Classic Shell Returns For Windows 11 (with and/or without) ExplorerPatcher installed

hdmi · Jan 20, 2023

The-Hive said:
When it first changed from ClassicShell to OpenShell, I found that creating 2 shortcuts caused the icons not to change to custom ones it never happened in ClassicShell so

This never happened to me in Open-Shell, probably because I change the icons to custom ones BEFORE moving the shortcuts to Open-Shell.

The-Hive · Jan 20, 2023

hdmi said:
This never happened to me in Open-Shell, probably because I change the icons to custom ones BEFORE moving the shortcuts to Open-Shell.

I think the version of OpenShell I used was a very early version, but never had the issue in ClassicShell

Wynona · Jan 20, 2023

cereberus said:
Whilst I preferred the W10 menu, in the end the W11 menu is not really that different (more so since live tiles got ditched).

I'm with you, @cereberus. Early on when Windows 10 came out, Settings was included and we were told that the Control Panel would be deprecated in the future. Then came Windows 11 and parts of the Control Panel are still there.

When Windows 10 came out, I decided I would work and familiarize myself with Settings while only using the Control Panel as necessary. For me, it worked like a charm . . . as things changed during updates and upgrades, the learning curve wasn't there.

Although I've tried Explorer Patcher and Classic Shell, and like them, they're not something I just gotta have.

Is the Windows 11 menu perfect? Not by a long shot, but it's OK to use and I can live with it.

My students got a lesson on the Start Menu yesterday. It's customizable . . .

hdmi · Jan 20, 2023

neves said:
so i don't feel the need to use Open Shell anymore.

The Windows 7 style choice of Open-Shell (Start Menu Style tab in the settings window) still adds useful features to the Start Menu like the little triangle arrows to show sub-menus/Actions/Recent. When you right-click on an icon in the Windows 11 Start Menu, the context menu that appears has extremely limited options, whereas in Open-Shell it is almost like opening the whole universe.

EDIT: I forgot to mention, Shift + right-click on an icon in the Start Menu of Open-Shell also works, the context menu works the same as on the Desktop or in File Explorer.

hdmi · Jan 20, 2023

The-Hive said:
I think the version of OpenShell I used was a very early version, but never had the issue in ClassicShell

Open-Shell 4.4.170 has not been given any new features [compared to Classic Shell 4.3.1], but has fixed many bugs and issues, most caused by new feature releases of Windows 10.

neves · Jan 20, 2023

pietcorus2 said:
You can use them both still............

I'm fond of the simplistic approach - so trying to limit the apps i use to tools i actually use (and find necessary). Same reason i gave up on players like VLC, Potplayer, MPC-BE, Smplayer - for the simplicity (yet lite, highly capable & customizable - from the inside) of MPV. Same reason i used Open Shell in Windows 10 - where the start menu was messy and slow - while Open Shell was fast and smooth - despite of offering the same functionality (+ more - if you will).

neves · Jan 20, 2023

hdmi said:
The Windows 7 style choice of Open-Shell (Start Menu Style tab in the settings window) still adds useful features to the Start Menu like the little triangle arrows to show sub-menus/Actions/Recent. When you right-click on an icon in the Windows 11 Start Menu, the context menu that appears has extremely limited options, whereas in Open-Shell it is almost like opening the whole universe.

EDIT: I forgot to mention, Shift + right-click on an icon in the Start Menu of Open-Shell also works, the context menu works the same as on the Desktop or in File Explorer.

Maybe not the arrow, but even Win 11 Start has similar features:

Yet, as can be seen above - i have them all disabled (i don't use everything i install - all the time - so don't see point of those reminders cluttering the Start tab ). I'm well organized by nature - meaning - everything has a place and order and thus... i don't like messy tabs or messy apps (where tons of functions are thrown in - even tho i rarely use/touch most of those). That being said - i actually find Windows 11 Start brilliant - by designed (covers all my needs - both in terms of practicality but also appearance). Even the middle positioning (i find it intuitive so it was easy to adapt) - inspired by Linux or OSX. Have a shortcut for all the apps i use on a daily basis (or at least more often) - while every other app or windows function - which i might use on a blue moon - i simply use to use the Search feature to access it. For example - if i want to tweak some power plan settings (since the default Windows 11 Power plan is limited) - i simply type "plan" and "Edit Power Plan" appears under results. Or if i want to use the Windows 7 Control Panel i just type "Panel" and it's shown. So, not just apps - but also covers every windows feature. (even hidden ones). All it takes is a keyword - which is far more convenient than clicking on/through tabs (the old school way). Or using a Run shortcut (where you can only find a feature - by typing a specific code name, like "eventvwr" for Event Viewer / on Start search - you simply type Even).

