Keyboard issue after 24H2 install

Hazel123 said:

Clean installing windows 11 on this machine goes badly - it needs Windows 10 first.

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Is this also a driver-related issue, perhaps.


Denis

Actually I have an image for this machine from when it was on 23H2 so think I’ll put that in it rather than starting from scratch.

Try3 said:

Is this also a driver-related issue, perhaps.


Denis

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Yes maybe but even with the same drivers there must be something in windows 10 that makes it more stable in Windows 11. It just works better installing 10 first but as mentioned above just remembered I have an image for this machine for W11 after Windows 10 installed first.

So I have 23H2 installed from my image. Decided to stay on the for now. The touchpad is still not quite as good as it used to be - the same as in my original laptop- it sometimes takes more than one tap for anything to happen. It has the latest synaptics driver installed.

I think Windows 11 is going to get less and less friendly for my 10th geveration laptops. Doesn’t help that HP have no windows 11 drivers for it and no new drivers since 2021 (most are 2020).

I'm not requesting help for this, but in my miniPC with Windows 11 the mouse is lately "mini-hanging", the hangs last several seconds and happen more if recently booted up. Maybe it's the cable I'm not sure yet. This mouse is USB, it costed 1.50 € new in a serious physical commerce and I bought it for curiosity. The USB keyboard does also have these mini-hangs but a lot less frequently. Recently it has lost the left leg b/c it broke in 2 or 3 pieces for no reason. The breaking pattern has been strange, not like it didn't resist up-to down forces, more like if it had a random semi-crack from factory that turned into a full crack. This keyboard was acquired new "normally cheap" and it looked serious.

Both are connected to a USB2 hub that I plug in one of the USB3 native sockets. Not lately, I've had to unplug and replug this hub like 3-4 times total during the device's life (in use since 2021). I've used 3 mice in this device, the 1st and most serious one stopped working for no reason, I didn't like the 2nd one whose buttons are very hard and noisy, the current mouse is between the two in quality. Only one keyboard.

In short I've noticed some possible dependency on the PC activity (the more active the more fails) but not definitely and it might be hw.

In my Windows 10 desktop I use an old PS/2 keyboard with a slight defect in some lower left keys, the worst one is the "x" (I've had to type it twice now). Maybe they work better or worse depending on temperature, humidity etc, but I know it's defective since I started with it (2nd hand article). The Hazel123 issues might have patterns of this kind but with defects developed recently.

I suggest AquaKeyTest for the keyboard (I'm 99% sure it works in Windows 11 although I cannot recall installing or testing it, and most likely I haven't used it under 24H2, it belongs to my usual pack of not frequently used resources).

Thank you but the keyboard is not much use now since I broke one of the keys anyway. I do have my spare laptop set up now but I don’t like it

It’s been some bad luck really. Three days ago I had a fully functioning laptop. And all I did was decide to upgrade office to 2024. Couldn’t get 2021 uninstalled (I suspect the cheap office 2021 pro plus was the issue) even with support from Microsoft. So I decided to do a clean install. Got that done and the keyboard started having issues!

I can only think it got too hot doing all the installing and it affected the keyboard.

The only thing that really annoys me is that the keyboard is not easy to replace - not even sure if it’s worth trying. I don’t fancy taking the motherboard out.

bobkn said:

I've never done it, but I assume that you could plug in a USB keyboard. If you had one.

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Laptops will use a USB keyboard if one is plugged in. It's how I use my work laptop. External keyboard, monitor and mouse; the laptop itself stays closed except to power it on.

Yes it could be used as a desktop I like to use something portable generally, but good point.

I would check BIOS for typing speed or similar setting. Once I tried to change the default value in my motherboard and I had similar issues, couldn't type properly. If there is such value see if there is an auto setting. Otherwise try lowering it.

Thank you. There is very little in this bios. I think the clean install finished it off somehow. It’s only about six years old but they aren’t built like they used to be - too thin. It’s very annoying because it was perfectly fine a few days ago. It’s my own fault for not getting a full price copy of office 2 or 3 years ago! Although most machines would be fine after a clean install.

The spare one I set up on, the screen just died . So I have one with a working keyboard and one with a working screen . It’s always been a bit dodgy.

As I need something up and running asap, to get some work done and access things, I’ve now set up my third one - which works fine but only has a 500gb ssd (trying to remove that would probably break the laptop -I’ve tried multiple ways before). So I can’t put my 2tb drive on it.

As such I now how it set up and online accounts connected but all my files are on an external drive which I have to keep plugging in . And when I tried to transfer my new office licence on there it said you can only have two activations and you’ve already had them! So I apparently have to phone Microsoft now.

