Install to old pc without uefi and tpm. Is this possible?

NavyLCDR · Nov 14, 2022

Gregory said:
Again i ask how i can make a clean install to a hdd(Formatted or not) and win11 installed at one and only partition not any other.

Here you go. Note you may have change the parameters in some of the commands. Such as if you want to install to install to a drive other than drive 0. If you USB flash drive for Windows 11 is not E: like mine was. You may have install.esd instead of install.wim. You will have to match the parameters in the commands to what your system says. I booted the computer from a standard Windows 11 USB flash drive. On the first blue screen asking for language, date and time format and keyboard, I press Shift+F10 to get a command prompt. Then ran the commands below:

Code:

Microsoft Windows [Version 10.0.22621.525]
(c) Microsoft Corporation. All rights reserved.

X:\sources>diskpart

Microsoft DiskPart version 10.0.22621.1

Copyright (C) Microsoft Corporation.
On computer: MINWINPC

DISKPART> list disk

  Disk ###  Status         Size     Free     Dyn  Gpt
  --------  -------------  -------  -------  ---  ---
  Disk 0    Online          127 GB      0 B

DISKPART> select disk 0

Disk 0 is now the selected disk.

DISKPART> clean

DiskPart succeeded in cleaning the disk.

DISKPART> convert mbr

DiskPart successfully converted the selected disk to MBR format.

DISKPART> create part primary

DiskPart succeeded in creating the specified partition.

DISKPART> format fs=ntfs quick

  100 percent completed

DiskPart successfully formatted the volume.

DISKPART> assign letter=t

DiskPart successfully assigned the drive letter or mount point.

DISKPART> active

DiskPart marked the current partition as active.

DISKPART> list volume

  Volume ###  Ltr  Label        Fs     Type        Size     Status     Info
  ----------  ---  -----------  -----  ----------  -------  ---------  --------
  Volume 0     E   CCCOMA_X64F  UDF    DVD-ROM     5299 MB  Healthy
* Volume 1     T                NTFS   Partition    126 GB  Healthy

DISKPART> exit

Leaving DiskPart...

X:\sources>E:

E:\>cd Sources

E:\sources>dir install.*
 Volume in drive E is CCCOMA_X64FRE_EN-US_DV9
 Volume Serial Number is D533-1F3C

 Directory of E:\sources

09/24/2022  07:45 PM     4,843,585,384 install.wim
               1 File(s)  4,843,585,384 bytes
               0 Dir(s)               0 bytes free

E:\sources>dism /get-wiminfo /wimfile:install.wim

Deployment Image Servicing and Management tool
Version: 10.0.22621.1

Details for image : install.wim

Index : 1
Name : Windows 11 Home
Description : Windows 11 Home
Size : 16,168,829,996 bytes

Index : 2
Name : Windows 11 Home N
Description : Windows 11 Home N
Size : 15,506,889,019 bytes

Index : 3
Name : Windows 11 Home Single Language
Description : Windows 11 Home Single Language
Size : 16,153,401,297 bytes

Index : 4
Name : Windows 11 Education
Description : Windows 11 Education
Size : 16,463,631,301 bytes

Index : 5
Name : Windows 11 Education N
Description : Windows 11 Education N
Size : 15,808,633,936 bytes

Index : 6
Name : Windows 11 Pro
Description : Windows 11 Pro
Size : 16,479,089,353 bytes

Index : 7
Name : Windows 11 Pro N
Description : Windows 11 Pro N
Size : 15,810,170,147 bytes

Index : 8
Name : Windows 11 Pro Education
Description : Windows 11 Pro Education
Size : 16,463,581,511 bytes

Index : 9
Name : Windows 11 Pro Education N
Description : Windows 11 Pro Education N
Size : 15,808,583,246 bytes

Index : 10
Name : Windows 11 Pro for Workstations
Description : Windows 11 Pro for Workstations
Size : 16,463,606,406 bytes

Index : 11
Name : Windows 11 Pro N for Workstations
Description : Windows 11 Pro N for Workstations
Size : 15,808,608,591 bytes

The operation completed successfully.

E:\sources>dism /apply-image /imagefile:install.wim /index:1 /applydir:T:\

Deployment Image Servicing and Management tool
Version: 10.0.22621.1

Applying image
[==========================100.0%==========================]
The operation completed successfully.

E:\sources>bcdboot T:\Windows /s T: /f ALL
Boot files successfully created.

