Does anyone know if these processors support System Power State S3 (Deep Sleep)?

rick99 · Aug 19, 2022

Well I heard back from the Intel rep. She stated that in the above list, only the 12th Gen i5-12600T supports S3. I don't think her answer correct. Wynona has the 10th Gen i7-10700 which supports S3 so I think others do as well. She referred me to this datasheet...

Power Management - 009 - ID:655258 | 12th Generation Intel® Core™ Processors

I found a similar sheet for the 10th Gen. The new PC I ordered has a 10th Gen. We'll see.

Try3 · Aug 19, 2022

Rick,

Thanks for the update.
I'm glad you found some relevant data. And I'm glad to hear that they tried; it gives me hope for the future.

I can see that the 12th Gen link you posted contains a clear-cut statement of S3 capability.
I could not find the equivalent page for the 10th Gen one.
What I did find for the 10th Gen one was a pdf

https://cdrdv2.intel.com/v1/dl/getContent/615211?explicitVersion=true&wapkw=10th%20Generation%20Intel%C2%AE%20Core%E2%84%A2%20i7-10700T%20datasheet

that lacked the explicit statements of the page you linked to but, when reading all their S3 references one after the other***, did make me conclude that S3 was supported.

*** Using the Advanced search capability in many third-party pdf readers such as Foxit & Adobe. my ditty - Foxit Reader advanced search - post #14 - TenForums

I'll be following in your footsteps eventually,
All the best,
Denis

hdmi · Aug 24, 2022

Try3 said:
S0 is a curse.

Whether the acronym stands for Modern Standby or stands for Microsoft. MS is a curse.

hdmi · Aug 24, 2022

OK.. here's another joke. On the NASDAQ, what does "FT" in "MSFT" stand for?

Failed Technology

hsehestedt · Aug 24, 2022

Whether a computer supports S3 sleep state (or other specific states) is dependent upon a lot more than the CPU. The chipset and other supporting circuitry as well as the system firmware are all a part of the equation.

Best bet is to find a specific machine you are interested in, then have someone run "powercfg /a" on the system so that it can list the modes that it supports.

hsehestedt · Aug 24, 2022

hsehestedt said:
Whether a computer supports S3 sleep state (or other specific states) is dependent upon a lot more than the CPU. The chipset and other supporting circuitry as well as the system firmware and potentially even the power supply are all a part of the equation.

Best bet is to find a specific machine you are interested in, then have someone run "powercfg /a" on the system so that it can list the modes that it supports.

hdmi · Aug 24, 2022

This document states that S3 is supported on Intel 12th Gen CPUs.

Advanced Configuration and Power Interface (ACPI) States Supported - 002 - ID:655258 | 12th Generation Intel® Core™ Processors Datasheet, Volume 1 of 2

However, it also is possible for some BIOS (notably DELL) to hide the fact that S3 still exists (on 12th Gen and on older generations from Intel). There exists a way to bypass such BIOSes with a bootloader, but then you lose Secure Boot option as a sacrifice─one of several many reasons why DELL stinks, and stinks exceptionally hard (IMO much harder than Microsoft, which,... OK, I'll stop now).

rick99 · Aug 24, 2022

My Dell rep checked with the build team and they responded with, "Dell systems support S3."

Intel also provided me with a link to the datasheet of the Gen 10 which I purchased which states it supports S3 (page42)...

https://www.intel.com/content/dam/www/public/us/en/documents/datasheets/10th-gen-core-families-datasheet-vol-1-datasheet.pdf

However, hsehestedt is correct. There are other factors which also determine this. I'll know once mine arrives.

PenPusher · Aug 24, 2022

S3 is supported on my i12700k computer

hdmi · Aug 25, 2022

rick99 said:
My Dell rep checked with the build team and they responded with, "Dell systems support S3."

So then they "forgot" to also mention the fact that not all of 'em do. :ROFLMAO:

Dell has "fixed" that problem by disabling S3 sleep on certain laptops. Not even... | Hacker News

news.ycombinator.com

rick99 · Aug 25, 2022

That was almost a year ago. Perhaps that's changed.

hdmi · Aug 25, 2022

Here is a moderator on Dell community forum confirming the issue less than four months and a half ago.

Re: Please fix modern standby issues!

MajZoa, Windows systems come with the modern standby feature, I'm really sorry we do not have the option to disable modern standby but you can enable hibernate instead of sleep mode.

www.dell.com

hdmi · Aug 25, 2022

Here you can see that this same user who was told by the moderator in question that the issue still persists with Dell was still pulling his/her hair out up until at least the beginning of last month.

