Subscription software - the big problem with it that nobody is talking about

andrew129260 said:

thats fine you can still ignore the rest and address this then. And if you dont want to thats fine too. Have a good one.

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I have no intent to engage you on this or any other subject. This is just one more complaint thread..

jimbo45 said:

@pparks1

Either you must be driving a top of the line 1 million dollar plus Mayerbach, or have a zillion drunk driving tickets, or got about 19 reckless teenagers on your insurance to pay that sort of price for motor insurance.

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No sir, that's just the state of insurance in Michigan for motor vehicles.

I have a 2016 Accord, cost me about 29k when brand new, blue book around $13,000 now. I've been driving for 34 years. My last ticket was 33 years ago. 0 at fault accidents in our lifetime. Wife has a clean record, and my daughter is almost 20 and has not had a ticket either. The cost to insure that car here is about $650 for 6 months

Not quite a million dollar maybach,

The intent was not to make this a "complaint thread", rather, it was to point out that a move from "we offer the right to buy a license to use" to "we only offer a subscription to use" is kind of harsh. It is the right of every individual software company to try this subscription sales approach, and mine to pass it by ... which is what I'll be doing. If they are OK with the loss of my sale, I'm OK with passing them by and switching to something else.

Macrium Reflect is a good example ... I own licenses, but I won't be switching to some kind of subscription-only model. I'll figure something else out, and they will have lost any new or future sales, unless they return to offering the old license model.

The other big problem with the subscription sales model is that, when they offer only a subscription and take away the previously offered standard license that you own forever, and you start to stack up all the "required" subscription licenses to get something done, it quickly becomes unsustainable, perhaps for many, and certainly for me. I thought it helpful to point out this seemingly "elephant in the room" for the "everyone is jumping on the subscription model", and abandoning the old license model.

This forces me to do things like:

- open source a solution (replace the thing that is offered subscription only)
- virtualize an old solution (where, hopefully, I can use it forever)

It's more of a PSA or "heads up ... there's a possible issue with everything going to subscription-only", and in this somewhat early stage, not being pennies for each month, vs 10's to 100's of dollars each product/month/year. Hopefully, sales gains/losses will adjust things ... but heads up in case they don't adjust.

50ShadesOfDirt said:

The intent was not to make this a "complaint thread", rather, it was to point out that a move from "we offer the right to buy a license to use" to "we only offer a subscription to use" is kind of harsh.

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exactly. Calling this a complaint thread imho is just missing the point entirely. Too many things are going subscription only. It's more of saying has anyone else noticed this going on? Its just a discussion of how much stuff is going sub only. And I am saying I definitely have noticed this.

It is getting to the point with every company doing it, there might not be many options left. Everything from cars to tech to software, it's all going subscription based. I am not saying subscriptions are not worth it. Some surely are. But many of them are being forced which imho is not okay.

It honestly wouldn't surprise me that someday my grocery store becomes a forced subscription at this point. It's just starting to get a bit concerning. Music is also a very big issue as well. It is getting harder and harder to actually buy and own music, because everything wants to be streaming subscription.

This here shows some of the harm it brings:




But yes for now there are other options, and I will support software that is a one time purchase, like partition wizard, revo uninstaller, stuff like that. And I can update to the new versions when I so choose, instead of being forced to use a subscription. