How to Upgrade Win 10 to Win 11 after Motherboard Upgrade

NavyLCDR · Jan 9, 2022

fmw said:
Also you will need to change the secure boot element from other OS to Windows UEFI. If your Windows 10 drive has an MBR partition scheme you will have to change it to UEFI or else be prepared to have a drive with no data.. Nothing related to Win 11 works with MBR partitions.

There are a couple of false statements here. Changing the boot mode in BIOS from legacy (CSM mode) to UEFI mode will in no way destroy data on an MBR drive. It may not boot. But no data will be destroyed. Also, notice I highlighted the word may. GPT is not a requirement for UEFI booting. On most computers, a FAT32 partition containing proper boot files is required to boot in UEFI mode, but some computers will even boot in UEFI mode from NTFS partitions. But no computer requires GPT to boot in UEFI mode. Proof of this fact for doubters - the USB flash drive created by Microsoft's own Media Creation Tool for installing both Windows 10 and Windows 11 is MBR partitioned, with a FAT32 partition marked as active. Microsoft has imposed an artificial limitation of requiring GPT to install Windows 10 or 11 using their standard installation methods. However, both Windows 10 and Windows 11 will boot in UEFI mode from MBR disks. Which brings us to the second erroneous statement.

The only thing that does not work in Windows 11 with MBR partitions is the default initial setup program. There are plenty of other ways to install Windows 11 on an MBR drive and run it.

fmw · Jan 9, 2022

NavyLCDR said:
There are a couple of false statements here. Changing the boot mode in BIOS from legacy (CSM mode) to UEFI mode will in no way destroy data on an MBR drive. It may not boot. But no data will be destroyed. Also, notice I highlighted the word may. GPT is not a requirement for UEFI booting. On most computers, a FAT32 partition containing proper boot files is required to boot in UEFI mode, but some computers will even boot in UEFI mode from NTFS partitions. But no computer requires GPT to boot in UEFI mode. Proof of this fact for doubters - the USB flash drive created by Microsoft's own Media Creation Tool for installing both Windows 10 and Windows 11 is MBR partitioned, with a FAT32 partition marked as active. Microsoft has imposed an artificial limitation of requiring GPT to install Windows 10 or 11 using their standard installation methods. However, both Windows 10 and Windows 11 will boot in UEFI mode from MBR disks. Which brings us to the second erroneous statement.

The only thing that does not work in Windows 11 with MBR partitions is the default initial setup program. There are plenty of other ways to install Windows 11 on an MBR drive and run it.

fmw · Jan 9, 2022

Nothing false, just a description of my own experiences doing similar upgrades to that the OP is doing. When I booted from the flash drive, the only option was a clean installation. It would not take an installation that preserved data. I actually decided to go that way although I could have chosen to preserve my data but for the MBR. The error message said that I couldn't choose that option without changing the target drive to GPT. The second upgrade went faster using what I described and you said was false. I will stop providing my personal experiences here. I don't need the hassle.

Dch48 · Jan 9, 2022

@fmw Without modifying the installation ISO, I believe everything you said is true. Installing 11 on MBR requires tricking the installer into thinking it is installing 10. You can even get it to install on a legacy BIOS system but it's silly to do so in my opinion. At this point in time, sticking with Win 10 on an older system is perfectly fine.

If you had just mounted the Win 11 ISO while in Windows 10 and clicked on the setup file, you could have done an in place upgrade without losing anything. Only if the disk had been converted to GPT though. Nothing you said was wrong.

optimxr · Jan 9, 2022

NavyLCDR: Very good explanation, NavyLCDR, a layer of stress has just dropped away for me. I will move forward to getting updated to GPT. I did check to see if MBR2GPT is validated(see attachment) and it says it is.

FMW: Thanks for the advice on upgrading to Windows 11. Since I am using my email account "Windows is activated with a Digital License linked to Your Account" method rather than a key code license, would that make any difference? The only key code I have is my old Windows 7 license which I did not use when I upgraded to Windows 10. I used the email account for that upgrade as well. I'm not sure that license would be valid to Microsoft anymore.

