Solved Cannot access USB hard disks, only USB flash drives

spapakons said:

Any 3 is faster than USB 2.0, so it is welcome. Are there USB 4.0 PCIe cards?

Click to expand...

The short answer is yes.

BUT

This does not come without caveats. 1) You will likely need PCIe Gen4. 2) Placement of card is extremely limited to a specific PCIe slot and *NOT* all system boards have them. 3) The drivers are frequently finicky and often only work with certain system boards. ASUS (and other manufacturers) have kept the fine tradition of ensuring that this information stays on the hush. They pulled the same chicanery with Thunderbolt where the card had to be placed in a 16X_2 slot which is typically BEHIND the discreet graphics card and therefore unreachable. Please don't even suggest expansion or riser cables. This is what I'm currently struggling with and have not yet found a proper solution to the problem.


USB4 CARD

spapakons said:

Any 3 is faster than USB 2.0, so it is welcome. Are there USB 4.0 PCIe cards? I am in no hurry to replace my recently bought combo USB 3.0 and SATA III PCIe card, just curious.

Click to expand...

Are you able to use your combo card with USB 3.0? If so how fast are the USB 3.0 ports with a hard drive?

Like I mentioned in Post #16 the one I use really makes a difference since the motherboard only has USB 2.0 ports. Here is a speed test I made with a 6TB WD My Book external hard drive connected to USB 3.0 with the PCIe card. Note if the hard drive is connected to a USB 2.0 port I only get about 40-50 MB/s.

See my previous post. The USB flash drive was connected on the card.

Scannerman said:

The short answer is yes.

BUT

This does not come without caveats. 1) You will likely need PCIe Gen4. 2) Placement of card is extremely limited to a specific PCIe slot and *NOT* all system boards have them. 3) The drivers are frequently finicky and often only work with certain system boards. ASUS (and other manufacturers) have kept the fine tradition of ensuring that this information stays on the hush. They pulled the same chicanery with Thunderbolt where the card had to be placed in a 16X_2 slot which is typically BEHIND the discreet graphics card and therefore unreachable. Please don't even suggest expansion or riser cables. This is what I'm currently struggling with and have not yet found a proper solution to the problem.


USB4 CARD

Click to expand...

I just saw pictures of the USB 4 card. Is USB 4 only Type-C now? What about old USB 2.0 and USB 3.0 devices? Should we use Type-C to type A adapters?

To save you reading all the posts, here is the combo card I have:


Here is the score of my Sandisk USB 3.0 flash drive connected to the powered USB 3.0 hub which in turn is connected on a USB 3.0 port of the combo card:


These in Mbit/sec are 1023.76Mbit/sec read speed and 455.92Mbit/sec write speed and so on. USB 2.0 theoretical maximum is 480Mbit/sec which of course is almost never reached. Without the powered hub the figures are a little lower, so I recommend that you also use a powered USB 3.0 hub. It helps boost performance and also can detect anything, while without it my combo card could list the contents on my external 5TB USB HDD but gave an error when trying to transfer files. That's why I bought the powered USB 3.0 hub as explained in an earlier post. Since my issue is solved, I marked the thread as solved.

PS: If you buy the same card, DON'T install the included drivers or it won't recognize any USB device and you may even get a BSOD. Windows 11 automatically install the appropriate drivers for both the SATA III controller and the USB 3.0 ports. In fact I disconnected my Windows SSD from the onboard SATA II port and connected it on the SATA III of the card. When I tried to boot the first time, I was prepared for a BSOD and was thinking of possible solutions. To my surprise, Windows found the appropriate driver for the SATA III controller and booted without issues! Needless to say it is faster. Not running at full speed because my PCIe slot is version 3.0, but who cares! It is still faster than when connected to SATA II.

The higher speeds are going to be highly dependent on the bus connections as much as anything else. The PCIe 3.0 X1 bus connection, for instance, gets around 1GB/sec max transfer speed. A PCIe 3.4 X1 bus connection will do around 2GB/sec max. Each added lane adds to the speed, so the PCIe 3.0 X2 bus connection would be 2GB/sec, and the PCIe 3.0 X4 bus connection would be 4GB/sec. because of the added lanes.

Obviously, all devices on a particular bus connection share that bandwidth, and there is some overhead, probably 15-20% that you don't realize. So a USB 3.0 and SATA III board is sharing the bandwidth of the single PCIe bus connection in your system. If both interfaces are active, you clearly get much less possible bandwidth for each device.

spapakons said:

I just saw pictures of the USB 4 card. Is USB 4 only Type-C now? What about old USB 2.0 and USB 3.0 devices? Should we use Type-C to type A adapters?

Click to expand...

