Can't Get Surface Pro 3 to do 4K @ 60Hz

spapakons said:

As I said, in cinema the movie rate is 24fps but is displayed at 3 times or more this rate by repeating the same frame, so there is no flicker. I also said in an earlier post that the OP cannot select 3840x2160 at 60Hz because the graphics card doesn't list this display mode, so Windows think is not possible and hide it. He has to add this mode as a custom resolution and then it will be available in monitor settings. Open Intel Control Panel, add this mode and then enable it. If using automatic screen timing doesn't allow you to add this mode, try using CVS-RB timing. My nVidia GeForce 610 GT can do 3840x2160 at 30Hz via HDMI, but the mode wasn't available by default. I had to add it as a custom resolution.

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Seems improbable, but I can't pretend to know.

A GT 610 is an old (2012 launch), low-end GPU. I doubt that nVidia expected it to be used to drive UHD displays, even at 30 Hz. Maybe their drivers reflected that, even though that resolution is within the spec range for the card. Pure speculation.

The OP's issue could be related to using a TV as a monitor. The handshaking issues may make that more problematic than using a purpose-made PC monitor.

I have an LG UHD TV. My main PC has an nVidia GeForce 620 GT card. No matter what I did, I could not enable 3840x2160 at 60Hz, only 30Hz since probably my card's HDMI is v1.4 and cannot provide enough bandwidth. Is the OP sure his card's HDMI is v2.0 ? If he positively is sure, the only reasonable explanation is that the graphics card capabilities or the TV capabilities are not communicated properly to Windows which hide any "unsupported" modes. CRU should inform Windows that the TV supports 3840x2160 at 60Hz. The next step is to add this mode as a custom resolution to convince Windows it is supported and let him apply it.

spapakons said:

Even my card's 3840x2160 at 30Hz is fine. You won't notice any difference since the whole screen remains visible and it refreshes 30 times per second, almost the same rate as NTSC footage. Old CRT monitors would show flicker because the eye sees a moving dot rather than the whole image frame. To eliminate flicker in an old CRT monitor the screen must be refreshed at least 40 times per second. So PAL TVs didn't have flicker at 50Hz. Trying to watch 50Hz PAL footage on an NTSC 60Hz monitor does show flicker because the standards conversion of the time wasn't perfect. That is why Americans have the wrong impression that 50Hz TVs show flicker. Certainly not. Watching 50Hz footage on a native 50Hz monitor doesn't show perceptible flicker. Traditional films are 24 frames per second but the projector uses a shutter that essentially displays the same frame 3 or 4 times on the 1/24 of a second to eliminate flicker.

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So for reference, I played Super Smash Bros. Melee competitively for a while, so I'm aware of CRTs that support both interlaced and progressive scan. I absolutely notice the difference between 30fps and 60fps, I can even discern 50fps from 60fps. Since the primary monitor on my main PC is 144Hz and my phone's screen is 90Hz, trying to use a PC at 30Hz is just painful haha.

So if I had to pick between 1080p at 60Hz and 4K at 30, I'd pick 1080p every time. However, 4K at 50Hz is workable for PC use, just not gaming, and as you mentioned most movies are 24fps (or 23.97 or whatever) so it won't matter for that, but many Twitch live streams and YouTube videos are 60fps. And I use it mostly for Twitch and YouTube, and only occasionally for actual movies.

Also agree with you about the flicker being a non-issue, but just wanted to clarify that I do notice a massive difference between 30 and 60, because I'm so used to seeing high refresh rates.

spapakons said:

I have an LG UHD TV. My main PC has an nVidia GeForce 620 GT card. No matter what I did, I could not enable 3840x2160 at 60Hz, only 30Hz since probably my card's HDMI is v1.4 and cannot provide enough bandwidth. Is the OP sure his card's HDMI is v2.0 ? If he positively is sure, the only reasonable explanation is that the graphics card capabilities or the TV capabilities are not communicated properly to Windows which hide any "unsupported" modes. CRU should inform Windows that the TV supports 3840x2160 at 60Hz. The next step is to add this mode as a custom resolution to convince Windows it is supported and let him apply it.

Click to expand...

This is a great plan. I believe it's a processor limitation, as I believe the i7 version of the Surface Pro 3 does allow 4K at 60Hz, whereas the i5 version (the one I have) only allows 50Hz. But again just a theory. I used CRU to allow an option for 4K at 60, but it never, ever comes up as an option in Windows. I'll see if I can use the Invidia Control Panel, but I've been having problems with it even showing up. Will update soon!