E:\sources>T:\Windows\System32\Shutdown /s /t 00

spapakons · Nov 15, 2022

This has been discussed in another thread, I don't remember where. It is possible to install Windows 11 on Legacy BIOS mode (MBR partition style) on a single NTFS partition without any small partitions. This is very useful for small storage such as 64GB embedded storage of old tablets that cannot be upgraded to a larger disk. The system must be able to boot in Legacy BIOS mode (CSM support enabled). You have to create the single NTFS partition before clean installing Windows 11. One way to do that is to press SHIFT+F10 to open a command prompt at first Setup screen and use Diskpart to create the partition. Then close diskpart and command prompt and proceed with the installation.

zbook · Nov 15, 2022

There are many computer users that were happy after upgrading to Windows 11.

There are also many computer that were unhappy after upgrading to Windows 11.

The unhappy users did not have improvements in performance, reliability, and security.

And some had decreased performance.

It is best to make free backup images so that if there are any issues you can restore an image.

NavyLCDR · Nov 15, 2022

spapakons said:
The system must be able to boot in Legacy BIOS mode (CSM support enabled).

Not entirely true. There are an increasing number of computers capable of booting in UEFI mode from an NTFS partition.

spapakons · Nov 15, 2022

NavyLCDR said:
Not entirely true. There are an increasing number of computers capable of booting in UEFI mode from an NTFS partition.

Yes, but UEFI mode requires the small system partitions we are trying to avoid. It beats the purpose. To install in a single partition (no other hidden system partitions), you must do it in CSM (Legacy BIOS mode), not UEFI. For systems with very small storage, such as 32GB eMMC, you can also compact OS after installation to free some disk space, but you reduce performance slightly. To have the maximum free space available you can also enable disk compression for all files.

jimbo45 · Nov 15, 2022

Gregory said:
So how i can clean install to a pc without tpm and uefi to a SINGLE partition?
Simply i must pre-format the hdd into one and only ntfs partition?

Hi there

Easily done on an MBR machine - but you will need to do it in a VM and optionally use a vhdx file.

On a real machine I haven't tried this yet but it presumably could work.

Create your NTFS partition (you might still need a small non NTFS partition formatted FAT32 as I don't think most MBR machines can boot from NTFS. Or even a lot of UEFI ones too).

Install Windows via the dism /Apply-Image method -- plenty of examples on the Forums.

Then install the bootloader to the MBR partition

bcdboot v:\windows s S: /f MBR (ensure you install the bootloader from the appropriate Windows system you are installing to your "boot" partition" which should be the small fat32 one.

Not sure if the whole thing could be done from a single FAT32 partition though. I'm not sure why there should be a problem in having a small boot fat32 partition. Windows via "Classical install" always creates extra partitions anyway. Even W10 on an MBR machine.

In theory it should work. I just don't have a spare MBR machine to try it on though.

I'll try doing this in a VM set up as MBR which might give me some sort of valid test. No TPM, No UEFI.

BTW advantage also of using the dism method is that the CPU check isn't done -- the chances are that any W11 attempt to install on MBR machines will have older non compliant CPU's in them too.

@NavyLCDR is the expert onall this stuff though.

As far as the CSM module is concerned - I could boot W7 but W10 and W11 failed hideously at install. That machine though has long since passed to the local council's Tip.

Cheers
jimbo

spapakons · Nov 15, 2022

You don't need to mess with virtual machines. All you need is to create the single partition before installing Windows 11 in Legacy BIOS mode (MBR). You can connect the disk on another computer, create an NTFS partition taking all available disk space, no other partitions needed, and then install Windows 11 on this partition. If you let Windows Setup create the partition for you it will also create the small system partition without asking. The trick is to force installation on a pre-formatted disk so no additional partitions are created by Setup. The alternative to connect your disk to another computer is to boot with a Live USB and create the partition before installing. If using a Linux live USB load GParted and create a single NTFS partition. If you use a WinPE USB such as Strelec's boot USB, you can load Computer Management, go to Disk Manager and do it from there. Or you can simply follow my method with the command prompt if you don't have a live USB or WinPE handy. To summarize, create a single NTFS partition independently of Windows Setup, otherwise it will add the small system partition, you cannot avoid it. Then install Windows 11 on this partition without formatting or any other change in the disk. Just click on the partition and proceed.

NavyLCDR · Nov 15, 2022

spapakons said:
Yes, but UEFI mode requires the small system partitions we are trying to avoid. It beats the purpose. To install in a single partition (no other hidden system partitions), you must do it in CSM (Legacy BIOS mode), not UEFI.