hdmi · Jan 20, 2023

neves said:
I'm fond of the simplistic approach - so trying to limit the apps i use to tools i actually use (and find necessary). Same reason i gave up on players like VLC, Potplayer, MPC-BE, Smplayer - for the simplicity (yet lite, highly capable & customizable - from the inside) of MPV. Same reason i used Open Shell in Windows 10 - where the start menu was messy and slow - while Open Shell was fast and smooth - despite of offering the same functionality (+ more - if you will).

I skimmed through the MPV documentation and couldn't seem to find an easy way to get basic home theater related stuff working like audio bitstreaming over HDMI, multichannel audio matrix mixing and channel mapping, WASAPI exclusive mode, choosing to use madVR as the video renderer, subtitle positioning/scaling/font. It takes only a couple of minutes with K-Lite Codec Pack Full, using MPC-HC with madVR. Also, MPC-BE is inferior to MPC-HC in like almost every possible way.

hdmi · Jan 20, 2023

neves said:
Maybe not the arrow, but even Win 11 Start has similar features:

View attachment 50496

Yet, as can be seen above - i have them all disabled (i don't use everything i install - all the time - so don't see point of those reminders cluttering the Start tab ). I'm well organized by nature - meaning - everything has a place and order and thus... i don't like messy tabs or messy apps (where tons of functions are thrown in - even tho i rarely use/touch most of those). That being said - i actually find Windows 11 Start brilliant - by designed (covers all my needs - both in terms of practicality but also appearance). Even the middle positioning (i find it intuitive so it was easy to adapt) - inspired by Linux or OSX. Have a shortcut for all the apps i use on a daily basis (or at least more often) - while every other app or windows function - which i might use on a blue moon - i simply use to use the Search feature to access it. For example - if i want to tweak some power plan settings (since the default Windows 11 Power plan is limited) - i simply type "plan" and "Edit Power Plan" appears under results. Or if i want to use the Windows 7 Control Panel i just type "Panel" and it's shown. So, not just apps - but also covers every windows feature. (even hidden ones). All it takes is a keyword - which is far more convenient than clicking on/through tabs (the old school way). Or using a Run shortcut (where you can only find a feature - by typing a specific code name, like "eventvwr" for Event Viewer / on Start search - you simply type Even).

The only thing that I have pinned to my taskbar is File Explorer, exactly BECAUSE lumping multiple pinned apps together with opened apps is so messy that it hurts. I still want jumplists in Start, though, but what I DON'T want is the clutter that is the Recommended section in Start. I know I can turn that off. But as a result, the little triangle arrows of Open-Shell are still needed like I said. At least for me, they are. How else do you suggest I get jumplists to be shown in Start? As for choosing which folders appear on Start next to the Power button. The list of folders to choose from is extremely limited. With Open-Shell, I can pick ANY folder AND choose which ones appear as sub-menus versus not. And BTW, the search bar in the Start Menu of Open-Shell also covers everything with just a keyword or partial keyword. Only difference, it shows the search results in a more organized manner, and also it finds valid search results that the search bar of the Windows 11 Start Menu does not find. That's it then. It's another no brainer.

neves · Jan 22, 2023

hdmi said:
I skimmed through the MPV documentation and couldn't seem to find an easy way to get basic home theater related stuff working like audio bitstreaming over HDMI, multichannel audio matrix mixing and channel mapping, WASAPI exclusive mode, choosing to use madVR as the video renderer, subtitle positioning/scaling/font. It takes only a couple of minutes with K-Lite Codec Pack Full, using MPC-HC with madVR. Also, MPC-BE is inferior to MPC-HC in like almost every possible way.

Except for madVR render (where beyond the integrated setting - there's also the options for extra scripts that can improve image quality/rendering - so it's not necessary), the others should be feasible - i think...