And the screen on this one has gone yellow at one side. I think it’s time I bought a new laptop. I don’t want to because I don’t like them - aside from the cost - they all have huge touchpads now.

I had three of the same model (all bought used) because I liked the small touchpad.

I would either connect an external monitor or TV to the one with the working keyboard or a USB keyboard to the one with the working screen.

I will do - it can be a backup computer. But I need something portable as well. And something that will run my video editing software. So I’m looking at new laptops and trying to find one that doesn’t have an enormous touchpad and has a good keyboard for typing ….

Ok my third spare laptop (the one with the ssd restriction) works fine. And I've just realised there is space for a sata drive inside it - if I can find the right cable. I have a few sata drives unused! So I could increase the storage size and use this one (which would be easier than trying to swap keyboards. I don't know how long this one will last - the screen at the right side has gone slightly beige/off colour. It's not that noticeable but I suspect that's the start of hardware failure as well. So maybe I won't need to buy another laptop.

The reason I like this model (and had three of them) is because they have upgradeable ram. And now it seems they have the option to add a sata drive as well. So I could be up and running fully in a few days if I can find the right sata cable.

The second one (where the screen failed) was also giving off a very unpleasant chemical smell. And although I could keep it for spares, it would only really be for the battery, seeing as keyboards are so hard to replace!

So at the moment I'm thinking of keeping going with this spare laptop with a sata drive in and possibly look at getting a desktop, which would be more easily upgradeable - but would probably end up costing more because then I'd need a desk a chair and a monitor (and have to sit in one room!).

I'll need to test the original one with an external keyboard first to see if it would work as a desktop.

In laptops with the keyboard detachable, it is easy to replace if you remove the appropriate screws. However some models have the keyboard stuck on a metallic base and is deformed while trying to remove it. You cannot put it back, you are supposed to replace it with a new one. Optionally to stick the new keyboard on the metallic base you can use a soldering iron on some holes for a couple of seconds to melt the plastic and make it stick on the base as you draw the iron away. Been there done that, not something I would like to do often.

Hazel123 said:

The fourth one is the nicest one to use but (bought second hand) the ssd screw is mangled and seems glued in - someone didn’t want that hard drive replacing. Gave up on that a while back so it’s just a spare

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Were you trying to remove the SSD so you could replace it? Is it the screw that mounts the SSD to a mounting bracket or to the laptop? What I'm thinking is to drill out the screw. To replace the drive if needed you could leave out a screw if you have too or use Velcro to hold it in place. I have used Velcro to hold a SSD in a desktop. Worked great.

Hazel123 said:

The only thing that really annoys me is that the keyboard is not easy to replace - not even sure if it’s worth trying. I don’t fancy taking the motherboard out.

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My wife had a HP laptop that had a keyboard get possessed. Or to be more honest that's what I jokingly told her. When a key was pressed it would type whatever it decided to type. It was a pain but I replace it for her. A few months later it did it again. I wasn't going to waste any more time and money on it so we bought a new HP laptop to replace it. The old laptop was stripped of the good reusable parts and sent to the electronic recycle center in the sky.

Your first post clearly indicates heat damage to Keyboard contacts in certain areas. Those will be above the hottest components like the CPU.
Easy to check by touching the keyboard in the respective areas when near to 100% load.
The cure is to replace the Keyboard, not so easy on modern Laptops.

Most Laptops have cheap poor quality membrane keyboards that are not resistant to heat and directly above heat generating sources.

I wouldn't not mind removing a few screws, but if the keyboard is stuck on a metallic base is more difficult to replace it. I would rather buy a compact USB keyboard. There are also soft rubber keyboards that you can wrap and put it in the laptop bag, although they take more time to get used to and need a hard surface to be placed on.

Helmut said:

Your first post clearly indicates heat damage to Keyboard contacts in certain areas. Those will be above the hottest components like the CPU.
Easy to check by touching the keyboard in the respective areas when near to 100% load.
The cure is to replace the Keyboard, not so easy on modern Laptops.

Most Laptops have cheap poor quality membrane keyboards that are not resistant to heat and directly above heat generating sources.

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Thank you. And that's what I guessed because the keyboard was perfectly fine until I did a reinstall and the laptop could well have got overheated during that. The idea of thin laptops is ridiculous IMO! Or at least have SOME thick laptops still available - but there aren't any.

So between three identical laptops I have some options. One of them is defunct but has a good screen and keyboard. One has a defunct keyboard and a good screen. The third one I am using now has a good keyboard and a screen that is going a bit.

So I'm thinking it would be easier to swap a screen than to swap a keyboard! There is a fourth one as well with a bad screen and good keyboard. It's just the keyboards are not easy to change. By the time I've removed every single item from the case, including the motherboard, I am likely to bork something - even if I video removal to make sure everything goes back right.