6 years.

In terms of mainlining "what made Redmond famous", I'll probably be dead within the next 3.

sgage · Jul 2, 2021

fafhrd said:
I like Windows, I've used it since Windows 2.0, back in 1989, it's Microsoft's lies and hubris that gets my goat! There have been bad and good versions, and 10 has been OK, 11 has upset me as an "insider" since 2015, in that the changes to this new version have not been tested on the people who have been constant unpaid beta testers over the past 6 years.

In terms of mainlining "what made Redmond famous", I'll probably be dead within the next 3.

That's why I didn't go cold turkey - I tapered off over years, and one day, the monkey was off my back

I only care about Windows anymore because my GF needs it for finishing her PhD research - she's on Linux most of the time, and when she's done with the doctorate, will migrate fully. She does not need Win11 at all. I'm on Linux 95% of the time. I just come over to Windows once in a while because it came on my computer, I'm retired, and I have time on my hands

I, too, have used Windows since the very beginning (and DOS before that, and CP/M before that), so there's inertia and maybe a little nostalgia involved...

fafhrd · Jul 2, 2021

sgage said:
That's why I didn't go cold turkey - I tapered off over years, and one day, the monkey was off my back :) I only care about Windows anymore because my GF needs it for finishing her PhD research - she's on Linux most of the time, and when she's done with the doctorate, will migrate fully. She does not need Win11 at all. I'm on Linux 95% of the time. I just come over to Windows once in a while because it came on my computer, I'm retired, and I have time on my hands :) I, too, have used Windows since the very beginning (and DOS before that, and CP/M before that), so there's inertia and maybe a little nostalgia involved...

Couldn't agree more. If 11 is as unpalatable as I found Vista to be, I shall be heading over to Ubuntu Studio for a couple of years and being creative for a change. Also retired, but 3 years since my wife passed away, I am not looking to share my life with anyone but my dog and 2 cats. So I have not been very active on TF since 2018. A new Windows version is exciting, or at least it has been in the past. If it is basically another Windows 8 experiment it will fail, and I will have very little part in it! Nostalgia ain't what it used to be!

sgage · Jul 2, 2021

fafhrd said:
Nostalgia ain't what it used to be!

One of my favorite aphorisms!
Sorry about your wife...

bobkn · Jul 2, 2021

fafhrd said:
Couldn't agree more. If 11 is as unpalatable as I found Vista to be, I shall be heading over to Ubuntu Studio for a couple of years and being creative for a change. Also retired, but 3 years since my wife passed away, I am not looking to share my life with anyone but my dog and 2 cats. So I have not been very active on TF since 2018. A new Windows version is exciting, or at least it has been in the past. If it is basically another Windows 8 experiment it will fail, and I will have very little part in it! Nostalgia ain't what it used to be!

I have seen no evidence that 11 will include anything a fouled up as the "Metro" (original name) stuff introduced in 8.

I can't guess whether the changes in 11 will drive you away from it, or just inspire yawns.

fafhrd · Jul 2, 2021

My solution to "Metro" was to avoid using almost all of Start and Explorer, by employing the Taskbar Desktop Toolbar, as I had before in Windows 7. This worked in 10 too, so, going back some 11 or 12 years, I used Windows 7-10 in a way that the changes to the taskbar in 11 have totally scuppered. To give you an idea, here's an early Eightforums post of mine: I don't miss Start Menu at all: Here's Why

i486 · Jul 2, 2021

jen1 said:
OMG! Still not convinced?

It is not about how many errata, it is that the 6th gen has a different architecture than the 7th and the 8th gen.

For you all, if you have a vulnerable hardware that doesn't mean you can't install Windows 11, on the contrary you will be more vulnerable if you still using windows 10, i think it is more advised to update to windows 11 if you have unsupported hardware LOL.

The 7th Intel generation is vulnerable to Meltdown/Spectre variants on hardware level, and I bet Microsoft never really cared about CPU security holes other than Spectre, the greatest of those vulnerabilities made public late 2017. It's almost insulting that we should consider Kaby Lake as anything other than Skylake 1.5, Intel would of course want to brand it as a new and completely different architecture. Kaby Lake's own chipset does enable some performance improvements, but the CPUs are also compatible with the Skylake chipset Z170.

