Seeking a second opinion... Is OneDrive malicious malpractice ?

gunrunnerjohn said:

You have hit on exactly my primary objection to OneDrive! I never argued it didn't work, just that it's certainly not transparent and easy to understand what it's doing out of the gate. This is coming from a guy that had been in software development since he was in his 20's!

Yes, I'm sure I could easily figure it out and use it, but my point is I shouldn't have to "figure it out"! And it certainly shouldn't be the default!

Moving the data is one of the simplest jobs when I migrate to a different computer! All my files are on a separate logical data drive, so I just copy the drive, problem solved! Even stuff like my email data base, etc. are on the data drive. The time consuming part of moving to a new computer is really installing all the applications, and OneDrive ain't gonna do that for you.

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I'm certainly not trying to criticize anyone, as we all have different levels of expertise and experience, but for me, I am no longer the young geek guy I once was and now simplicity matters. However, I found it very easy to understand how OneDrive works: Whatever is in C:\...\OneDrive is what gets synced with the cloud, period; it truly is that simple.

Yes, if all your data files are on some sort of network/shared resource then it is just as simple as OneDrive to get re-started on a new PC, after all the applications have been installed, because you can then just simply point your data folders to that network/shared resource. However, if you need/want multi-device and/or offline multi-user access/collaboration for those files, this is where OneDrive comes in handy, keeping everything in sync.

Been using Skydrive, later renamed to OneDrive for many years to store an extra backup copy of files i wanted to make sure was safe

In addtion i have the files backed up on 4 Other external drives

Also Pay for Office 365, so i make sure to get some use out of it.

Only store up there Purchased Xbox Music/Groove Music from way back in Windows 8 and maybe early Windows 10 days if it still worked then. and some GameDVR Clips from American Truck Simulator & Euro Truck Simulator 2 typically


SecondLife Game Pictures

and Some non personal documents related to PC maintenance commands and such


I use Onedrive daily myself

Marie SWE said:

Both Bitlocker and Onedrive is a good idea.. but... i give MS an A for the effort, but an F for the execution in the default format of them.

Edit:
How stupid was MS when they put in a backdoor to get around bitlocker.. sure it might make some people happy if they hadn't written down the key.. But encryption is supposed to be unrecoverable if you slip up or the device get stolen.
How stupid is it to have the encryption key in the hands of a company that can be ordered to hand over the key.
How stupid is it that the data in the cloud isn't encrypted so MS can read the data. If they get a data-breach and someone get clear access to their servers. Then they can get to the data.

So A in effort and an F in execution on default solution.
So a user has to take extra step to secure their data before it becomes a good solution.. that is not good as 99% of the people will not take those steps.. only nerd like us do.

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Backdoor or not, my paranoid assumption is that the cloud service provider can see and access my files.

As such, for my personal laptops, everything I upload is AES 256-encrypted before I upload; so, even if the cloud admin or some hacker gets access to my files, they will still need to be able to crack the password to view the file contents. With OneNote, this can't be done with the notebook, so I do the next best thing: I password-protect every section in the notebook. The net effect is, once again, you can't see anything unless you are able to crack the password.

Microsoft was defensive about the backdoor announcement, but I was not surprised with the revelation, and my position is don't trust them or anyone; that is, even if well-intentioned, this is IT and we are human, so mistakes/bugs can and will occur.

nuspieds said:

Backdoor or not, my paranoid assumption is that the cloud service provider can see and access my files.

As such, for my personal laptops, everything I upload is AES 256-encrypted before I upload; so, even if the cloud admin or some hacker gets access to my files, they will still need to be able to crack the password to view the file contents. With OneNote, this can't be done with the notebook, so I do the next best thing: I password-protect every section in the notebook. The net effect is, once again, you can't see anything unless you are able to crack the password.

Microsoft was defensive about the backdoor announcement, but I was not surprised with the revelation, and my position is don't trust them or anyone; that is, even if well-intentioned, this is IT and we are human, so mistakes/bugs can and will occur.

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Encryption i never ever checked out for my files, i thought about it, but then never looked into it further. I doubt i'd be able to encrypt all 200GB of GameDVR videos, reuploading all that would be alot to do i think.

I may have to research the encryption aspect more, i'd be willing to do that, i typically don't forget passwords, and do have Roboform Password Manager these days

TraderGary said:

For me one of the most important features that OneDrive offers is a real-time offsite copy of all my data. From personal experience having one component of my backup strategy always offsite and always up to date in real time is vitally important. I never want to lose even a single byte of anything I'm working on throughout my day.

