System Disable Modern Standby in Windows 10 and Windows 11

Brink · Apr 17, 2023

Try3 said:
More power consumed "with" network connectivity than without?
=
More power consumed "with" more work done than without?

Really?

Denis

Yep. LOL

Try3 · Apr 17, 2023

Sorry, I'm getting tired and asked my question very poorly.
What I meant was that you seem to be saying that there's more power consumed with network connectivity off then on but that seems wrong because there's less work to do if it's off.
I'll do the test since you'd like me to but I'm puzzled.
I'll try to keep it in S0 Modern standby for longer as well so I get less inaccurate results.
I cannot run comparable S3 Sleep tests on a comparable S3 Sleep computer until July but I'll post those for you as well. That comparable computer is busy with a longer-term battery-related test that I can't interrupt.

I'm returning & getting a refund for this heap of junk [= a computer that cannot use S3 Sleep].

I'll get back to you tomorrow or Wednesday,
Denis

Brink · Apr 17, 2023

Try3 said:
Sorry, I'm getting tired and asked my question very poorly.
What I meant was that you seem to be saying that there's more power consumed with network connectivity off then on but that seems wrong because there's less work to do if it's off.
I'll do the test since you'd like me to but I'm puzzled.
I'll try to keep it in S0 Modern standby for longer as well so I get less inaccurate results.
I cannot run comparable S3 Sleep tests on a comparable S3 Sleep computer until July but I'll post those for you as well. That comparable computer is busy with a longer-term battery-related test that I can't interrupt.

I'm returning & getting a refund for this heap of junk [= a computer that cannot use S3 Sleep].

I'll get back to you tomorrow or Wednesday,
Denis

Sorry, no. It'll consume more power with network connectivity enabled.

hdmi · Apr 17, 2023

Brink said:
Yep. LOL

Try3 · Apr 20, 2023

Brink said:
As a test, see how S0 does ... That's what usually uses the most power during S0.

Power consumption in sleep

1 I carried out tests of power consumption during S0 Modern standby.
- I chose to run the tests on battery power because it was easy to calculate the energy consumed without additional measuring equipment.
- In each test, I checked that S0 Modern standby was used by checking relevant entries in Event viewer. The Custom view required happens to be the one I used as my example in my ditty - Import Custom view - #4 - TenForums
- I also burrowed down into my notes and found records of corresponding older power consumption tests during sleep, both S0 Modern standby and proper S3 Sleep.
- In the tests, I used HP's Envy 17-cr0001na 17inch touchscreen computer and a Chuwi Hi10 Pro 10inch touchscreen tablet-with integrated-keyboard [that looks like a very small laptop].

2 Test procedure
- I ran a [PowerCfg] Battery report to get the latest Last full charge energy level, which it presents in mWHrs.
- I read the SysTray [Notn area] Power icon indicator’s estimation of battery power remaining.
- I set the computer up for S0 Modern standby, removed external power, left it alone for a while [mostly 5-10 hours] then read the SysTray [Notn area] Power icon indicator’s estimation of battery power remaining.
- I then used the change in the indicator’s estimated charge level together with the Last full charge energy level & the duration of each trial to present the power consumed in sleep.
- I have presented my results in the awkward-looking units WHrs/Hr i.e. the energy lost over time. This awkwardness is, I think, useful because it can be readily related to the energy level reported in the battery report.
- I attempted to account for errors to some extent by calculating the effect of a possible 3% margin of error in the SysTray [Notn area] Power icon indicator’s estimation of battery power remaining. This 3% level was discussed but by no means proven in Window keeps waking up laptop from Modern Standby - TenForums

3 Results

3.1 The power consumed in S0 Modern standby is no more than that consumed in S3 Sleep.
- The power consumed in S0 Modern standby was less than 2WHrs/Hr.
- My earlier tests in earlier computers showed that the power consumed in S3 Sleep was less than 2WHrs/Hr.

3.2 There is no particular difference in the [idle] power consumption seen in the Connected & Disconnected states once the extent of possible margins of error is considered.
- Differences would be seen in a more sophisticated test that included network activity, such as email or WU activity, during S0 Modern standby.
[This para was edited to improve clarity on 31/7/23.]

