Is anyone using firefox

ian50 · Jul 26, 2023

I've been using Firefox Developer Edition for some time now without any issues as this version allows quite a few customisations not available in the standard edition. It installed and updates seamlessly, although I've turned UAC off.

The other browser I have in use is Brave Portable, which is cloud-fast and doesn't constantly pester with pointless updates.

Helmut · Jul 26, 2023

Wynona said:
firefox.com

And yep, Edge tried to tell me I don't need firefox! "There's no need to download a new web browser"

Thing is, those who don't know better (newbies to Windows 11) believe the malarky.

Wynona said:
A long time ago, Microsoft tried to block all other browsers, but got into trouble with the EU. I think they've discontinued that practice now; at least I have no problem installing any non-Microsoft browsers today.

Now that is nonsense, and several distortions of fact.

The facts are that the Mozilla group and others insisted that they were discriminated against during the installation of Windows, they did not like the fact a Web Browser was installed with Windows. So the EU decided that on installation of Windows users be given a choice of Web Browsers, one of those choices was Firefox.
One of the Windows updates was for this Browser choice in the EU countries which at the time included UK.

Load of nonsense, you could always install any Web Browser you liked. I just blocked that stupid Browser choice bloatware update due mainly to the insistance of Mozilla.

Downloading Firefox or Chrome no problem, Windows 10 or 11.

PennsyNut · Jul 27, 2023

Hmmm! I wonder about all the responses. Fact or fiction. You CAN NOT install any browser you want. MS comes with Edge and that's that. In order to install any other browser, you need Edge to do so. So - that's what I did. Installed Firefox as my default and keep Edge as a back up. And those are the only 2 I need. IMHO.
Chrome is an older Edge. Most of the new browsers are clones of IE or Chrome or whatever? I don't have the facts. Just my common sense. Firefox and Edge are all I need. IMHO.

Bree · Jul 27, 2023

PennsyNut said:
Most of the new browsers are clones of IE or Chrome or whatever?

Not IE, that was always a proprietary MS product, closed source and nobody was allowed to clone it. It was becoming increasingly non-standard, with many idiocracies that web sites had trouble coping with. MS pulled the plug on IE after IE11, replacing in W10 with the first incarnation of Edge. That too got scrapped and replaced with the current Chromium-based Edge.

Almost all browsers these days are either derived from the open source Chromium project (that includes both Edge and Chrome) or the Mozilla open source code (Firefox, et. al.).

PennsyNut · Jul 27, 2023

Bree: I had found the info years ago and don't know how to do so today. But. I had found proof that Chrome was a clone of IE. And that all new browsers are clones of IE. I agree that it sounds like it might be bogus. But. Who cares? Firefox does everything it's supposed to and updates automatically. So I leave it alone. It's the default. So - IF - for some reason a web site don't like Fx, then I have Edge as the back up. But that's the only time I use Edge. And those instances are getting rarer and rarer as Fx continuously gets better and better. The last time I remember that happening was over a month ago. And that was a web site that was a "one time thing". So, again. What difference does it make what base Chrome or Edge or anyone else uses. Firefox stands alone. And being open source, has enough people to keep it honest and accurate and whatever else a browser must be. All IMHO.

LesFerch · Jul 27, 2023

PennsyNut said:
You CAN NOT install any browser you want. MS comes with Edge and that's that. In order to install any other browser, you need Edge to do so. So - that's what I did. Installed Firefox as my default and keep Edge as a back up.

If "you cannot install any browser you want" then you wouldn't have been able to install Firefox. Did you mean to say that Windows does not come with any other browser pre-installed or no other's browser's installation stub is pre-installed? That would only be a matter of convenience anyhow.

The fact is, you can install any browser you want and always could (as has been previously stated). The fact that you used Edge to download the other browser's installer stub, or that Edge discourages you from installing another browser, is far different than not being able to install another browser. And you certainly could have used Firefox on another computer (or your phone) to download the Firefox installer and then copy that to your target computer using a flash drive (or your phone).

