Does anyone know if these processors support System Power State S3 (Deep Sleep)?

hdmi · Sep 7, 2022

Try3 said:
Being a PS cmd, it takes a few moments to run but it has the same effect as my NirCmd cmd [which is pretty instant].

Yeah, I was just curious to know if it coud also easily be done without using a 3rd party tool so I looked and was able to find my answer.

rick99 · Aug 9, 2023

Try3 said:
Rick,

Fingers crossed for Friday then.

By the way, if you do get any strange hardware misbehaviour after resuming from S3 Sleep then reinstalling the relevant driver might well fix things.
- I found that my WiFi adapter didn't work correctly when resuming from hibernation [my nearest equivalent now] after disabling S0 and several others reported the same thing about resuming from their now-re-enabled S3 Sleep
- In my case & the other reported cases I saw, re-installing the relevant driver fixed things permanently.

Denis

Denis, I remembered this post after recently updating the BIOS on one of my Lenovo's. With the latest BIOS, this Lenovo does NOT resume from S3 sleep. Powercfg stills shows that S3 is available. The Sleep shortcut appears to put it into sleep but I just cannot wake it. I have to hold the Power button down to force it down. When it comes back up, I see the familiar, "The previous system shutdown at bla, bla, bla was unexpected." error.

I'm not sure if updating any driver will help this or if the BIOS just no longer supports S3.

Try3 · Aug 9, 2023

Rick,

I learnt a few months ago that the PowerCfg -a results mean nothing.
I disabled S0 modern standby on an HP laptop, PowerCfg -a said S3 Sleep was now enabled but the computer could not run several Windows components such as Event viewer and, I think, .exe files.

I took advantage of being allowed to keep it for a week for experiments before returning it for a full refund. See
Power consumption in sleep - my post #85 - ElevenForum
Running scripts during S0 Modern standby - my post #86 - ElevenForum
As a result, I re-enabled S0 Modern standby on my Windows 10 Chuwi Hi10 Pro [tablet-with-integrated-keyboard so it looks like a very small laptop] and am happily using it including running scripts with Task scheduler.
I've also now bought a new Lenovo laptop as my Windows 11 test computer and have not even attempted to disable S0 Modern standby on it. Whilst I hope my main laptop will keep working for a few years, I have no worries about the Lenovo eventually taking over as the main computer.

All the best,
Denis

hdmi · Aug 10, 2023

rick99 said:
I'm not sure if updating any driver will help this or if the BIOS just no longer supports S3.

You can check if the BIOS still writes S3 entries to the DSDT or not. Disable Modern Standby in Windows 10 and Windows 11 Tutorial
However, on some systems the S3 object definition uses conditionals. Enabling the S3 sleep state (suspend-to-RAM) on the Lenovo Yoga 7 AMD Gen 7 (and possibly, others)
So, if that's your case, then the S3 object could be rejected, i.e. based on the outcome of these conditional expressions. Either way, the simple fact that the powercfg a command reports S3 is available already demonstrates that the S3 object has been recognized by the OS (Windows). It means that S3 is supported by the BIOS, but what it doesn't mean is that S3 will work correctly with all the various hardware components and their drivers. Sometimes it can be something as simple as a WiFi card preventing S3 from functioning how it is supposed to, in such a way that merely replacing the WiFi card with a different, compatible, WiFi card (such as an Intel AX200 card) will make the problem completely go away. It mostly depends on luck. Believe it or not. It's a lottery card system (literally).

rick99 · Aug 10, 2023

Thanks for the replies. Since I cannot determine if it's a hardware device which needs an updated firmware, perhaps I'll go back to S0 on this PC. Denis, do you recall what steps you took to re-enable S0?

Try3 · Aug 10, 2023

rick99 said:
do you recall what steps you took to re-enable S0

Rick,

Yes, I just used the procedure in Option 2 Step 2 of
Disable Modern Standby in Windows 10 and Windows 11 - ElevenForumTutorials

Denis

rick99 · Aug 10, 2023

Try3 said:
Rick,

Yes, I just used the procedure in Option 2 Step 2 of
Disable Modern Standby in Windows 10 and Windows 11 - ElevenForumTutorials

Denis

Thanks. I wonder if Microsoft made a change recently. My other Lenovo where S3 is still working no longer has that key. Also, when I updated the BIOS in the Lenovo where S3 is no longer working, that key was also no longer present. When I saw how it crashed going into S3, I re-added it, but it didn't help. I just removed it again. I'll check the BIOS to see if the setting for S3 or modern standby still exists. It did at the beginning. when I got this working, but I think with that BIOS update, they removed the setting. So, I had it set for S3 and if they removed it, there will be some orphan setting still in the BIOS that I can no longer access.

hdmi · Aug 11, 2023

rick99 said:
Thanks for the replies. Since I cannot determine if it's a hardware device which needs an updated firmware, perhaps I'll go back to S0 on this PC.

