Solved Authenticator apps - Issues and ease of use

wiganken · Wednesday at 8:36 AM

Bastet said:
ensuring you don’t lose access to accounts

Okay, I am picking things up slowly and I am getting the idea that having one authenticator app on the phone (and none on my Windows devices) seems to be the way people use authenticator apps .i.e. The phone authenticator app is used to authenticate sign-ins on both phone and on Windows devices. Is this right?
If so, then I can see why the backups are important in case the phone breaks, is lost or is stolen and a new phone has to be used.

Maybe I'll be brave enough to try an authenticator app (that has cloud storage) out starting with a website that I deem unimportant in case I get it wrong.

I'll do some research on such apps. Thank you again.

Bastet · Wednesday at 9:55 AM

wiganken said:
Okay, I am picking things up slowly and I am getting the idea that having one authenticator app on the phone (and none on my Windows devices) seems to be the way people use authenticator apps .i.e. The phone authenticator app is used to authenticate sign-ins on both phone and on Windows devices. Is this right?
If so, then I can see why the backups are important in case the phone breaks, is lost or is stolen and a new phone has to be used.

Maybe I'll be brave enough to try an authenticator app (that has cloud storage) out starting with a website that I deem unimportant in case I get it wrong.
I'll do some research on such apps. Thank you again.

I have MS Authenticator on all my iPhones & iPad which does come in useful should one fail.
If you save the backup codes as well then technically you can never get locked out of the account.

If you’re going to test (which is a good way to learn about the app & 2fa) then I’d also recommend trying recovery (you’d need to delete the app & download it again) to learn about that feature.

You’re welcome.

wiganken · Wednesday at 10:44 AM

Re MS Authenticator - I see it has to be linked to your MS account so does this mean I have to be signed into my MS account on both my Windows devices? I am not signed in. I prefer to use local accounts. Does this preclude me from using MS Authenticator?

pseymour · Wednesday at 10:52 AM

The signin is for the authenticator app itself; that is, you’re signing in just in the MS Authenticator. It’s so if can backup your MFA data.

You don’t need to sign in to anything else with your Microsoft account.

JAM83 · Wednesday at 11:21 AM

wiganken said:
Websites are strengthening their security and I am being prompted to install a third party authenticator app so I have questions: -
I have an Android phone and two Windows 11 devices.
I understand the phone needs the Google Authenticator app and the Windows devices need the Microsoft Authenticator app.

Q1 - Do I install the app on my phone and use just that one device for all three devices or do I need to install an app on each device.

Q2 - Are these apps easy to use?

Q3 - Has anyone had bad experiences or problems using them?

View attachment 136321

View attachment 136322

I have Google Authenticator, and I use it for Facebook, Twitter, eBay, PayPal

Bastet · Wednesday at 11:46 AM

wiganken said:
Re MS Authenticator - I see it has to be linked to your MS account so does this mean I have to be signed into my MS account on both my Windows devices? I am not signed in. I prefer to use local accounts. Does this preclude me from using MS Authenticator?

It’s just to sign in to the app & to use 2fa on your MS account. I don’t know how that would work when signing into Windows with a local account.

wiganken · Wednesday at 1:44 PM

antspants said:
However MS Authenticator is shying away from autofilling username & passwords. Support for them in the app is going soon, apparently.

I have just installed MSA and it confirms this with a notification showing "Autofill via Authenticator ends in July 2025". At least we are warned.
I like the ability to store backups in the MS cloud account. Google Authenticator doesn't support this.
I'll start experimenting with it in the coming days.

kelper · Wednesday at 2:29 PM

MS Authenticator will stop managing PASSWORDS. These will stiil be available in the Edge browser , but not other browsers.

This is a bit of control freakery and I would never use MS Authenticator for that reason.

pseymour · Wednesday at 2:48 PM

I’m the opposite. I rather intentionally separate my MFA and password database. Eggs and baskets, etc.

wiganken · Thursday at 8:12 AM

I have installed MS Authenticator but not used it yet.
I have also continued researching other authenticators and found 2FAS, which is open source. It stores encrypted tokens on Google Drive and also works offline. I don't know if it is supported by all websites but it seems that all browsers support it.

2FAS Review

Authenticating your online accounts is a secure and simple process with open-source 2FAS, which benefits from impressive browser extension performance and minimal mobile app data collection.

www.pcmag.com

2FAS

An excellent open-source, easy-to-use authenticator app and browser extension

au.pcmag.com

Question - Has anyone any knowledge on 2FAS?

telepro21 · Thursday at 8:41 AM

Over the years, I have used Google Authenticator (no longer used), MS Authenticator (still used a bit), and Yubico Authenticator with a YubiKey (used extensively).
Any time you see a website suggest the use of Google or MS authenticators, one can use Yubico Authenticator.
I have this installed on my PC and on my Android phone. (Yubico authenticator will read QR codes displayed on your PC.)

The reason that I use this method is because I carry a physical Yubico key (always on my person) that is actually the 2FA device.
Without the physical device, my accounts are harder for nefarious individuals to access.
My YubiKey uses the NFC chip in my Android phone (when I turn the NFC chip on) to interact with my phone and its USB port to interact with my PC.

Also, the YubiKey can be used to store FIDO credentials and Passkeys as well.