I mean, i know for sure how to sett some of those. For example: WASAPI exclusive mode - requires the flowing commands added to mpv.conf

--ao=wasapi
--audio-exclusive=yes

Same goes for Subtitles scaling and positioning or even more than that, here's what i have in my conf:

--embeddedfonts=no
--blend-subtitles=no
--demuxer-mkv-subtitle-preroll=yes

--sub-ass=no
--sub-ass-override=scale
--sub-ass-shaper=complex
--sub-ass-force-style=FontName=Arial
--sub-fix-timing=yes
--sub-bold=yes
--sub-font="Arial"
--sub-font-size=70
--sub-color="#ffec00"
--sub-border-color="#000000"
--sub-border-size=5
--sub-blur=0.25
--sub-scale-by-window=yes
--sub-spacing=0.8
--sub-align-x=center
--sub-align-y=bottom
--sub-margin-y=3
--sub-pos=96

Tho, I don't have the other hardware you're using - so i can't test or find the right settings.

As for MPC-HC - back when i was using it as the main player (some things prbbaly changed since then - i guess) - the project was officially dead, so... MPC-BE tried to pick-up the torch and still offer some updates. Latter moved to Potplayer - since it proved to be more capable, but... they kept adding features - which made it slightly slower. Then one update - rested all my settings (to default) - so it took awhile to sett everything back - only realize that madVR wasn't functioning anymore. They did fix it eventually - but looking for a fix is how i found MPV - and got fond of its simplistic approach, fast and highly capable (especially since most of its settings are dependent of mpv.conf - so i have that backed-up just in case). At least for my needs. Even tho, i used before in the past - through SMPlayer (so, it's not quite the same).

But hey, as the saying goes: "Whatever works for you man." I simply shared some wisdom - not really into convincing people to use some tool i prefer. Especially since MPV (for example) - has a learning curve - which i can admit is a bit more tedious than MPC-HC or other players (where, all it takes i some clicks here and there + some external filters and you're good to go). Same goes for OpenShell - especially if you're into conservatism (after all - that's a core trait of this app). Changes can make people uncomfortable sometimes - i get that.

So hey, cheers mate.

spapakons · Jan 22, 2023

neves said:
Except for madVR render (where beyond the integrated setting - there's also the options for extra scripts that can improve image quality/rendering - so it's not necessary), the others should be feasible - i think... I mean, i know for sure how to sett some of those. For example: WASAPI exclusive mode - requires the flowing commands added to mpv.conf

--ao=wasapi
--audio-exclusive=yes

Same goes for Subtitles scaling and positioning or even more than that, here's what i have in my conf:

--embeddedfonts=no
--blend-subtitles=no
--demuxer-mkv-subtitle-preroll=yes

--sub-ass=no
--sub-ass-override=scale
--sub-ass-shaper=complex
--sub-ass-force-style=FontName=Arial
--sub-fix-timing=yes
--sub-bold=yes
--sub-font="Arial"
--sub-font-size=70
--sub-color="#ffec00"
--sub-border-color="#000000"
--sub-border-size=5
--sub-blur=0.25
--sub-scale-by-window=yes
--sub-spacing=0.8
--sub-align-x=center
--sub-align-y=bottom
--sub-margin-y=3
--sub-pos=96

Tho, I don't have the other hardware you're using - so i can't test or find the right settings.

As for MPC-HC - back when i was using it as the main player (some things prbbaly changed since then - i guess) - the project was officially dead, so... MPC-BE tried to pick-up the torch and still offer some updates. Latter moved to Potplayer - since it proved to be more capable, but... they kept adding features - which made it slightly slower. Then one update - rested all my settings (to default) - so it took awhile to sett everything back - only realize that madVR wasn't functioning anymore. They did fix it eventually - but looking for a fix is how i found MPV - and got fond of its simplistic approach, fast and highly capable (especially since most of its settings are dependent of mpv.conf - so i have that backed-up just in case). At least for my needs. Even tho, i used before in the past - through SMPlayer (so, it's not quite the same).

But hey, as the saying goes: "Whatever works for you man." I simply shared some wisdom - not really into convincing people to use some tool i prefer. Especially since MPV (for example) - has a learning curve - which i can admit is a bit more tedious than MPC-HC or other players (where, all it takes i some clicks here and there + some external filters and you're good to go). Same goes for OpenShell - especially if you're into conservatism (after all - that's a core trait of this app). Changes can make people uncomfortable sometimes - i get that.

So hey, cheers mate.

Probably this meant to be in another thread...

neves · Jan 22, 2023

spapakons said:
Probably this meant to be in another thread...