3.3 There is a large difference between the power consumed when the computer is deliberately put into S0 Modern standby compared to when Power options initiates S0 Modern standby by turning off the display.
- No distinction is apparent in Event viewer, they are both simply described as transitions into S0 Modern standby.
- MS articles do describe S0 Modern standby as having phases. I have skimmed some of them again since conducting these tests but I haven’t found anything that would have allowed me to predict the difference in test results. I'd have to delve into PowerCfg /SleepStudy & PowerCfg /BatteryReport reports to learn more about this.
- The difference prompted me to conduct some tests of corresponding behavioural differences and I’ve reported these in a separate post [below].

4 Conclusions

Contrary to my expectations, S0 Modern standby consumes as little energy as S3 Sleep so worries about it running down the battery are unfounded.

It’s long been my habit to have three ‘power schemes’ -

- “Balanced” for normal working - Display off after 2 mins, Sleep after Never, Hibernate after Never. I manually S3 Sleep it if I am going to stop using it for a while.

- “Power saver” for playing radio comedy recordings as I drift off to sleep - Display off after 1 min, Sleep after 1 min, Hibernate after never.

WMP v12 lets*** the display go off after 1 min but waits until the Playlist completes before counting down to the sleep after 1 min; this lets me use it and not worry it trying to stay on all night.

[*** WMP, Options, Player, clear checkbox for Allow screensaver …]

- “BalancedOn” for playing video recordings on my TV - Display off Never, Sleep after Never, Hibernate after Never.

S0 Modern standby lets me do all these things just as well as S3 Sleep does and would allow me to automate sleeping it if I am going to stop using it for a while.

Denis

Try3 · Apr 20, 2023

Brink said:
As a test, see how S0 does ... That's what usually uses the most power during S0.

Running scripts during S0 Modern standby

1 Having seen the difference in power consumption in S0 Modern standby brought about by the method used to initiate it, I wondered if there would be differences in the ability to run scripts & to use Task scheduler to run scripts.

2 I put together a batch [& vbs] script that had multiple outputs of different types:

2.1 Appending %Date% %Time% to a log file twice a minute for four minutes, then

2.2 Waking up the display using a method that I habitually use on my S3 Sleep-only computer, then

2.3 Turning on CapsLock in order to get an externally-apparent indicator that the script had run, then

2.4 Getting the computer to speak as an additional externally-apparent indicator that the script had run.

I have attached the batch script file purely for information. There’s nothing special about it.
3 I ran the script under different conditions, different S0 Modern standby ‘phases’. I also made Task scheduler run the script in the same conditions to see if there was any difference.
4 I ran the script on HP’s Envy 17-cr0001na 17inch touchscreen computer and on a Chuwi Hi10 Pro 10inch touchscreen tablet-with integrated-keyboard [that looks like a very small laptop].

Results

Note that the script takes just over four minutes to complete.

The script ran and it completed correctly if it was
- Initiated by Power options - Turn off the display after …, and
- It ran to completion within the time period before Power options - Sleep after
~~except for the 9 hours test on the Chuwi~~.

- Other incidents with the Chuwi have shown that there are inaccessible Uefi settings that affect its behaviour. The 9 hour test results for the Chuwi might well be another case of that but I cannot know for sure.

[Added later - I have since been able to repeat test 7 on the Chuwi and it works. So I can now use Task scheduler successfully on both my S0 Modern standby devices.]

Conclusion

It is possible to run scripts manually & to use Task scheduler to run scripts on a proper computer, but not necessarily on a tablet, that has S0 Modern standby.

My current main computer [S3 Sleep only] lets me set up a WMP playlist so that Task scheduler wakes me up with Louis Armstrong's On the sunny side of the street. I now expect a future S0 Modern standby replacement to be able to do the same.

Denis

Brink · Apr 20, 2023

@Try3

One good thing about having network connectivity enabled is the ability to automatically keep your device updated via Windows Update and/or run background tasks while in S0.

Of course, some may not want this if they keep their device in a backpack where it may get hot.