Dru2 · Jan 9, 2022

I personally don't see where this needs to be rocket science. Simply create a bootable USB drive from the Media Creation Tool. Load the USB, boot into the BIOS, disable CSM, enable TPM, enable secure boot. In the boot order section pick the USB drive with UEFI in the name. Start the installation process. Windows installed in UEFI mode with GPT partitioning and NTFS file system. All good. Simple.

NavyLCDR · Jan 9, 2022

Dru2 said:
I personally don't see where this needs to be rocket science. Simply create a bootable USB drive from the Media Creation Tool. Load the USB, boot into the BIOS, disable CSM, enable TPM, enable secure boot. In the boot order section pick the USB drive with UEFI in the name. Start the installation process. Windows installed in UEFI mode with NTFS file system. All good. Simple.

Yep, and all of @optimxr's personal files, apps and programs are erased in the process! Super simple solution, clean start over, keep nothing!

NavyLCDR · Jan 9, 2022

Dch48 said:
@fmw Without modifying the installation ISO, I believe everything you said is true. Installing 11 on MBR requires tricking the installer into thinking it is installing 10. You can even get it to install on a legacy BIOS system but it's silly to do so in my opinion. At this point in time, sticking with Win 10 on an older system is perfectly fine.

If you had just mounted the Win 11 ISO while in Windows 10 and clicked on the setup file, you could have done an in place upgrade without losing anything. Only if the disk had been converted to GPT though. Nothing you said was wrong.

No modification of the ISO file is needed. I (and anyone else) can install and run Windows 11 on 100% unsupported hardware with only the unmodified Windows 11 install USB flash drive created by the Media Creation Tool. I can also install and run Windows 11 on a 100% unsupported VM with an unmodified Windows 11 ISO file created by the Media Creation Tool. MBR disk, legacy booting, low ram, unsupported processor and no TPM. You simply have to setup the partitions manually, apply the image with dism, and set up the boot files with bcdboot.

What's really interesting is that Microsoft offers a Windows 11 VM download for evaluation, and it is a Generation 1 (legacy BIOS) VM, with an MBR virtual disk.

Windows developer tools

Windows includes built-in tools designed for developers — a package manager, a Linux subsystem, optimized storage, and more.

developer.microsoft.com

optimxr · Jan 10, 2022

Update: Just got my C: drive changed from MBR to GPT using the MBR2GPT utility in Windows PE mode and the command prompt "mbr2gpt /convert /allowFullOS". There was close to 6min of black screen before this conversion completed, a little scary for my first time. When I booted up into BIOS, I immediately disabled CSM and it booted into Windows successfully. I checked msinfo32 and BIOS is running UEFI and secure boot is enabled. I ran PCHealthCheck and I am now Windows 11 eligible. However when I go to Update & Security, I still see the message that my PC does not meet the Windows 11 requirements. It lists a link to storage devices but I don't see anything unusual at that page. Also, while the convert process was completing I got a message that WinRE was unable to be repaired and it would need to be repaired manually. Does anyone know what that means?

Dru2 · Jan 10, 2022

Per page 34 of your owner's manual (PDF File), I would enable "Firmware TPM" NOT discrete TPM (unless you installed a physical TPM chip).

Also, for all the trouble you went through, and are still going through with the WinRE error, you might consider doing a clean install of Windows. Simply delete all the partitions on the drive and do what I said in the post #46 above.

I think at this point in time, you've spent more time posting about the issue then you would have in doing the above. This of course assumes you realize you'll also need to reinstall all your programs.

My two cents.

cereberus · Jan 10, 2022

spapakons said:
Experience shows that Windows 10 will automatically find drivers for new hardware when moved on another computer. The chance of a BSOD is smaller with every new Windows generation. However, since Windows XP there is a process called Generalising that prepares the OS to move on new hardware. I don't remember how it is done, but you can Google it. So you generalise your current Windows 10 installation and then you move it on the new hardware. After successful upgrade, activation and driver update, you can upgrade to Windows 11. See respective thread to bypass compatibility check.

