New Version of ExplorerPatcher

stevemagruder · Mar 25, 2022

valinet said:
I mean, yeah, it’s not totally unexpected. By default, taskbar thumbnails are broken in these newer OS builds, EP does some things to revive them. Check the commits for more details. And File Explorer does not restart - it probably crashes and gets restarted by its parent. If you enable crash dumps, it would probably make one which would offer much better insight over what is happening.

Thank you for the insights. Without further testing, I'm blaming 7+TT on this one as it loads after EP. From their release notes, they're not yet caught up to this Windows 11 beta. My main attraction to it was its reducing the space between taskbar icons, but I have enough real estate on this monitor to do without it, so it's uninstalled until they release a new version.

Wynona · Mar 25, 2022

valinet said:
You really seem to hate the documentation: Symbols · valinet/ExplorerPatcher Wiki

If you’re on Dev builds and symbols haven’t downloaded, WinX doesn’t work. Or maybe it doesn’t work because they removed the code all together or because some other symbol was removed. I said a million times already, but it’s hard for the message to reach everyone it seems, I don’t have all the time in the world to fix EP weekly on Dev builds. The goal is to fix it on major stable W11 updates. Also, I fail to understand why run bleeding edge W11 and then a program that undoes all the changes they do, what’s the point anymore…

People now have learnt my email address, I get bombarded with support mails, no one reads the wiki.

If you're replying to me, I have gone back to the non-Insider Build of Windows 11. Then reinstalled EP. I have bookmarked the docs and read part of them, as I've had time.

I will get there, but it takes time.

And yes, I'd love to use the Windows 10 Taskbar, but so far, haven't figured out a way to get right click to work on the Start Menu. If there's a solution, I will find it.

And I'm not complaining; I'm just joining in the discussion. I'm really happy with what you've done for us.

Wynona · Mar 25, 2022

Lim_Dul said:
Oh boy... What I learned from all my years in IT is that documentation unfortunately doesn't help in like 80% of cases, especially for the purposes of 1st Level Support. Most will rather write, call, ask someone - even if the answer is RTFM. I mean, very often 1st Level Support's role basically IS reading back the documentation / FAQs / checklists to the user on the phone...
You have created absolutely wonderful and extensive documentation uncharacteristic for a hobby FOSS project but any hopes that this would reduce support efforts is naive based on my experience. What extensive documentation usually helps with are the power users or the devs themselves - especially on collaborative projects - who are more likely to seek out information themselves.
Rather than the docs and FAQ, especially for this generation, you'd probably have achieved more with TikTok-Videos.

At this point I think the only way to happiness for you is treating this purely as a personal hobby project - do whatever works for you and makes you happy and ignore feature / bug requests that don't affect you personally.
I know it sounds harsh but you said yourself that you haven't found co-devs and you really don't owe the world anything. You are now basically suffering for the unbelievably crappy design decisions MS have made for W11. Even I started booting more often into Linux after switching to W11. Without EP the interface would be close to unusable from a Power-User perspective and thus it's not unexpected that the project attracted thousands of people world-wide.

P.S. Is the E-Mail address people found out about by any chance the one listed in the README.md on GitHub? I'd remove it. Providing such a direct way for users to interact with you can only cause headaches since it's working by pushing information onto you instead of you deciding when you pull information.

Hear! Hear!

While teaching class yesterday, I wanted to say to a couple students, RTFM! It's right there in black and white in the tutorial that's right front of you! Look at the 40" screen where I'm showing you what to do! Yes, we tend to ask questions first instead of doing our own research.

I have a habit of printing the user guides/manuals and what-not for review, but haven't gotten around to that in this case. I have read some of the guide on screen, but not enough by far. I will remedy that post haste.

I would say to @valinet, please don't take our problems as a personal attack on you. The fact is, there are lots of gurus here who are helping you out by answering questions from those of us who are struggling to find answers.

And to those who have finally found the answer to that burning question, tell us how you solved your problem. If you would, it would be greatly appreciated by all.

valinet · Mar 25, 2022

Wynona said:
If you're replying to me, I have gone back to the non-Insider Build of Windows 11. Then reinstalled EP. I have bookmarked the docs and read part of them, as I've had time.

I will get there, but it takes time.

And yes, I'd love to use the Windows 10 Taskbar, but so far, haven't figured out a way to get right click to work on the Start Menu. If there's a solution, I will find it.

And I'm not complaining; I'm just joining in the discussion. I'm really happy with what you've done for us.

On regular builds, WinX should work. It does so the current stable OS build at least (22000.556).

Wynona · Mar 25, 2022

valinet said:
On regular builds, WinX should work. It does so the current stable OS build at least (22000.556).

I may need to take it down to bare metal and do a clean install of Windows 11 before things will work like they should. We'll see; I don't jump off the cliff without a parachute. :)

Hmmm, I've already done that; you can't go back to regular from DEV without a clean install.

stevemagruder · Mar 25, 2022

Right click on (Win10) Start is also not working for me, but as far as I'm concerned, I can be extremely patient for that to be addressed. I was just using that menu for lazy access to the Device Manager. So I created an even lazier way to access it, by creating a shortcut and throwing that into my fence for PC/network admin.