There is no one approach to on-line account security. Ultimately, each of us must select the method that works best for us.

wiganken · Thursday at 10:19 AM

telepro21 said:
Over the years, I have used Google Authenticator (no longer used), MS Authenticator

I'm new to this so bear with me. I am probably wrong but here goes: -
I thought that when you are signed in to a website (on a Windows device) you go to the security menu and turn on 2FA and you will see a list of Authenticators that the website supports. You then pick the one you want to use and a QR code is displayed on the screen. You then scan the QR code with your phone camera to link phone and?
I don't know if the authenticator also needs adding to the Windows web browser as an extension?

Secondly - If you have told a website that you are using Google Authenticator this will store tokens that are not accessible if you switch to MS Authenticator. In order to switch (like you have done) do you need both Authenticators installed on your phone until you have completed the switch?

As you can see I am floundering.

This authentication process seems very complicated and I am considering giving up the idea of using them. Authenticator apps are obviously more secure but the process of understanding how they work and what future complications they might cause is putting me off.

I have very strong passwords that are not shared with multiple websites. Each PW is for that website only so I'll stay as-is and hope for the best.

telepro21 · Thursday at 11:52 AM

wiganken said:
I'm new to this so bear with me. I am probably wrong but here goes: -
I thought that when you are signed in to a website (on a Windows device) you go to the security menu and turn on 2FA and you will see a list of Authenticators that the website supports. You then pick the one you want to use and a QR code is displayed on the screen.

Correct

wiganken said:
You then scan the QR code with your phone camera to link phone and?

Scanning the QR code displayed on the website with your chosen Authenticator app will create the necessary information for that website within your Authenticator app. You will use your chosen Authenticator app as your 2FA (Second Factor) authentication method.

wiganken said:
I don't know if the authenticator also needs adding to the Windows web browser as an extension?

A browser extension is not necessary. When you visit a website in which you have setup 2FA with your selected Authenticator app on your phone, you will input the code from your authenticator on your phone into the website's field requesting the 2FA information.

wiganken said:
Secondly - If you have told a website that you are using Google Authenticator this will store tokens that are not accessible if you switch to MS Authenticator. In order to switch (like you have done) do you need both Authenticators installed on your phone until you have completed the switch?

You will setup each authenticator app for a given website on its own. If you have set up Google Authenticator and wish to now use MS Authenticator, you will need to enroll MS Authenticator directly to that web site. There is no import/export between the apps as this is a security risk.

wiganken said:
As you can see I am floundering.

This authentication process seems very complicated and I am considering giving up the idea of using them. Authenticator apps are obviously more secure but the process of understanding how they work and what future complications they might cause is putting me off.
I have very strong passwords that are not shared with multiple websites. Each PW is for that website only so I'll stay as-is and hope for the best.

Moving to a higher security mechanism requires study and evaluation. Take things slowly.
I would recommend reviewing other security threads and even YouTube videos on this topic.

Hope this helps!

kelper · Thursday at 12:14 PM

I have never seen a website offer a choice of authenticators to use.

wiganken · Thursday at 12:46 PM

kelper said:
I have never seen a website offer a choice of authenticators to use.

Oh! Thank you for this pointer.
So you simply turn on 2FA in your browser and when you sign in to a website that offers 2FA Authenticator a QR code will be displayed, which you then scan with whichever authenticator app you have on your phone?

Since the phone authenticator app is simply scanning a QR code then is it correct to say that any app should work with most websites and there is no need for a second authenticator app on the phone for those websites it can't work with (like gov.co.uk, who use their own authentication method)?

Has anybody found it necessary to have two authenticator apps on their phone? It sounds a recipe for confusion further down the line not knowing which app is associated with which website.

pseymour · Thursday at 12:58 PM

You know which app is for which accounts, because they have labels in the auth app. For example, I have entries for 11 Forum and 12 Forum, and I know which one is which.

kelper · Thursday at 12:59 PM

On Android, you have to select which authenticator you wish to use. You can install many but have to pick a default.

It's early days and I have struggled to get some websites to work properly with Passphrases and PassKeys, so do keep a backup of all your passwords.

Helmuuth · Thursday at 1:03 PM

security is the top issue i have. 10 years ago it wasnt as complicated /volatile as it is now. that being said i use google authy on my one device. and use a passkey on my most sensitive accts.

kelper · Thursday at 1:06 PM

Authy and Google are completely separate.

Flipmode · Thursday at 4:53 PM

Avoid! Avoid! Avoid!

You are much wiser to integrate your OTP system with your password manager.
I would recommend Bitwarden as open source and if you choose to upgrade, it is VERY economic. All-in-one approach. Plus have Windows App + Web App + Mobile Apps. Totally universal.

If you don't want to use Bitwarden. Then avoid Microsoft and Google etc who have too much control of your data. Instead go for an Open Source platform, which you can vet and know will be safe and secure - I highly recommend Authy. Please do not get your data stuck in a proprietary system that makes life difficult to move away.

I would not recommend any other systems other than Bitwarden and Authy.

telepro21 said:
Any time you see a website suggest the use of Google or MS authenticators, one can use Yubico Authenticator.

Very true! There is always the hidden "use my own" to hunt down...

Solved Authenticator apps - Issues and ease of use

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