It is years since I have had to use sysprep. The only significant problem I have run into in recent years was missing drivers for my optane nvme drive, and even a clean install did not help.

I had taken a backup image of original oem setup. So I reverted to that and exported drivers.

I then made a custom iso of installation on old pc, injected key drivers into boot.wim and install.wim, creating a new iso which I then used to create a bootable usb installation;; drive, and it worked perfectly.

Sysprep is a PITA on W10, as it gets really arsy over uwp apps not being provisioned.

I would only use sysprep as an absolute last resort as I have the Macrium Reflect Home Redeploy option as well which is much easier than faffing with sysprep.

First thing is to ensure you have all key drivers for new pc.

So in order of trying to move an installation from one to another, I do it like this

1) Just try it - most times it just works. I then go to device management to sort out missing drivers as needed.

2) Use iso method as above - only thing that I have found that upsets this dometimes is onedrive. I use Files on Demand, so I uninstall onedrive before creating iso, and reinstate it on new pc after installation.

This all sounds complicated but I have created a couple of batch file that does all the hard work.

3) Try Macrium Redeploy.option (not for free Reflect users).

4) Try sysprep

I have never failed with option 2 for ages since I found it always seems to work even across completely different hardware (I transferred from Amd ro Intel with completely diffrent audio, audio, network, hard drive and GPU graphics)..

Even Macrium Redeploy used to fail now and then.

It is no real surprise option 2 works well, as it basically uses dism. It takes a bit of a learning curve but well worth the effort. This is much easier if you have an oem instalation on new pc, as you can export drivers without having to go to websites.

I just inject key drivers into boot wim, but inject all drivers into install.wim, and this virtually eliminates need to sort drivers in device management to temove the exclamation marks, other than allowing Windows to update them

All the information that I needed to do this was in the excellent tenforum tutorials written by @Kari.

spapakons · Jan 10, 2022

The drawback with exporting drivers is that you get them in folders without setup. You have then to search for them and install manually from Device Manager. For audio, network and other missing devices this is OK, but if you want to update the chipset drivers you would have to try updating every single device in the system devices section. Not really convenient. It is much faster and easier if you keep a backup of all driver installers in C:\Drivers. Of course you have to copy each new graphics or whichever driver there replacing the old. So if you need to reinstall drivers you can go in C:\Drivers and run all the installers. Most drivers are downloaded with a weird filename that doesn't help to remember which is for which device. I always rename them to something more meaningful like nVidia Geforce GT 610 driver. Also I prefer keeping a backup of official drivers from manufacturer than rely on Windows Update. Most of the times Windows Update can make the device work, but it doesn't expose all the device features or have a control panel to configure the device. A generic graphics driver may not have all the hardware features and usually doesn't install the graphics control panel. Similarly a generic printer driver prints only in B/W or color, draft or best in plain paper, while the official printer driver from the manufacturer lets you configure the print quality as much as you want and supports a lot of different paper types and thickness. I think you get the idea. Official drivers are always better than those from Windows Update. Also if you extract the graphics driver and then install it from Device Manager you probably won't get the graphics control panel as well. Besides I prefer to always download and install the latest official graphics driver to maximize performance and have the latest bug fixes.

Bree · Jan 10, 2022

fmw said:
When I booted from the flash drive, the only option was a clean installation. It would not take an installation that preserved data.

Well, yes. If you boot from the flash drive that IS the only option. It has been like that since Windows 10 was first release in 2015, and before that for Windows 8 and 7.

If you want to do an upgrade that keeps your data and installed apps you don't do it that way. You run the setup on the flash drive from within your existing Windows.