Try3 · Jul 3, 2023

FrankW said:
I wonder if this has something to do with S0 or S3

Run this command [in PS or Cmd parts of the Terminal, it does not matter] to see what power-sleep states you have available.
PowerCfg -a

Denis

bobstack · Jul 23, 2023

The problem I had with Modern Standby S0 was that I could not schedule backups to run at say 3am. After browsing many threads I found:
1. Jim Hoyle is correct. Wake on LAN is not supported by Modern Standby. The reason is that the computer is not "technically" asleep under Modern Standby, so attempting to wake it is futile. The good news is you don't need to wake it.
2. I read that scheduled tasks will not run if their creator is logged on. I read suggestions about creating tasks under a different user name to get around this.

Rather than logging on under different user names, I thought it would be simpler to logoff at say 2:58am to let backups work at 3am. I tried to schedule a logoff at 2:58am using Windows Task Scheduler with no success. I found an app Wise Auto Shutdown that allowed me to schedule a log off at 2:58am. Then my backup task for Active Backup for Business (ABB) ran at 3am (ABB has its own scheduler which I set for 3am). I would hope this will work for other apps which include schedulers and for Windows Task Scheduler running other tasks. I have not tried these.

I hope this helps somebody.

Try3 · Jul 23, 2023

bobstack said:
The problem I had with Modern Standby S0 was that I could not schedule backups to run at say 3am.

I am able to do so.
I set Power options to Sleep after - Never.
Now my computer enters S0 as normal when Power options turns the display off but Task scheduler can still operate. This happy result applies to my S0 laptop and ~~but not~~ to my S0 tablet.
See Running scripts during S0 Modern standby - my post #86 - ElevenForum

All the best,
Denis

Caledon Ken · Jul 29, 2023

I'm realizing how different all these machines are with Standby. On a new Dell system, when the machine enters Standby all networking is disabled, by policy. ( Output of powercfg /a command ). ( Yes it can be enable, Shawn's tutorial.)

I set my screen to shut off after three minutes and set sleep to never. My backup was schedule to start at least 30 minutes after screen shutoff. The networked backups ran successful and should not have if S0 was in invoke. There shouldn't have been a network connection by policy. So at least on this Dell the screen being shutoff does not invoke Standby.

Of note, in this Dell in the Power section of the BIOS there is a switch to prevent the OS from using S3. Out of the box this is disabled so I assume following this tutorial will allow S3 to be enabled.

I also noticed in Group Policies there are two policies, one for battery and one for plugged in, that enable S1-S3. gpedit > Computer Configuration > Administrative Templates > System > Power Management > Sleep.

I wonder how these policies differ from the tutorial commands / registry edits. Would the policies provide more functionality or do the commands / registry edits indirectly enable these policies?

From reading I saw a post that the Windows Clock app can stir a machine in S0 state. I wonder why the makers of backup software with their own schedulers can't copy. One individual was setting alarms in the clock to "awaken" machine and then used this opportunity to run scheduled tasks. Inventive solution, one I did not test.

bobstack · Jul 30, 2023

Denis,
Thanks for your reply above. I found that my suggestion of using Wise Auto Shutdown to log off at 2:58 am is not reliable - it did not work the next time I tried it. So I used your "set Power options to Sleep after - Never", set screen saver to wait 10 minutes, and scheduled backups for 10pm, and used Wise Auto Shutdown to shutdown at 10:30pm. Happy Days! Thanks again Denis.

hdmi · Jul 30, 2023

Caledon Ken said:
I'm realizing how different all these machines are with Standby. On a new Dell system, when the machine enters Standby all networking is disabled, by policy. ( Output of powercfg /a command ). ( Yes it can be enable, Shawn's tutorial.)

I set my screen to shut off after three minutes and set sleep to never. My backup was schedule to start at least 30 minutes after screen shutoff. The networked backups ran successful and should not have if S0 was in invoke. There shouldn't have been a network connection by policy. So at least on this Dell the screen being shutoff does not invoke Standby.

Of note, in this Dell in the Power section of the BIOS there is a switch to prevent the OS from using S3. Out of the box this is disabled so I assume following this tutorial will allow S3 to be enabled.