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I originally used AWS, then I switched to GCP (for cost reasons), then I switched to OneDrive (also for cost reasons, since it was now free/included with my ISP service).

I used third-party tools to upload to AWS and GCP and they worked well; I especially liked the detailed progress stats. But when there was a glitch (e.g., my computer froze, loss of internet connection, etc.), this is where things would become unpredictable and tricky. Nevertheless, I had a process in place and knew the steps to perform in the event of an interruption.

OneDrive, on the other hand, is like a set-it-and-forget-it tool. As a test, I deliberately shutdown my PC prematurely, cut off the internet, etc., and when I rebooted, syncing resumed without me having to lift a finger. Absolutely fabulous!!!

nuspieds said:

Backdoor or not, my paranoid assumption is that the cloud service provider can see and access my files.

As such, for my personal laptops, everything I upload is AES 256-encrypted before I upload; so, even if the cloud admin or some hacker gets access to my files, they will still need to be able to crack the password to view the file contents. With OneNote, this can't be done with the notebook, so I do the next best thing: I password-protect every section in the notebook. The net effect is, once again, you can't see anything unless you are able to crack the password.

Microsoft was defensive about the backdoor announcement, but I was not surprised with the revelation, and my position is don't trust them or anyone; that is, even if well-intentioned, this is IT and we are human, so mistakes/bugs can and will occur.

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I only reused the word backdoor from both bug-hunters and security researches as they found the incident to wired to actually be a bug and not an intentionally "bug"
So its not my opinion, But i have to tend to agree with what i read.. it seems just to easy.

Yeah.. to be sure you should encrypt the data before uploading to someone else computer... You can always host your own cloud storage, then you do have full control......... But its not fun to keep up with security when web-hosting yourself. *lol*


((Time for me to get some sleep.. its 5AM over here.. ))

cheaterslick said:

Sure, when OneDrive is turned off by default.

And when having an email address is no longer a requirement by default to set up a new machine. Just like the good old days.

I think that would go quite a ways....

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I think that we are way beyond that, unfortunately.

Today, the assumption is that we are all internet-connected. Especially when watching some important news story about some incident or whatever, I am always puzzled by the company-in-question's single-solution directive to go their website. I'm, like, but what about those who don't have internet access?! Can't you at least also give out a phone number?! Sheesh!

pparks1 said:

Im probably minority, but I don't think shutting it off my default is the right answer. For most people who are not enthusiasts. Having it there and on i think is the best thing.

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Agreed!

OneDrive is a very valuable tool that allows you to seamlessly maintain and sync with a cloud copy of your (important) files, so that you can access and edit them from other devices and get back up and running using a new device, but without losing any of that data. This is functionally that definitely should be enabled by default.

However, it is also functionality that warrants a "Welcome to OneDrive" tutorial to demonstrate how it works so that, at the end of the tutorial, Microsoft can ask the question, "Do you want to enable this functionality?" It wouldn't take them much time/effort to do this.

Release Notes are fine for some things but the quick-and-dirty way out is not always the best or right approach.

nuspieds said:

This is functionally that definitely should be enabled by default.

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I'll whole heartedly disagree with this, especially when it only gives you 5 GB of storage. We discussed that and losing data from running out of space earlier. But then again I don't use it or need it.

IMHO, Microsoft Backup should never have been introduced in the first place. The vast majority are simply appliance users. They want to turn it ON and it just works. They're not going to take the time to learn or think or read.

OneDrive should have been left the way it had been since it was introduced 19 years ago. Available for use by the few who want to learn to use it and ignored by everyone else.

cheaterslick said:

Given all the problems with it that you are reading about in these forums, I don't see how you came to that conclusion.

Another option would be to leave it off Windows 11 in it's entirety and offer OneDrive through the Microsoft Store as an add-in module. For those who want it, that is. Otherwise the less savvy will continue to come on these forums, frustrated looking for endless 'back-up' answers.

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But it's too important and valuable of a functionality to leave off by default.

I'm very much no longer the young tech geek guy I used to be, but I was able to grasp the understanding of OneDrive. I'm not saying that everyone is or should be like me; rather, I'm just stating how the initial experience was for me.

Moreover, the default OneDrive behavior did and does not suit my use case; that is, I do not want to keep certain files/folders on my PC in sync with OneDrive. Rather, I want to use OneDrive as a cloud repository to store my backups giving me--after my USB and NAS--a third and offsite copy of my backups. Just by doing some additional reading/research, I was able to accomplish this OneDrive functional setup!