No, it does not. A UEFI system that can boot from NTFS only requires a single partition. It just has to have the boot files in the proper folder in that partition to boot from.

Also, look at the standard Windows 10//11 installation USB flash drive that the Media Creation Tool creates. MBR, 1 single partition (albeit FAT32 so it is universal), marked as active, bootable on all UEFI computers capable from booting from a flash drive.

On the single partition install the boot files are in \EFI\Microsoft\Boot\

PatrykP · Nov 15, 2022

U can use my Iso with bypasses Windows 11 22H2 [NO TPM / SECURE BOOT] By Patryk.P

Gregory · Nov 26, 2022

How we can disable the recovery partition BEFORE even make a clean install of win11?
Is there any hidden or not option to make win11 clean install make the installation to one and only partition even at hdd that isn't formatted already?

Gregory · Nov 26, 2022

PatrykP said:
U can use my Iso with bypasses Windows 11 22H2 [NO TPM / SECURE BOOT] By Patryk.P

How i can make an iso from the ms store to my language to install even at pc's without tpm or uefi???

spapakons · Nov 26, 2022

Download the ISO directly, don't use Media Creation Tool. Then you can use Rufus to create a USB flash drive to install Windows 11. To be bootable in a "traditional" BIOS system, change the default GPT UEFI to MBR CSM before proceeding. When you click to proceed you will see a choice to also patch it to bypass compatibility check. Select all options so you can use it in all 64-bit systems. Well almost because the first generation AMD-64 CPUs lack the necessary instructions to run Windows 8 64-bit or higher. Anything newer should work. In an earlier post I mentioned that you have to prepare the disk before installation in order to have a single large NTFS partition and not the small system partition. Basically you must delete all other partitions and create a single NTFS partition and then click on that to install without any modification. If you create the partition from Windows Setup it will add the small system partition without asking, so you have to do it outside Setup.

Gregory · Nov 26, 2022

At win7 i run rufus 3.20 and open the win11 iso file don't appear anything about mbr csm e.t.c.
And the rufus don't have an option so the result would me a new iso file?

Isn't there any gui program that make a win11 custom iso???
If there is which is this program?

spapakons · Nov 26, 2022

Rufus is a GUI program, the option to create a GPT or MBR USB flash drive is right on top of the window. I am replying from my mobile so I cannot send a screenshot yo guide you right now. Google it to see.

Gregory · Nov 30, 2022

Why at win7 rufus doesn't appear the options for tpm e.t.c.?

spapakons · Nov 30, 2022

In new Rufus versions the options for Windows 11 appear only after clicking the button to begin. You see a list of options to disable TPM check, to disable Secure Boot, RAM size etc. Select all options to install at all older computers. Don't forget to create an MBR USB flash drive, not a GPT one.

jimbo45 · Nov 30, 2022

Hi folks
there's been several posts and threads on this topic.

two solutions -- ONE -- run as a Virtual Machine - then the "Virtual disk" in the "Virtual BIOS" can have an emulated TPM and a UEFI boot.

The other one is to create a vhdx disk file on your pc -- then install windows via dism /Apply-Image and install the bootloader to the MBR partition e.g bcdboot v:\windows /s S: /f MBR.

As the machine is an older one it won't be able to boot from NTFS so create a small FAT32 boot partition.

Currently - once Windows is installed (and DISM /APPLY-IMAGE does no hardware checking - it will boot since TPM and other processes requiring that hardware aren't yet invoked. You can't guarantee that this state of affairs will continue indefinitely though.

Cheers
jimbo

spapakons · Nov 30, 2022

Why complicate things with virtual machines and virtual disks? For novices it is far easier to create a hybrid Windows 10/11 USB flash drive or use Rufus to bypass compatibility check. See relevant thread.

NavyLCDR · Nov 30, 2022

jimbo45 said:
As the machine is an older one it won't be able to boot from NTFS so create a small FAT32 boot partition.

Absolutely incorrect. Legacy BIOS computers (and UEFI computers using CSM) have been booting from NTFS since the 1990's. An NTFS System Reserved partition has been the default since Windows 95, I believe.

spapakons said:
Why complicate things with virtual machines and virtual disks? For novices it is far easier to create a hybrid Windows 10/11 USB flash drive or use Rufus to bypass compatibility check. See relevant thread.

Because that is just the way jimbo rolls! I think somewhere he stated he was an engineer (and not the railroad type). Engineers love to make things more complicated than they have to be.