So how are those minor differences between these two CPU generations significant to Windows 11? Is there something you know and the rest of us don't? If Microsoft's reason is indeed later confirmed to be security, then it would make sense if the 8th generation, with its severe hardware level vulnerabilities, was also excluded from compatible CPUs. I think its only saving grace is that it's still new enough.

NavyLCDR said:
If you remember when Windows 10 first rolled out, many computers were not offered the upgrade via Windows update due to incompatible hardware. Thousands of users simply downloaded the ISO file and updated with it and then were in the normal Windows 10 update cycle. Even now many users don't get feature upgrades via Windows Update and simply download the new ISO file and upgrade that way. I expect Windows 11 will be no different. I think there is way too much concern and hype surrounding "unsupported hardware".

I was on an Ivy Bridge platform in 2015 and got the "upgrade reservation" app like everyone else, upgrade itself was smooth. Little did it matter that Intel Ivy Bridges weren't officially supported...

jen1 · Jul 2, 2021

i486 said:
The 7th Intel generation is vulnerable to Meltdown/Spectre variants on hardware level, and I bet Microsoft never really cared about CPU security holes other than Spectre, the greatest of those vulnerabilities made public late 2017. It's almost insulting that we should consider Kaby Lake as anything other than Skylake 1.5, Intel would of course want to brand it as a new and completely different architecture. Kaby Lake's own chipset does enable some performance improvements, but the CPUs are also compatible with the Skylake chipset Z170.

So how are those minor differences between these two CPU generations significant to Windows 11? Is there something you know and the rest of us don't? If Microsoft's reason is indeed later confirmed to be security, then it would make sense if the 8th generation, with its severe hardware level vulnerabilities, was also excluded from compatible CPUs.

I was on an Ivy Bridge platform in 2015 and got the "upgrade reservation" app like everyone else, upgrade itself was smooth. Little did it matter that Intel Ivy Bridges weren't officially supported...

If the table in the wiki page and the release not documents for 6 and 7&8 didn't convince you, here is my last try.

The 6th gen has stepping 3, while both the 7th and the 8th gen have stepping 9, if this didn't convince you I don't know what to say.

I am guessing you own a 6th gen CPU and you can't accept the fact that the 6th gen is not as good the 7th and the 8th gen, if I can make it easy for you I have 7th gen and I think that the 8th gen is better than mine although they have the same release note LOL.

Just let it go, the 6th gen is not the same as the 7th and the 8th gen, just let it go

i486 · Jul 2, 2021

jen1 said:
If the table in the wiki page and the release not documents for 6 and 7&8 didn't convince you, here is my last try.

The 6th gen has stepping 3, while both the 7th and the 8th gen have stepping 9, if this didn't convince you I don't know what to say.

I am guessing you own a 6th gen CPU and you can't accept the fact that the 6th gen is not as good the 7th and the 8th gen, if I can make it easy for you I have 7th gen and I think that the 8th gen is better than mine although they have the same release note LOL.

Just let it go, the 6th gen is not the same as the 7th and the 8th gen, just let it go

And stepping 9 is supposed to make 7th and 8th secure enough for Windows 11? Explain how, the burden of proof is on you. For reference, there are some much older architectures that share stepping 9 with those two, and based on that table it seems like knowing the stepping is only useful in finding the correct microcode image for your CPU.

Both 7th and 8th must rely on firmware and software patches to become fully(?) protected against Spectre and Meltdown variants, just like the 6th. That same table proves that. Intel did not make changes to their architectures while they were still being manufactured, so the support rests mostly on Microsoft now that the motherboard manufacturers are starting to drop support for their older models. Are you saying that those microcode fixes distributed by Intel & Microsoft can make the 7th and 8th generation Intel CPUs more secure than the 6th? Why didn't you say so earlier.

And yes I do have a Skylake platform, so I'm rightfully pissed off at Microsoft. I don't need to know how the "new & improved" products are better than the old one I have, I only need to know why Windows 11 needs the newer ones. Microsoft doesn't have to communicate these things to the public, but their silence breaks what little trust there's between them and their customers.

exploder · Jul 2, 2021

My newer HP laptop meets the requirements and runs Windows 11 just fine. I ordered a new Dell XPS system that should also run Windows 11 well. I wasn't happy about it, I have 4 Precision Workstations that run Windows 10 great but are too old for 11.