Wynona · Mar 25, 2022

stevemagruder said:
Right click on (Win10) Start is also not working for me, but as far as I'm concerned, I can be extremely patient for that to be addressed. I was just using that menu for lazy access to the Device Manager. So I created an even lazier way to access it, by creating a shortcut and throwing that into my fence for PC/network admin.

Yep, I can wait too. I tossed my problem with right click out there so it would be known. Sorry you have the same issue, but at least I know I'm not alone or a little bit nutso.

And, I really like having Quick Launch back because I use it extensively. In fact, I'm going back to the Windows 10 Taskbar. So, there, Microsoft, take that!

valinet · Mar 25, 2022

Would you all bother mentioning where the problem happens? Stable, dev, beta and exact OS build? You may wait, I understand and thanks for that, but it would still be nice where the problem is exactly happening so I can eventually look on it and fix it.

Afaik, it happens on dev builds. And yeah, eventually it will get fixed there. But is it happening on stable builds as well, or not?

The-Hive · Mar 25, 2022

No problem, just reporting what is happening, my taskbar is still transparent and now fully functional after updating the Win 11 dev build and EP

Lim_Dul · Mar 25, 2022

stevemagruder said:
Thank you for the insights. Without further testing, I'm blaming 7+TT on this one as it loads after EP. From their release notes, they're not yet caught up to this Windows 11 beta. My main attraction to it was its reducing the space between taskbar icons, but I have enough real estate on this monitor to do without it, so it's uninstalled until they release a new version.

By the way - I'm also using 7+ Taskbar Tweaker and it's working fine for me with the Win 10 Taskbar Option. No crashes. Checked show thumbnail preview also. Windows 11 Pro 21H2, 7+TT v5.12.13, EP 22000.556.43.2 (at the moment of writing).
I wouldn't hold my breath for 7+TT officially supporting anything W11 since I believe the author already announced that it's too big a jump and that he wouldn't be doing anything about it - so if there are issues with the Win10 patched Taskbar I also wouldn't bet my life on them getting fixed.

7+ Taskbar Tweaker on Windows 11 with Windows 10’s taskbar - Ramen Software

stevemagruder · Mar 25, 2022

valinet said:
Would you all bother mentioning where the problem happens? Stable, dev, beta and exact OS build? You may wait, I understand and thanks for that, but it would still be nice where the problem is exactly happening so I can eventually look on it and fix it.

Afaik, it happens on dev builds. And yeah, eventually it will get fixed there. But is it happening on stable builds as well, or not?

My specs are updated here. See "My Computer" below. I did just add "(Beta)" for clarity.

stevemagruder · Mar 25, 2022

Lim_Dul said:
By the way - I'm also using 7+ Taskbar Tweaker and it's working fine for me with the Win 10 Taskbar Option. No crashes. Checked show thumbnail preview also. Windows 11 Pro 21H2, 7+TT v5.12.13, EP 22000.556.43.2 (at the moment of writing).

The difference between our systems appears to be that I'm on the Windows 11 Beta - 22H2 Build 22581.1.

NoDoze · Mar 25, 2022

Windows 11 Pro Dev 22581.100
ExplorerPatcher V Dev 22000.556.43.2

Just updated and the Virtual Desktop shortcuts (like Win + Tab) and the taskbar view desktops button are all broken.
The only thing working is the Win + CTRL arrows to switch between the virtual desktops.

I did switch the Taskbar style back to Windows 11 and everything worked as it should. So the issue is specific to just the Taskbar style Windows 10.

ExplorerPatcher is always updating frequently, so I'm sure the works are already in the wheelhouse. Just wanted to post here encase any one else has similar issues.

Thank you

valinet · Mar 25, 2022

NoDoze said:
Windows 11 Pro Dev 22581.100
ExplorerPatcher V Dev 22000.556.43.2

Just updated and the Virtual Desktop shortcuts (like Win + Tab) and the taskbar view desktops button are all broken.
The only thing working is the Win + CTRL arrows to switch between the virtual desktops.

I did switch the Taskbar style back to Windows 11 and everything worked as it should. So the issue is specific to just the Taskbar style Windows 10.

ExplorerPatcher is always updating frequently, so I'm sure the works are already in the wheelhouse. Just wanted to post here encase any one else has similar issues.

Thank you

No, the works are not in the wheelhouse. I don’t have time at the moment, and honestly, with how much has changed, idk if I’ll ever catch up. Every day I learn about tons of stuff not working anymore…

@The-Hive the taskbar is still transparent on Dev? I just tested it and it appeared that I fixed it. Latest pre-release of EP, latest dev build. I don’t get it…

stevemagruder · Mar 25, 2022

NoDoze said:
Just updated and the Virtual Desktop shortcuts (like Win + Tab) and the taskbar view desktops button are all broken.
The only thing working is the Win + CTRL arrows to switch between the virtual desktops.