Thanks everyone for your help with this mystery. Hoping to solve the case.

spapakons said:

Even my card's 3840x2160 at 30Hz is fine. You won't notice any difference since the whole screen remains visible and it refreshes 30 times per second, almost the same rate as NTSC footage. Old CRT monitors would show flicker because the eye sees a moving dot rather than the whole image frame. To eliminate flicker in an old CRT monitor the screen must be refreshed at least 40 times per second. So PAL TVs didn't have flicker at 50Hz. Trying to watch 50Hz PAL footage on an NTSC 60Hz monitor does show flicker because the standards conversion of the time wasn't perfect. That is why Americans have the wrong impression that 50Hz TVs show flicker. Certainly not. Watching 50Hz footage on a native 50Hz monitor doesn't show perceptible flicker. Traditional films are 24 frames per second but the projector uses a shutter that essentially displays the same frame 3 or 4 times on the 1/24 of a second to eliminate flicker.

Click to expand...

Thanks! This was quite informative.

this may help someone with sound and frame rates on windows 11,

I bought a surface pro 3 i5 128gb off ebay in the uk for 60 quid lol.
linked it up to 4k jvc 55" hdmi 2.0 4k tv with the surface pro 3 external dp port
(to be ready for an ordered surface dock v1 and surface pen, off CEX uk).
got 3840x2160 at 30hz and no sound to TV (tried philips 75" TV as well no joy).

frame rate:
tried 4 different dp to hdmi adaptors
(that i had left over from linking my main ryzen rig to two 4ks tvs,
with display 1 as dp and display 2 as hdmi)
NO GOOD.

used CRU 1.5.1 program. set up a 3840x2160 profile at 50hz with automatic HDTV, on the JVC tv option.
(do not add 60hz profile to generic. i blanked both surface display and hdtv display.
had to reset to safe mode, blind with key presses on black surface internal screen,
and then uninstall driver and reinstall. major pain in the ar*e.)

exported it to '50hz.exe'. ran it. and then ran restart64bit.exe
picked 50hz in windows 11 display.

SUCCESS :) even after a restart :)

tried 60hz profile with but no joy

sound:
tried over 2 days, uninstalling, different drivers with intel(R) display audio.
finally......

control panel. sound option
pick your 4k tv or 4k output. right click.
pick advanced, change default format to 24k 44100hz or 48000hz,
or lower but not default dvd quality, it worked for me anyway

conclusion:
so thats sound to the TV and 50hz.

much better than a slap in the face with a wet fish lol

davy12344321 said:

this may help someone with sound and frame rates on windows 11,

I bought a surface pro 3 i5 128gb off ebay in the uk for 60 quid lol.
linked it up to 4k jvc 55" hdmi 2.0 4k tv with the surface pro 3 external dp port
(to be ready for an ordered surface dock v1 and surface pen, off CEX uk).
got 3840x2160 at 30hz and no sound to TV (tried philips 75" TV as well no joy).

frame rate:
tried 4 different dp to hdmi adaptors
(that i had left over from linking my main ryzen rig to two 4ks tvs,
with display 1 as dp and display 2 as hdmi)
NO GOOD.

used CRU 1.5.1 program. set up a 3840x2160 profile at 50hz with automatic HDTV, on the JVC tv option.
(do not add 60hz profile to generic. i blanked both surface display and hdtv display.
had to reset to safe mode, blind with key presses on black surface internal screen,
and then uninstall driver and reinstall. major pain in the ar*e.)

exported it to '50hz.exe'. ran it. and then ran restart64bit.exe
picked 50hz in windows 11 display.

SUCCESS :) even after a restart :)

tried 60hz profile with but no joy

sound:
tried over 2 days, uninstalling, different drivers with intel(R) display audio.
finally......

control panel. sound option
pick your 4k tv or 4k output. right click.
pick advanced, change default format to 24k 44100hz or 48000hz,
or lower but not default dvd quality, it worked for me anyway

conclusion:
so thats sound to the TV and 50hz.

much better than a slap in the face with a wet fish lol

Click to expand...

Awesome!! Thanks for sharing your journey. I find myself usually doing 1080p at 60fps, I do choose 4K at 50Hz very rarely.

My Geforce GT 620 (see my 2nd system specs) can do 3840x2160 @ 30Hz without stuttering. My Intel HD 4000 (Fujitsu Stylistic hybrid tablet/laptop) can do 3840x2160 @ 24Hz as a custom resolution but the picture stutters, so is not useful for watching 4K content and I use it at 1920x1080 at 60Hz.

@davidvkimball

Hi David,

I made an account here just to thank you for your CRU instructions, it worked like a charm and it was - like you said - strangely convoluted yet necessary.

Do you still play Melee? Maybe we'll meet on Slippi one day lol

Chimoxhi said:

@davidvkimball

Hi David,

I made an account here just to thank you for your CRU instructions, it worked like a charm and it was - like you said - strangely convoluted yet necessary.

Do you still play Melee? Maybe we'll meet on Slippi one day lol

Click to expand...

So glad!! Yes, I play Melee a lot haha. If you've heard of the site, I actually created blippi.gg to get newer players into the game!

davidvkimball said:

So glad!! Yes, I play Melee a lot haha. If you've heard of the site, I actually created blippi.gg to get newer players into the game!

Click to expand...

Ohh that's a great resource! Thanks for giving back to the community!