Easier yet, you can install Firefox from the Microsoft Store.

PennsyNut · Jul 27, 2023

So LesFerch: Are you are telling me that "if a PC has NO browser installed to begin with, that you can install Firefox without having Edge or any other browser?"
What I'm saying is: That you can install any browser on any PC, but you must have Edge to begin with. Browsers don't just appear my magic. You must have a browser to begin with to get Firefox.
? Unless you use Linux. Where I believe Firefox is installed on it from the beginning. And Edge is not even possible on Linux? Of course, this too may be false. Since I don't have Linux and can't say for sure.

LesFerch · Jul 27, 2023

PennsyNut said:
So LesFerch: Are you are telling me that "if a PC has NO browser installed to begin with, that you can install Firefox without having Edge or any other browser?"
What I'm saying is: That you can install any browser on any PC, but you must have Edge to begin with. Browsers don't just appear my magic. You must have a browser to begin with to get Firefox.
? Unless you use Linux. Where I believe Firefox is installed on it from the beginning. And Edge is not even possible on Linux? Of course, this too may be false. Since I don't have Linux and can't say for sure.

Yes. Please re-read my post. I clearly explained two ways you can install Firefox without using Edge.

And "or any other browser" is an irrelevant add-on from your original post.

PennsyNut · Jul 27, 2023

Using Microsoft Store? Heck. I uninstalled that the first time I got a new PC. And going to 3rd party just to download a browser?
Since MS installs Edge on every darn PC sold. Why not just use it? Besides, uninstalling Edge is nigh near impossible.
So saying you can install a browser without using Edge is ? a bit questionable in itself, since Edge is auto installed on every Windows PC made.

LesFerch · Jul 27, 2023

PennsyNut said:
Using Microsoft Store? Heck. I uninstalled that the first time I got a new PC. And going to 3rd party just to download a browser?
Since MS installs Edge on every darn PC sold. Why not just use it? Besides, uninstalling Edge is nigh near impossible.
So saying you can install a browser without using Edge is ? a bit questionable in itself, since Edge is auto installed on every Windows PC made.

What point are you trying to make? First you had an issue with using Edge to download Firefox and now you're arguing for doing it that way. The original issue with your post is that you claimed "You CAN NOT install any browser you want". That is clearly incorrect. I'm done arguing, as you seem to fall into the category of people who never, ever admit they made a mistake. If you must always be right in life, well, good luck with that.

Bree · Jul 27, 2023

PennsyNut said:
Bree: I had found the info years ago and don't know how to do so today. But. I had found proof that Chrome was a clone of IE. And that all new browsers are clones of IE. I agree that it sounds like it might be bogus. But. Who cares? Firefox does everything it's supposed to and updates automatically.

Firefox is my preferred default browser too.

Chrome however seem to have little, if anything of IE in it's DNA.

Chrome was assembled from 25 different code libraries from Google and third parties such as Mozilla's Netscape Portable Runtime, Network Security Services, NPAPI (dropped as of version 45),[49] Skia Graphics Engine, SQLite, and a number of other open-source projects.[50] The V8 JavaScript virtual machine was considered a sufficiently important project to be split off (as was Adobe/Mozilla's Tamarin) and handled by a separate team in Denmark coordinated by Lars Bak.

Google Chrome - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

PennsyNut · Jul 27, 2023

As I said. It was years ago that I read about IE being the base for Chrome and all new browsers. So for today, it's entirely possible that has changed. I'm not arguing the point. I'm only saying that with Firefox and Edge, there isn't much need for other browsers. But this is up to the individual. And people can do what they want. God gave us free choice. And look at the damage people can do with "free choice". LOL

idgat · Jul 27, 2023

PennsyNut said:
Most of the new browsers are clones of IE or Chrome or whatever?

Just because they use the underlying browser technology (Chromium, Mozilla, etc) doesn't make them/mean they're "clones". In some cases, they're a much superior browser than the original technology browser.