I used above software as example - to make a point about my experience with OpenShell. Which in turn (that given software) - triggered some bad experiences for above user. To which, i was aware of some solutions and added them here. Tho, you're right - that's a different subject for a different topic. My bad (it's how my mind works sometimes - explaining something by using other stuff as reference / also, sharing some wisdom - if i happen to know the answers - tho, not actually or directly related to the OP ).

hdmi · Jan 22, 2023

neves said:
Except for madVR render (where beyond the integrated setting - there's also the options for extra scripts that can improve image quality/rendering - so it's not necessary), the others should be feasible - i think... I mean, i know for sure how to sett some of those. For example: WASAPI exclusive mode - requires the flowing commands added to mpv.conf

--ao=wasapi
--audio-exclusive=yes

Same goes for Subtitles scaling and positioning or even more than that, here's what i have in my conf:

--embeddedfonts=no
--blend-subtitles=no
--demuxer-mkv-subtitle-preroll=yes

--sub-ass=no
--sub-ass-override=scale
--sub-ass-shaper=complex
--sub-ass-force-style=FontName=Arial
--sub-fix-timing=yes
--sub-bold=yes
--sub-font="Arial"
--sub-font-size=70
--sub-color="#ffec00"
--sub-border-color="#000000"
--sub-border-size=5
--sub-blur=0.25
--sub-scale-by-window=yes
--sub-spacing=0.8
--sub-align-x=center
--sub-align-y=bottom
--sub-margin-y=3
--sub-pos=96

Tho, I don't have the other hardware you're using - so i can't test or find the right settings.

As for MPC-HC - back when i was using it as the main player (some things prbbaly changed since then - i guess) - the project was officially dead, so... MPC-BE tried to pick-up the torch and still offer some updates. Latter moved to Potplayer - since it proved to be more capable, but... they kept adding features - which made it slightly slower. Then one update - rested all my settings (to default) - so it took awhile to sett everything back - only realize that madVR wasn't functioning anymore. They did fix it eventually - but looking for a fix is how i found MPV - and got fond of its simplistic approach, fast and highly capable (especially since most of its settings are dependent of mpv.conf - so i have that backed-up just in case). At least for my needs. Even tho, i used before in the past - through SMPlayer (so, it's not quite the same).

But hey, as the saying goes: "Whatever works for you man." I simply shared some wisdom - not really into convincing people to use some tool i prefer. Especially since MPV (for example) - has a learning curve - which i can admit is a bit more tedious than MPC-HC or other players (where, all it takes i some clicks here and there + some external filters and you're good to go). Same goes for OpenShell - especially if you're into conservatism (after all - that's a core trait of this app). Changes can make people uncomfortable sometimes - i get that.

So hey, cheers mate.

Let me set this straight. No offense, but.. MPV still lacks important basic features no matter how hard you try to defend it. The MPC-HC project was never officially dead, and madVR is needed by me and various other people simply because all else causes video stutters. Similar to how having to do hundreds of unnecessary extra mouseclicks causes my brain to stutter in such a terrible way that it breaks my wisdom, and breaks it REGARDLESS of whether you want to talk pertinent nonsense about Open-Shell and conservatism. So hey, still no offense.

neves · Jan 22, 2023

hdmi said:
Let me set this straight. No offense, but.. MPV still lacks important basic features no matter how hard you try to defend it. The MPC-HC project was never officially dead, and madVR is needed by me and various other people simply because all else causes video stutters. Similar to how having to do hundreds of unnecessary extra mouseclicks causes my brain to stutter in such a terrible way that it breaks my wisdom, and breaks it REGARDLESS of whether you want to talk pertinent nonsense about Open-Shell and conservatism. So hey, still no offense.

Even the name is self-explanatory in this regard - as in "Classic" Shell. Then there's the GUI - which "brings back" previous versions of Start Menu - such as Windows 7 but also Windows XP style. By conservatism - i didn't mean that in a political sense - but the literal aspect (the commitment to preserve old features one got used to - even deeming the latest changes meant to replace that old style as broken - something one would need to fix by bringing back the old style). Especially if you installed Classic Shell - shortly after installing Windows 11 - not even giving those changes a chance/try. Easy to notice by the fact - that you don't even know/understand what Windows 11 Start Menu actually does (or how it works). Obvious even in your last message - where you exaggerate the need for hundreds of unnecessary mouse-clicks - when in reality... you have access to almost every windows feature & app installed by pressing 1 (One) Key (Windows Key) - and typing a partial word of that given feature or App in the Search Bar. That's One (1) click... not even 2, 3, 4, or 5 - let alone 10... or a hundred. Truth be told... i don't mind anyone's refusal to try new features (sticking to what one got used to or proved to be working for so long / braking habits comes with some level of disconfort - i get that). Tho, i do mind... blunt lies inspired by ignorance - used to dismiss a new app or a feature one didn't even bother to try. Simply put: misinformation. Especially on a forum - that revolve around the latest Windows (Eleven).