Lenovo tech support should be able to provide more answers. Have you updated all your drivers to their latest version from Lenovo official website? You could start by figuring out what WiFi card is installed inside this laptop. If it isn't a card from Intel, then you could always consider trying to remove the card (assuming you know how to do that without breaking anything─and also assuming you have both the time and patience required to open up the laptop). If the S3 works correctly after the card has been removed, that's when you'll know what to do next... If it turns out that it still doesn't, you can still always just put the card back in. Either way, I would contact Lenovo about it first, and, if they're not willing to help you out, and they are persistent about that, then maybe, start rubbing them the wrong way on social media (or go all John Wick Chapter 4 on them if needed, lol). At least give the guys a proper chance to resolve this.

rick99 · Aug 11, 2023

hdmi said:
Lenovo tech support should be able to provide more answers. Have you updated all your drivers to their latest version from Lenovo official website? You could start by figuring out what WiFi card is installed inside this laptop. If it isn't a card from Intel, then you could always consider trying to remove the card (assuming you know how to do that without breaking anything─and also assuming you have both the time and patience required to open up the laptop). If the S3 works correctly after the card has been removed, that's when you'll know what to do next... If it turns out that it still doesn't, you can still always just put the card back in. Either way, I would contact Lenovo about it first, and, if they're not willing to help you out, and they are persistent about that, then maybe, start rubbing them the wrong way on social media (or go all John Wick Chapter 4 on them if needed, lol). At least give the guys a proper chance to resolve this.

I called Lenovo support once before about an easy issue... a problem with their own app. They were pretty clueless. It was their System Update app which I did get working myself. I have everything updated that they offer on their site. My phone support has also expired on the device. My WiFi card is disabled. Since my last post, I reverted back to Modern Standby. I had to go into the BIOS and change it there. The main reason I wanted S3 was because in S0, the system would occasionally do something that would cause the fans to run at full speed. I thought it was running a Defender scan or Windows Update but I was never able to identify what it was doing. Now that I am back in S0, I disabled Network Connectivity hoping that if it is Windows Update, it won't run. S0 would be fine with me if I can disable bacckground tasks.

Try3 · Aug 11, 2023

Rick,

Please don't be affronted but you seem to be falling into the same bad habit as me.
It is S0 Modern standby not just S0.
S0 exists. It is the normal operating state of a Windows computer.
I found that writing just S0 then led me on into making mistakes about actions to take or events to interpret.

I have never experienced the "occasionally do something that would cause the fans to run at full speed" that you mention and that other people have mentioned in other S0 Modern standby threads.

I've just bought a Lenovo so thanks for the warning about their support.

All the best,
Denis

TraderGary · Aug 11, 2023

Both of my computers use S0 Modern Standby and I've never experienced any problems. Maybe the problems some experience with Modern Standby have something to do with not running more up-to-date hardware?

glasskuter · Aug 11, 2023

Not referring to Lenovo support specifically (I do not have a Lenovo) but OEM support in general, I totally agree with @hdmi. Nowadays all the OEMs are set up basically the same way in the way they handle support. Going John Wick on them is sometimes necessary to get away from lower level support and reach someone who knows their rear end from a hole in the ground. For any problem of any significance, lower level OEM support is a joke and tier 2 not much better. You have to get to tier 3 to get anything done.

I had multiple issues with a new Dell PC. It took me months of being run around in circles with canned responses before my John Wick emerged in my dealings with Dell support. I had kept meticulous records of what I had gone through. Finally, all it took for me to get my issues resolved was a scathing certified letter to the office of Michael Dell in which I raked their support over the coals. After that, I was thouroughly impressed with the level of support I got.

Within a week I was assigned an engineer who did know which end was up(an actual American I could understand who lived in my state). It was during the height of Covid,there wasn't a machine in their lab equipped exactly like mine, and everyone was working from home so he used my machine a a guina pig. He sent me every replacement part in the machine and stayed with me until my problem was resolved. Resolution ended up being a different brand of Dell ram and release of a new bios update.