I also noticed in Group Policies there are two policies, one for battery and one for plugged in, that enable S1-S3. gpedit > Computer Configuration > Administrative Templates > System > Power Management > Sleep.

I wonder how these policies differ from the tutorial commands / registry edits. Would the policies provide more functionality or do the commands / registry edits indirectly enable these policies?

From reading I saw a post that the Windows Clock app can stir a machine in S0 state. I wonder why the makers of backup software with their own schedulers can't copy. One individual was setting alarms in the clock to "awaken" machine and then used this opportunity to run scheduled tasks. Inventive solution, one I did not test.

I will just repeat myself saying. Dell uses one policy. One policy ONLY. It is the policy of the Devil.

Try3 · Jul 30, 2023

Caledon Ken said:
On a new Dell system, when the machine enters Standby all networking is disabled, by policy. ( Output of powercfg /a command )

Ken,

I've responded in your own thread.

All the best,
Denis

glasskuter · Jul 30, 2023

Caledon Ken said:
I wonder how these policies differ from the tutorial commands / registry edits. Would the policies provide more functionality or do the commands / registry edits indirectly enable these policies?

Maybe @Brink can give you a direct answer to that. IMO I have found his registry edits accomplish the same function as the GPO policies. I have noticed in a few of his tutorials he differentiates the instances where any particular change does not apply to a HOME user and in others he states HOME or PRO can use the regedit. Personally, I manage everything I can using GPO. Of course, HOME users do not have this option and have to resort to the regedit method.

Brink · Jul 30, 2023

Caledon Ken said:
I also noticed in Group Policies there are two policies, one for battery and one for plugged in, that enable S1-S3. gpedit > Computer Configuration > Administrative Templates > System > Power Management > Sleep.

I wonder how these policies differ from the tutorial commands / registry edits. Would the policies provide more functionality or do the commands / registry edits indirectly enable these policies?

Hello Ken,

Those are some old legacy policies from Vista that can be used to disable S1-S3. They wouldn't apply for modern standby.

As @glasskuter posted above, you can use Local Group Policy Editor or Registry Editor to configure policies. It just comes down to if you have the Home or Pro edition installed and which method you prefer. Otherwise, they both do the same.

glasskuter · Jul 30, 2023

Modern standby really is the devil as @hdmi said, but the blame for it does not fall on Dell, but Microsoft. It is their love child and implementation. All the OEMs followed like sheep.

Caledon Ken · Jul 30, 2023

Thanks everyone. The device I'm working on was ordered with Pro.

All totally ridiculous, if Modern Standby has been around in some form since Win 8, as we enter Win 11, the industry should have been able to write a standard that allows tasks like AV and backups to run.

Again I appear to lucky in that Dell does not enforce S0 in the BIOS, from what I read not everyone is so fortunate.

The forum as always provides an excellent resource, thank you.

As I suggest laptops for clients I will be going in with my eyes opened a little wider.

hdmi · Jul 30, 2023

glasskuter said:
, but the blame for it does not fall on Dell, but Microsoft.

That's only partially true IMO. The ability to put a laptop in S3 Standby, successfully and without problems like crashing immediately upon trying to put it in S3 Standby after having disabled Modern Standby via the Windows registry is system-specific. The same also applies to lacking the possibilty to disable Modern Standby altogether (i.e. due to this same Windows registry setting simply getting ignored by the BIOS) in such a way that either modding the BIOS or using rEFInd as a means to override the settings that BIOS loads into the DSDT before it continues to boot the OS is your only way to jailbreak from it. Because, on my laptop this Windows registry setting is working absolutely fine, like, easy peasy lemon squeezy, and that sure makes me one very happy camper.

You don't have to google for very long to arrive at the conclusion that those specific laptop users who could not say the same were primarily users who bought from Dell. They actually even went as far as to delete a few posts from their community forum to try and cover this up. LOL

Caledon Ken · Jul 30, 2023

Sorry hdmi. If I'm reading your post correctly it is Dell users that have an issue with enabling S3?

This laptop has a specific BIOS setting that can be enabled to ignore S3 but as shipped it is disabled. I assume that means it will allow S3 to be enabled. This is a Dell XPS 9720, brand new.