As mentioned in my first post - when it comes to Windows 10 - Classic Shell did fix something that was broken in Windows 10 (its buggy and slow start menu). And since i switched to Windows 10 shortly after its release - Classic Shell proved to be even a means to an end in that regard (was using a HDD too - and sometimes it would take up to 10 seconds to open Start menu vs almost instant access under Classic Shell). Yet, in Windows 11 all those issues were solved - they even managed to improved it. Thus, maybe there's someone who used to be in shoes - browning this topic - someone who might find this info useful. It's not like this topic is purely for praising Classic Shell & denying everything that works against it.

Off-topic: Don't wanna derail this topic any longer - with discussions tied to unrelated apps. So i'll just add some screenshots - where the images speak for themselves - from the official MPC-HC site:

PS. If you wanna discuss those apps try a dedicated topic. Nuff said.

hdmi · Jan 22, 2023

neves said:
Even the name is self-explanatory in this regard - as in "Classic" Shell. Then there's the GUI - which "brings back" previous versions of Start Menu - such as Windows 7 but also Windows XP style. By conservatism - i didn't mean that in a political sense - but the literal aspect (the commitment to preserve old features one got used to - even deeming the latest changes meant to replace that old style as broken - something one would need to fix by bringing back the old style). Especially if you installed Classic Shell - shortly after installing Windows 11 - not even giving those changes a chance/try. Easy to notice by the fact - that you don't even know/understand what Windows 11 Start Menu actually does (or how it works). Obvious even in your last message - where you exaggerate the need for hundreds of unnecessary mouse-clicks - when in reality... you have access to almost every windows feature & app installed by pressing 1 (One) Key (Windows Key) - and typing a partial word of that given feature or App in the Search Bar. That's One (1) click... not even 2, 3, 4, or 5 - let alone 10... or a hundred. Truth be told... i don't mind anyone's refusal to try new features (sticking to what one got used to or proved to be working for so long / braking habits comes with some level of disconfort - i get that). Tho, i do mind... blunt lies inspired by ignorance - used to dismiss a new app or a feature one didn't even bother to try. Simply put: misinformation. Especially on a forum - that revolve around the latest Windows (Eleven).

As mentioned in my first post - when it comes to Windows 10 - Classic Shell did fix something that was broken in Windows 10 (its buggy and slow start menu). And since i switched to Windows 10 shortly after its release - Classic Shell proved to be even a means to an end in that regard (was using a HDD too - and sometimes it would take up to 10 seconds to open Start menu vs almost instant access under Classic Shell). Yet, in Windows 11 all those issues were solved - they even managed to improved it. Thus, maybe there's someone who used to be in shoes - browning this topic - someone who might find this info useful. It's not like this topic is purely for praising Classic Shell & denying everything that works against it.

Off-topic: Don't wanna derail this topic any longer - with discussions tied to unrelated apps. So i'll just add some screenshots - where the images speak for themselves - from the official MPC-HC site:

View attachment 50657 View attachment 50658

PS. If you wanna discuss those apps try a dedicated topic. Nuff said.

The "Classic" in "Classic Shell" was referring to Ivo Beltchev's observation that some parts of the GUI of Windows 7 were a classic reminder of a Sierra adventure game. If you never played any of these games, then that would explain why you completely failed to understand what this was factually about. As for your remark that pressing one key and typing a partial word is all that's ever needed, that in fact is wishful thinking at its finest. Not all keywords are that easy to remember, and you still have to type it in, even if you only have to type it partially so no, it isn't just one key, but then you also have to look for the item in the search results that appear next, before you can launch it. And that is still assuming that the search feature can find it, because, like I said, with Open-Shell the Windows 7 style Start Menu's search bar gives more search results than the search bar of the Windows 11 Start Menu does. The reason why I know that it does is simply because you continue to talk nonsense by insinuating that I did not even try. So much for calling "blunt lies inspired by ignorance" and "misinformation" I guess. You say you don't want to derail the thread any longer, yet you keep derailing it, as anyone who can do a quick search on google should be able to figure out that MPC-HC is here.

spapakons · Jan 23, 2023

The "classic" in MPC refers to the default light theme interface which reminds of the Windows Media Player 7. It is similar in how it looks, window, buttons, time bar, but with the appropriate codecs installed it supports almost any video and audio format, unlike the original WMP 7 or higher. Download K-Lite codecs to get the latest MPC HC and most codecs. Once installed you can use these codecs in any compatible application to play or edit video. Not only in MPC. That's why I prefer it over VLC which only plays video without sharing its codecs.