Yes, USB 4 will be type-C connections. You can use the adapters, and they will slow down the max speed of that particular connection, probably to either 5Gb/sec or perhaps 10Gb/sec. I don't think a type-A USB connection can handle more than 10Gb/sec.

USB 3.x max is 20Gbps in the 2x2 variety on a type A port, but those are rare. More typically they max out at 10 Gbps or 5 Gbps. On USB-C we are up to 120 Gbps so far. Add up to 240W power delivery on USB-C and it's just a great way to connect devices.

EDIT: I should add that I have never personally run into a USB Type A that could do 20 Gbps, but the claim is that it exists.

hsehestedt said:

USB 3.x max is 20Gbps in the 2x2 variety on a type A port, but those are rare. More typically they max out at 10 Gbps or 5 Gbps. On USB-C we are up to 120 Gbps so far. Add up to 240W power delivery on USB-C and it's just a great way to connect devices.

EDIT: I should add that I have never personally run into a USB Type A that could do 20 Gbps, but the claim is that it exists.

Click to expand...

I've never seen a USB Type-A port that would do 20 Gbps either. I think everything is rapidly moving to the equally confusing USB-C standard.

I don't except my old USB devices to work any faster as by magic just because they are connected to a USB4 port. However if I want to connect an old USB 2.0 or USB 3.0 device to a USB4 port in my future computer, I want to know if this is possible by simply converting the old USB cable plug from type A male to type-C male. I bet it is. Much like old USB 2.0 devices can be used on a USB 3.0 or higher port.

gunrunnerjohn said:

I've never seen a USB Type-A port that would do 20 Gbps either. I think everything is rapidly moving to the equally confusing USB-C standard.

Click to expand...

SMH I'm still trying to get that with Thunderbolt 3 never mind standard USB C. I came close but then Win 11 happened and now for some reason I can't get it work anymore even with the driver updates.

Scannerman said:

Don't you mean USB 3.1? The nomenclature got changed, right?

Click to expand...

I think they did that so that they could make me even more confused than what I was when it comes to USB.

gunrunnerjohn said:

USB 3.2 Gen 1 has a maximum theoretical data transfer speed of 5 gigabits per second (Gbps), or 5,000 megabits per second (Mbps). This standard was previously known by several names, including USB 3.0 and USB 3.1 Gen 1. I just use USB 3.0 to describe any of these ports with a USB-A connection as the characteristics are the same.

USB 3.2 and 3.1 Explained: What's Gen 1, Gen 2 and Gen 2x2?​

As you can see, the USB types and generations area a mish-mash of specifications that are obviously meant to confuse mere mortals.

Click to expand...

And I happen to be one of them. I do have to admit that I'm slowly starting to get a better understanding.

gunrunnerjohn said:

Yep, it hasn't sunk in that they screwed up with the previous naming, so they're just continuing the confusion!

Click to expand...

IMO, it's because they don't want to admit that they (keeping it family oriented) messed up.

It is not that hard to remember. In theory each higher number is faster than the lower number, so:

USB 1.1 < USB 2.0 < USB 3.0 < USB 3.1 < USB 3.2 < USB4

Similarly for generations Gen 1 < Gen 2 < Gen 3.

So a USB 3.1 flash drive should be faster than an older USB 3.0 flash drive.

Needless to say that every USB device works at maximum of its speed at same version USB port. Putting it in a faster port doesn't make any difference, but putting it on a slower port, such as a USB 3.0 flash drive on a USB 2.0 port, it will obviously work slower. The actual speeds are not necessary to remember, the theoretical maximum is only reached under perfect conditions, which in practice this means never. No USB 2.0 device for example can reach the theoretical maximum of 480Mbps, putting it in a USB 3.0 or faster port makes no difference.

spapakons said:

So a USB 3.1 flash drive should be faster than an older USB 3.0 flash drive.

Click to expand...

There's the rub, USB 3.0, 3.1, and 3.2 are all 5Gbps transfer rate standards. It's only when you start tacking on the Gen1, Gen2, Gen 2x2, etc. that the speeds change.

Probably they have the same speed as USB 3.0 for backwards compatibility with USB 3.0 devices, but USB 3.1 or 3.2 devices should work faster on these ports than connected to an older USB 3.0 port, otherwise there would be no point having one.

spapakons said:

Probably they have the same speed as USB 3.0 for backwards compatibility with USB 3.0 devices, but USB 3.1 or 3.2 devices should work faster on these ports than connected to an older USB 3.0 port, otherwise there would be no point having one.

Click to expand...

Did you look at my reference?

USB 3.2 and 3.1 Explained: What's Gen 1, Gen 2 and Gen 2x2?​

No, but I will.