So, yeah. John Wick can get 'er done when all else fails.

TraderGary · Aug 11, 2023

@glasskuter, I've had similar experiences with Dell over the years. If something doesn't get resolved, I've had to ask (politely demand) to go to the next support level. I've stayed with Dell for a couple of decades now because of the quality of their computers, the quality of their engineering, and the quality of their support. I absolutely love my current Dell.

Bree · Aug 11, 2023

glasskuter said:
....all it took for me to get my issues resolved was a scathing certified letter to the office of Michael Dell in which I raked their support over the coals.

rick99 · Aug 16, 2023

Well, since I've switched back to S0 modern standby, every now-and-then my PC restarts when I click on Shut Down in the Start Menu. I haven't been able to track down the cause. Fast Startup is disabled. I did a powercfg -restoredefaultschemes. I disabled Allow Wake Timers in the power scheme. I re-enabled Hibernation (I disabled it when I was using S3). Has anyone seen this before?

Try3 · Aug 16, 2023

Rick,

I assume SFC does not show any problems.
I assume your drivers are up to date & there are no warning triangles in Device manager [and no Device manager, Other devices section as that means no driver found].

The only TF/EF thread I could find was this & it does not help.
Computer restart although a click on shutdown - Ten Forums
There were plenty of other my PC restarts when I click on Shut Down search results but I do appreciate that such widespread searching can make you waste the rest of your life following up leads without getting anywhere.

You could try shutting down with the Shutdown command instead just as a comparator to help narrow down possible problem sources.
shutdown.exe /s /t 0 /f
I use this routinely along with its corresponding Restart command [shutdown.exe /r /t 0 /f].
If the Shutdown command works, I would go to the computer maker's / display card maker's support site & reinstall the display driver. It's just a hunch based on the fact that something in the user interface is not doing what it is supposed to. Many people would say that there is insufficient justification so far for doing this and I could hardly disagree with them.

Best of luck,
Denis

Sorry to keep fiddling with the post. I'm being distracted by the semi-final on my telly. 3-1 ~~with only a few minutes to go~~.

rick99 · Aug 21, 2023

Well, it appears that the Restart when being Shutdown will only happen if the PC goes into S0 Modern Standby at some point. If the PC doesn't go into S0 Modern Standby during its session, the PC will Shutdown properly. I have yet to determine what flag is being set which causes this and I doubt I ever will.

Try3 · Aug 21, 2023

Rick,

rick99 said:
if the PC goes into S0 Modern Standby

I assume you mean if
- Power options turns off the display after inactivity, or
- You click on Start, Power, Sleep, or
- some equivalent action.

This new symptom also makes me suspect the display driver.
I am often far too quick to suggest reinstalling the display driver.
I should first suggest:
- Testing behaviour in a different user account, and
- Testing behaviour in Safe mode.

Denis

rick99 · Aug 21, 2023

I have the Sleep after... set to Never and Turn off display after... set to Never. I only put it to sleep manually (Start-Power-Sleep) when I'm going to be away for a while. I have the latest display driver on Lenovo's site but yea, more testing needs to be done.

Try3 · Aug 21, 2023

rick99 said:
I have the latest display driver

Rick,

I am not concerned about the display driver version. I am suggesting that the display driver might have been corrupted in use.
There is no diagnostic test for this so reinstalling can either fix the fault or eliminate it as a possible cause.
- I ought to suggest trying a different user account because, if it works alright, the fault cannot be the display driver because both accounts use the same driver.
- ~~I ought to suggest trying Safe mode because it does it does not use the normal driver.~~ I had never tried Safe mode on an S0 Modern standby computer and have just tried it for the first time on two S0 Modern standby computers. I knew that S3 Sleep did not operate in Safe mode and I have just discovered that S0 Modern standby does not either.

So the other user test is all that can be done.
- If the problem is evident in another user account then it might be the display driver at fault.
- If the problem is not evident in another user account then it cannot be the display driver at fault.
The use of Safe mode as an additional diagnostic test of the display driver is not available to us on S0 Modern standby computers.

In your position, I'd reinstall the display driver to confirm it or eliminate it as a cause.
If you have not reinstalled it since re-enabling S0 Modern standby & doing it now works then please say so. It might be something that everybody should do when changing the setup.

Denis