Tip: MPC HC cannot open YouTube URLs by default. This is rather annoying, but can be fixed simply by downloading youtube-dl and copying into MPC folder.

hdmi · Jan 23, 2023

spapakons said:
The "classic" in MPC refers to the default light theme interface which reminds of the Windows Media Player 7. It is similar in how it looks, window, buttons, time bar, but with the appropriate codecs installed it supports almost any video and audio format, unlike the original WMP 7 or higher. Download K-Lite codecs to get the latest MPC HC and most codecs. Once installed you can use these codecs in any compatible application to play or edit video. Not only in MPC. That's why I prefer it over VLC which only plays video without sharing its codecs.

Tip: MPC HC cannot open YouTube URLs by default. This is rather annoying, but can be fixed simply by downloading youtube-dl and copying into MPC folder.

MPC was based on WMP 6.4, that's why it reminds you of WMP 7. MPC-HC is based on MPC, and is still extremely lightweight. It is included in K-Lite Codec Pack (Standard/Full/Mega). Although the description of K-Lite Codec Pack Standard still refers to it as MPC (under Variants, near the bottom of this page), what's included in this pack is actually MPC-HC (which you see after you click on standard in that same description). But madVR is no longer included in Standard, so these days I recommend getting the Full. There exist a bunch of settings in the installer of the pack, and this installer can be run multiple times to change these settings. A lot of these can also be changed within MPC-HC and madVR. Choosing to use MPC-HC with madVR is what I recommend. (Even, if it doesn't necessarily always help to improve on video playback quality.) It also helps to keep the noise of the laptop's cooling fan down so you don't hear it when you're watching a movie with the sound coming through your loudspeakers instead of noise cancelling headphones, and, it also helps to avoid video stutter when you're watching 4K Blu-ray movie content especially when you got other processes like downloads still running in the background. To keep K-Lite Codec Pack always up to date, you should not only check for newer versions of the installer, as there also exists a separate download with an upgrade that you can run afterwards. So, to be able to update to the latest version, sometimes you only need the latest installer of the pack, other times you'll find that you need that separate download also in addition to it. I'm only saying this because the word 'classic' in 'Media Player Classic HomeCinema' has got nothing to do with conservatism either. It's all about the classical experience of finding the type of free software that works a billion times better than all the paid software that most people use. lol

cereberus · Jan 23, 2023

I always wonder if people who install all these various start menus ever actually use their device for anything but playing with start menus?

Now we can group icons again on W11 (a feature that was sorely missed from W10), I cannot see any significant benefit in using 3rd party menus.

hdmi · Jan 23, 2023

Microsoft got rid of those specific Start Menu features that most users never need, the number one reason why they never need them being exactly BECAUSE these users very rarely need to launch more than a dozen or so different apps, tasks or actions.

Grouped icons or not grouped, scrolling through the Windows 11 Start Menu compares to sliding through multiple start pages on a smartphone to be able to get to an icon you need. The Windows 11 Start Menu doesn't make any logical sense when you're on a 55 inch 4K TV and your workflow constantly involves more than a hundred different actions outside of what's already been made accessible, EFFORTLESSY, through your Windows 11 Start Menu and your Windows 11 Taskbar. Trying to convince someone to get used to having to go through all that extra effort when it's not even necessary to go through is like saying you need to get used to driving from Antwerp to Brussels through Rome and Sicily. That's not how the world works. lol

james73 · Jan 23, 2023

cereberus said:
I always wonder if people who install all these various start menus ever actually use their device for anything but playing with start menus?

Now we can group icons again on W11 (a feature that was sorely missed from W10), I cannot see any significant benefit in using 3rd party menus.

Just because Microsoft says "jump" doesn't mean I have to respond with "how high?"

It's my PC so I'm delighted there's likeminded people out there providing programs that work the way I want them to. And it's not just the start menu programs. I use Agent Ransack to search for stuff, cos the Windows search function is slower than a week in jail. I use TeraCopy instead of the default Windows copy cos it's just better.