Same for me. I don't usually use that feature or else I would have reported it sooner.

stevemagruder · Mar 25, 2022

valinet said:
No, the works are not in the wheelhouse. I don’t have time at the moment, and honestly, with how much has changed, idk if I’ll ever catch up. Every day I learn about tons of stuff not working anymore…

We're on a beta release. We expect that not everything will work, and that fixes won't always be quick. I understand how overwhelming this all is, but it's ok to relax. :) I and I'm sure everyone else greatly appreciates the work you've already done.

NoDoze · Mar 25, 2022

valinet said:
No, the works are not in the wheelhouse. I don’t have time at the moment, and honestly, with how much has changed, idk if I’ll ever catch up. Every day I learn about tons of stuff not working anymore…

@The-Hive the taskbar is still transparent on Dev? I just tested it and it appeared that I fixed it. Latest pre-release of EP, latest dev build. I don’t get it…

One step at a time. You've done plenty of good for the world already! I don't know what magic powers you have, but they are truly special! I have faith!

valinet · Mar 25, 2022

stevemagruder said:
We're on a beta release. We expect that not everything will work, and that fixes won't always be quick. I understand how overwhelming this all is, but it's ok to relax. :) I and I'm sure everyone else greatly appreciates the work you've already done.

Yeah, I understand. And I’m grateful for that. But I also Am speaking what’s on my mind and how I view things: it seems to me that more stuff is broken with the current approach than works. Who’s going to fix all of those? It’s a lot of work to do. Maybe you don’t actually realize how much time I spent even getting the app to this functional level. But to do it every couple of months all over again? Who can resist doing that? And for what? And why? There’s nothing to learn, it’s just the same boring detective work, basically fighting the upstream at this point.

And really, I start to seriously question me using Windows 11 at all. I mean, I have other stuff to do on the computer. I need to do other work as well. I can’t spend all the time fighting Microsoft’s team. Windows 11 mainly interested me because of WSL2 improvements, but honestly, there are other solutions out there already for those very rare instances where I’d use the new features. Other than that it’s about what, for me? WSA and rounded corners for windows, idk. The list is tiny. Windows 10 LTSC 2021 looks so good, works so nice out of the box, has the familiar shell, it’s updated security wise for 10 years, it’s stable, without any new rubbish they introduce, I can do my work just fine on it and be done with all this madness. It’s very very very tempting. I had it running in a couple of instances and yeah, it gets the job done with ease.

And I mean, I kind of have to reinstall Windows anyway one day or the other, start fresh.

valinet · Mar 25, 2022

NoDoze said:
One step at a time. You've done plenty of good for the world already! I don't know what magic powers you have, but they are truly special! I have faith!

Thanks, but it’s nothing magic, it’s work and an occupation like all the others, I am not a God or anything like that. It’s work that I do not enjoy doing as it’s futile at this point. I’d rather write a taskbar and replace the new one and still live in that shell rather than fix everything that’s broken, tbh. But writing a taskbar properly to satisfy everyone with the current functionality and then some other things on top simply is a monumental task. I mean, it takes Microsoft years to do, so what can we expect here…

stevemagruder · Mar 25, 2022

valinet said:
Yeah, I understand. And I’m grateful for that. But I also Am speaking what’s on my mind and how I view things: it seems to me that more stuff is broken with the current approach than works. Who’s going to fix all of those? It’s a lot of work to do. Maybe you don’t actually realize how much time I spent even getting the app to this functional level. But to do it every couple of months all over again? Who can resist doing that? And for what? And why? There’s nothing to learn, it’s just the same boring detective work, basically fighting the upstream at this point.

And really, I start to seriously question me using Windows 11 at all. I mean, I have other stuff to do on the computer. I need to do other work as well. I can’t spend all the time fighting Microsoft’s team. Windows 11 mainly interested me because of WSL2 improvements, but honestly, there are other solutions out there already for those very rare instances where I’d use the new features. Other than that it’s about what, for me? WSA and rounded corners for windows, idk. The list is tiny. Windows 10 LTSC 2021 looks so good, works so nice out of the box, has the familiar shell, it’s updated security wise for 10 years, it’s stable, without any new rubbish they introduce, I can do my work just fine on it and be done with all this madness. It’s very very very tempting. I had it running in a couple of instances and yeah, it gets the job done with ease.

And I mean, I kind of have to reinstall Windows anyway one day or the other, start fresh.

Yeah, I vaguely understand what you're going through. I once had to write software that tried to keep up with developing and poorly implemented specs, and I thought I was losing my mind a bit. and it never really got to a state of completion. Hopefully, the Win11 devs will cool their jets a bit in this area so app developers can better keep up, or at least implement the features we want preserved like having the taskbar at the top (I mean, their user base wants this badly, according to public feedback).

I also agree there weren't many reasons to upgrade. For me, it was WSLg and the (potential of) Windows Subsystem for Android.