WAI · Jul 27, 2023

I have to say people don't like FF is bc they think it's just a Linux Based Browser Ah Ha

Wynona · Jul 28, 2023

PennsyNut said:
Hmmm! I wonder about all the responses. Fact or fiction. You CAN NOT install any browser you want. MS comes with Edge and that's that. In order to install any other browser, you need Edge to do so. So - that's what I did. Installed Firefox as my default and keep Edge as a back up. And those are the only 2 I need. IMHO.
Chrome is an older Edge. Most of the new browsers are clones of IE or Chrome or whatever? I don't have the facts. Just my common sense. Firefox and Edge are all I need. IMHO.

With any new installation of Windows 11 (or any new computer, for that matter) Microsoft Edge comes with it as default. The natural result is to think one has to actually use Edge to get another browser of their choice. And that is true, so far as things go. However . . .

Because I'm always working on others' computers, and clean installing Windows quite often, I've found other ways to do things than to just accept that I can't change what Microsoft thinks I should have on my computer. As my mother always told me, "There are more ways than one to skin a cat . . . although I don't understand why I would do that!

I keep a flash drive with various default apps, such as Firefox, Unchecky, Speccy, Libre Office, etc. Then when clean installing or setting up a new computer, I install Firefox first. Voila! No use of Edge necessary! And, if Firefox Setup is out of date, all I have to do is let it update itself.

This, of course, doesn't work if the computer is new and the new owner has no real computer knowledge or friends who do.

S/he probably wouldn't know about flash drives, or even browsers. So, they'd just keep using Edge. Eventually, though, they'd learn.

And now for the disclaimer: I use Windows 11, and have used Microsoft products all the way back to MS DOS and Windows 3.0, learning all the way. I've been a Beta Tester, and seen the good and bad decisions made by Microsoft. I'm not above complaining. I'm also not above giving credit where where credit is due. In fact, Windows is the best and most secure OS we have as far as I'm concerned.

Oh, and I'm not going to use Edge!

Wynona · Jul 28, 2023

Helmut said:
Now that is nonsense, and several distortions of fact.

The facts are that the Mozilla group and others insisted that they were discriminated against during the installation of Windows, they did not like the fact a Web Browser was installed with Windows. So the EU decided that on installation of Windows users be given a choice of Web Browsers, one of those choices was Firefox.
One of the Windows updates was for this Browser choice in the EU countries which at the time included UK.

Load of nonsense, you could always install any Web Browser you liked. I just blocked that stupid Browser choice bloatware update due mainly to the insistance of Mozilla.

Downloading Firefox or Chrome no problem, Windows 10 or 11.

Oh? Am I correct that you've never heard of Netscape?

BTW, there's no call to be so rude. We here in this forum pride ourselves in being polite.

PennsyNut · Jul 29, 2023

What I must clarify is: I used the word "clone" because that's what I had read that ALL the new browsers were using the old IE as it's base. Maybe the word "clone" isn't correct. But all I was saying is what I had read. (Obviously, everything I read is not gospel.) So - bottom line is: A few years ago, I saw a reliable source show details of how IE was done, and some subsequent proof that Chrome was identical. Now, a few years have passed and I couldn't find that proof. So, if I'm wrong. I apologize. But. Having said all this. I still avoid any browser other than Firefox. And only keep Edge for 2 reasons. 1>it come with a PC and is difficult to uninstall. and 2> There are a few occasions where a web site don't work with Firefox. Now today. Firefox does work on that web site, so it proves that Firefox updates are working. And Edge is reliable as a back up.
Now, as for search engines. Bing and others just don't "cut the mustard". Even Google has a bit to learn. That's why I use DuckDuckGo.com.
I fully realize that this is a Windows forum and we who write on here are supportive of MS and Windows - or we wouldn't be here. But that don't mean we can't constructively criticise MS or Windows. Or recommend things that make life easier.