I finally came to the conclusion that it as good a time as any to go with new hardware. Security is a big concern these days, I have plenty of support time remaining for the workstations and have no problem with running Linux on them if need be. I am not rich by any means but I got the new computer for about half the price they are selling for.

I do think Microsoft should relax the requirements, have them be for the best experience and allow anything 64 bit that can run 10, run 11. After all, even most big corporations can not meet these requirements with their current systems. My shop for example has a lot of Optiplex 9020 desktops and I am sure many others are in a similar situation.

With shortages and sky high prices, it's not a good time for anyone to upgrade hardware. I do not see Windows 11 as being another ME, Vista or Win 8 but it is going to cause a lot of confusion for a lot of people.

i486 · Jul 2, 2021

fafhrd said:
The point is, to Microsoft, we are not their customers, we are simply users.

We are the product. Funnily, this usually only applies to freeware. Microsoft has its users pay for the priviledge too.

fafhrd said:
I've compared them many times in the past to drug pushers, the analogy fits.

Couldn't help but to think how important it is in both fields that you introduce users to your "product" as early as possible. That is what market penetration into the low cost seqment (schools essentially) represents. Early indoctrination, pure and simple.

sgage said:
Then just stop using Windows - you can do it, you know. For some people, it's easy. For others, an inconvenience. What a bunch of entitled whining. Win10 is going to be fully supported for 4 more years - you have lots of time to wean yourself of your terrible drug habit.

Please don't use the entitlement card, or someone will trump it with the apologist card. We pay for Windows, we are entitled to both praise and criticize it. The latter is what some would call feedback. It's clear Microsoft is now too big to hear it from private users, OEMs and enterprises are a much larger piece of their cake.

Berton · Jul 2, 2021

This whole thing about TPM is confusing, I'm on the Insider Preview Dev channel and very early this morning it automatically upgraded Win10 Pro to Win11, it does look interesting but appears to be lots of little changes. My confusion is the 64-bit computer does not support UEFI in the BIOS and does not support TPM so it leaves the question of why.

NavyLCDR · Jul 2, 2021

Berton said:
This whole thing about TPM is confusing, I'm on the Insider Preview Dev channel and very early this morning it automatically upgraded Win10 Pro to Win11, it does look interesting but appears to be lots of little changes. My confusion is the 64-bit computer does not support UEFI in the BIOS and does not support TPM so it leaves the question of why.

My computer is UEFI and it does support TPM. However, I disabled TPM in BIOS for testing. I cannot get an upgrade from Windows 10 to 11 to work, even with the registry keys installed to bypass the checks. I get the error message that I need TPM 2.0. I've tried upgrading both with the ISO file and through Windows Update. Maybe mine won't upgrade because it is an UEFI install already.

Bree · Jul 3, 2021

Regarding the processor requirements, it is interesting to compare the Win11 minimum supported processors with those of Win10, Win8.1 or Win7.

Apparently Microsoft don't support any Intel processor earlier than 5th gen for any of those, not even Win7. The difference is that the installers for W10/8.1/7 don't enforce these minimum processor requirements, the current Win11 installer is apparently the first to do so.

Windows Processor Requirements

This specification details the processors that can be used by OEMs to manufacture Customer Systems that include Windows Products (including Custom Images).

docs.microsoft.com

sgage · Jul 3, 2021

i486 said:
Please don't use the entitlement card, or someone will trump it with the apologist card. We pay for Windows, we are entitled to both praise and criticize it. The latter is what some would call feedback. It's clear Microsoft is now too big to hear it from private users, OEMs and enterprises are a much larger piece of their cake.

I'm not using any cards. I'm talking about something different than praising/criticizing Windows. I have been pretty relentless over the years in my calling out of Microsoft's (sometimes astonishingly) slipshod programming, weird regressions, and crazy UI experiments. And to suggest that I am an MS apologist is simply laughable.

I'm talking about the expectation that everyone should have access to the first week of alpha availability of a new version of Windows. The expectation that there would be no miss-steps or bumbling by MS in all defiance of the last 5-6 years of Win10 experience. And the expectation that new versions of Windows should support old hardware into perpetuity. And when those expectations aren't met, a chorus of hysterical, breathless, spluttering outrage - really over the top in some cases. That's what I meant by 'entitled'.