Bear with me for a second here but I think since the introduction of the iPhone, we entered into an era of, "Oh, it's so simple, you don't need instructions or a help guide! Just push buttons, slide selectors on/off, click dropdown boxes and make a selection, etc. Who needs a User Manual?!"

That is, it would serve Microsoft and the Windows community well if Microsoft had and were to publish basic video tutorial(s) to explain what OneDrive is and how it works; at the end of the tutorial(s), they could then ask the user if the feature should be enabled. Again, in the era of the iPhone, this is not just about OneDrive: Point-in-time Restore is another feature that I think warrants a video tutorial rather than just blog/release notes.

FrancoDT said:

I'd be curious to know if most average OneDrive users can get by with the free 5GB of storage or if most pay for additional storage. I don't use it so don't know how fast it fills up before you start losing data if you don't upgrade. I looked up the pricing plan out of curiosity:

• Free Tier: 5 GB of storage. It includes web versions of Word and Excel but fills up almost instantly if you back up photos or phone data.
• Microsoft 365 Basic: $1.99/month (or ~$19.99/year). This expands your pool to 100 GB and removes ads from Outlook.
• Microsoft 365 Personal: $6.99/month (or $69.99/year). This jumps your storage up to 1 TB (1,000 GB) and unlocks desktop Office apps.
• Microsoft 365 Family: $9.99/month (or $99.99/year). This provides 6 TB total storage space, allocated as 1 TB each for up to 6 family members.

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As great as the OneDrive feature is, make no mistake that it's a bait! That is, they all do it (i.e., Apple, Google, Microsoft, etc.): You get very little free storage in the hopes that you will then ask for more and pay them monthly for the additional storage!

Case in point:

I pay yearly for Office 365 Family, originally bought in 2017 with previous gaming laptop for 5 years, then renewed it every year since.
Onedrive I have for my usage 1TB of space

Overall works good for my needs, but I know everyone has there preference

OneDrive is the first bit of Microsoft software i disable and then remove from any and all my systems after an install which is always setup for a local account. i just wont have it on any of systems. thats my personal choice others may choose differently.

best of luck Steve ..

nuspieds said:

I think that we are way beyond that, unfortunately.

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Then the talk about it will go on and on and on...

Oh, and I'll never pay subscriptions. I will not "rent" software. I will not be a lemming, paying for the same thing over & over again. To me, that's 10 steps backwards. I stopped doing that when I gave up the 3rd party anti-virus.

nuspieds said:

I'm, like, but what about those who don't have internet access?! Can't you at least also give out a phone number?! Sheesh!

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I was on DSL only until a couple of years ago. We didn't have fiber or even broadband where I was at.

~

My-oh-my, it's amazing how 'we' take some things for granted, now don't 'we'...

nuspieds said:

But it's too important and valuable of a functionality to leave off by default.

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To you and some others is is.

To me and some others, it's not. Not having it is not important at all.

nuspieds said:

Who needs a User Manual?!"

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No, just go the nearest Apple store in the mall and a 'genius' will fix it for you. All you have to do is remember where the slider is.

And don't say that doesn't happen anymore. The Apple store at my nearest mall is still packed. I think it's the most crowded store in the whole mall, period. It was crowded 15 years ago and it's still crowded even today.

But MS gave up on that model years ago. So it's the user manuals and the tech forums and the chronic misinformation for everybody else.

nuspieds said:

Point-in-time Restore is another feature that I think warrants a video tutorial rather than just blog/release notes.

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But just take it to the Apple store! But just take it to the Apple store! It just works! It just works! The 'genius' told me so! The 'genius' told me so!

mommy! mommy! mommy!

pparks1 said:

Yeah, I've never understood why they are so adamant that they want everybody to log in with their Microsoft account rather than a local account.

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It's pretty simple. They want to track you. They see all that advertising $$$ that google and amazon get so they want some of that, too. And what better way to do that then turn Windows in one big piece of adware and collect all that information about you. Without giving you anything in return, I might add...

pparks1 said:

The point is that the file is a container. If you put 1 new file into the container, it has to upload the entire container again. It's not able to just sync the delta's of the file. So, if you veracrypt file is say 500MB in size, and you add in a 40k text file, it will need to upload the entire 500MB container again.

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So what. How long does 500MB take?

That's what backup software like Macrium is used for. Differential backups.

pparks1 said:

but rather the convenience of getting to it

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And that's the crux of the matter. Privacy vs convenience. Same old story.

And then we yell at big tech everytime there's a massive data spill. Gol, gee...

Hey I like convenience too, but convenience is like a drug and one can get addicted to it. One can take it all for granted.