Re: How to Disable Modern Standby for XPS 15 9500

S0 Modern Standby is a disaster!! complete madness! I swear my life span was shortened by the frustration of this horrible HORRIBLE design..

www.dell.com

A quick search on the internet reveals that losing S3 as a result of not being able to disable Modern Standby is 1/ still a common disaster more or less and 2/ almost always related to Dell.

hdmi · Aug 25, 2022

As for those who choose to believe that "use hibernate" is the correct answer to this blatant fiasco from Dell. One word: SSSSSSSLLLLLLLLLLOOOOOOOOOOOOWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWW

glasskuter · Aug 25, 2022

Let me point out this is NOT only a Dell problem. HP, Asus, and Lenovo use it in their laptops as well and have similar complaints. I lay the blame for modern standby issues squarely at the feet of MS. For mobile devices, it is their idea, their hardware requirements, and their demands that started this mess in the first place.

Try3 · Aug 25, 2022

glasskuter said:
Let me point out this is NOT only a Dell problem.

You don't seriously expect HDMI to stop taking every opportunity to moan about Dell, do you?

All the best,
Denis

hdmi · Aug 25, 2022

glasskuter said:
Let me point out this is NOT only a Dell problem. HP, Asus, and Lenovo use it in their laptops as well and have similar complaints. I lay the blame for modern standby issues squarely at the feet of MS. For mobile devices, it is their idea, their hardware requirements, and their demands that started this mess in the first place.

The complaints are nowhere near similar. With the other brands typically you either still get the option that lets you choose whether to disable S0ix in BIOS or else the PlatformAoAcOverride registry flag usually gets you where you want to be. Whereas Dell specifically deletes S3 from ACPI tables in some/several of their BIOSes to purposely kill every ability (other than the bootloader method that I mentioned previously in the thread) to bring back S3. In fact there exist multiple reports from Dell users who had successfully disabled Modern Standby and who had S3 working fine until Windows Update forced some BIOS update on them overnight which effectively killed their ability to bring back S3.

Try3 said:
You don't seriously expect HDMI to stop taking every opportunity to moan about Dell, do you?

Tell that to all those people who have lost their ability to bring back S3 and who are now forced to wait for their Dell laptop to wake from hibernate each time before a meeting starts. It's the exact opposite of what Modern Standby is supposed to achieve: Instant On, and, it isn't my fault the fact that Dell and @cereberus appear to think that waking from hibernate still qualifies as "instant".

glasskuter · Aug 25, 2022

hdmi said:
other brands typically you either still get the option that lets you choose whether to disable S0ix in BIOS or else the PlatformAoAcOverride registry flag usually gets you where you want to be

This point I can somewhat agree with. In mainstream computers, Dell bios do tend to lean more to "the letter of the law"...Microsoft's law. But from a Joe Blow buyer's perspective who purchase these mainstream systems, it doesn't matter what brand they buy. The average buyer knows absolutely nothing about power plans, bios, or working in the registry. They use their devices as they come out of the box. In the here and now, Joe Blow doesn't read these forums because much (most in a lot of cases) of what we discuss is Greek to them. With the passing of about a generation and a half of users, this will have changed, but not now. By then as with all things technology, modern standby will be nothing but a Wikipedia description as will laptops and PCs. Also by then, the mindset of the younger generation will have made forums like this one a thing of the past because answers will have been ingrained in them since birth.

But in the here and now, I think most of us can agree it's a unholy screwed up mess from a buyer's perspective.

hdmi · Aug 25, 2022

glasskuter said:
This point I can somewhat agree with. In mainstream computers, Dell bios do tend to lean more to "the letter of the law"...Microsoft's law. But from a Joe Blow buyer's perspective who purchase these mainstream systems, it doesn't matter what brand they buy. The average buyer knows absolutely nothing about power plans, bios, or working in the registry. They use their devices as they come out of the box. In the here and now, Joe Blow doesn't read these forums because much (most in a lot of cases) of what we discuss is Greek to them. With the passing of about a generation and a half of users, this will have changed, but not now. By then as with all things technology, modern standby will be nothing but a Wikipedia description as will laptops and PCs. Also by then, the mindset of the younger generation will have made forums like this one a thing of the past because answers will have been ingrained in them since birth.

But in the here and now, I think most of us can agree it's a unholy screwed up mess from a buyer's perspective.

Yeah, the average buyer goes to the type of computer shop that does things like charge you 70 Euros just to "repair" a laptop that refuses to boot into Windows as a result of AHCI having been changed to SCSI in the BIOS settings on accident. (IIRC the shop also took a week to finish this "repair".) I watched this on our public TV channel (here in Flanders, Belgium) several many years ago. A hidden camera had been used to capture this true story in a short documentary that was about that sort of legal theft. Most people don't really spend the time or effort to look for decent advice. It's difficult enough for them to learn how to separate decent advice from marketing lies being portrayed as basic tech education, let alone find a way to steer clear from the oodles of misinformation/disinformation that rides the internet. Not just on social media I mean, but also on tech related forum websites. Because, many of the ppl who have some of the right answers lost their motivation to speak up in those situations where it could actually help someone notice some truths. I guess it's perfectly understandable that the real experienced techies decided to move on, when hardly anyone ever seems to care to still listen these days.

TraderGary · Aug 25, 2022

I purchased my Dell XPS 15 in February and I absolutely love it. I have no issues with Modern Standby and it works flawlessly.

See specs in "My Computer" below.