NavyLCDR · Jan 10, 2022

optimxr said:
Update: Just got my C: drive changed from MBR to GPT using the MBR2GPT utility in Windows PE mode and the command prompt "mbr2gpt /convert /allowFullOS". There was close to 6min of black screen before this conversion completed, a little scary for my first time. When I booted up into BIOS, I immediately disabled CSM and it booted into Windows successfully. I checked msinfo32 and BIOS is running UEFI and secure boot is enabled. I ran PCHealthCheck and I am now Windows 11 eligible. However when I go to Update & Security, I still see the message that my PC does not meet the Windows 11 requirements. It lists a link to storage devices but I don't see anything unusual at that page. Also, while the convert process was completing I got a message that WinRE was unable to be repaired and it would need to be repaired manually. Does anyone know what that means?

For now I would just ignore the Windows Recovery Environment (WinRE) error. If you upgrade to Windows 11 it will recreate WinRE. It's a fairly detailed process to fix it. Right now you've got a relative mess on your hard drive (or SSD) because you will have partitions that you no longer need. I would recommend we work on cleaning up your partitions before the mess grows even messier with an upgrade to Windows 11. You will have your old System Reserved partition at the beginning of the disk that is no longer used, and you will have an MSR partition after your C: drive OS partition that could be moved to the beginning of the disk after you delete the unused system reserved partition, and you now have a recovery partition that we could attempt to repair, or just delete.

Dru2 · Jan 10, 2022

NavyLCDR said:
Yep, and all of @optimxr's personal files, apps and programs are erased in the process! Super simple solution, clean start over, keep nothing!

And if you learned to read, instead of trolling me, you'd see I also said that.

As I said before, we don't like each other so for me, no matter what I say, you'll find a way negative it simply for the sake of doing so.

I stand by my statement as explained to @optimxr.

NavyLCDR · Jan 10, 2022

Dru2 said:
And if you learned to read, instead of trolling me, you'd see I also said that.

As I said before, we don't like each other so for me, no matter what I say, you'll find a way negative it simply for the sake of doing so.

I stand by my statement as explained to @optimxr.

#1 I missed where you said we don't like each other. What an interesting thing to say, have we met? You may not like me, even though we have not met, but I have no judgements towards you as we have not met and there haven't been topics discussed that would cause me to form any opinion regarding like or dislike.

#2 Me learn to read? The title of this thread is Upgrade Windows 10 to 11. The OP is on track to do the upgrade. He did not ask how to do a clean install, and there is nothing yet to indicate that a clean install is going to be needed to get to Windows 11. I would not want the OP to follow someone's advice to boot from a Windows 11 USB flash drive thinking he was going to do am upgrade that way and then wonder where all their files disappeared to.

Dru2 · Jan 10, 2022

NavyLCDR said:
#1 I missed where you said we don't like each other. What an interesting thing to say, have we met? You may not like me, even though we have not met, but I have no judgements towards you as we have not met and there haven't been topics discussed that would cause me to form any opinion regarding like or dislike.

We have had many combative posts many times in the Windows 10 forums (sygnus21). And we've also had some here. It's why I make it a point to say away from you.

And again, I stand by my statement to optimxr as explained (whether you agree or not). Anything further can be discussed privately.

Peace

glasskuter · Jan 10, 2022

@optimxr Glad to see you finally got everything copacetic. We really appreciate you taking the time to let us know you got it up and going as well as the time you took to keep us informed along the way. What you have documented will help the next person that comes here searching for the same answers. If you are confidant everything is as it should be, please mark your thread closed. Reach out again if you encounter further problems.

Dru2 · Jan 10, 2022

Agree with glasskuter

optimxr · Jan 10, 2022

Glasskuter, Dru2 and all others, I really appreciate your patience with me and all the great in-depth advice you've given me on my upgrade. I will close this thread with a great deal more confidence as I go forward. I am not in a hurry to get Windows 11 installed as I would like to investigate all the details that are of interest to me and my needs before I make that change. Some of the tools that you have introduced me to(Macrium, GPU-Z, MBR2GPT, etc) will be very useful in my next few re-builds. So thanks again and consider this thread Closed.
Optimxr

How to Upgrade Win 10 to Win 11 after Motherboard Upgrade

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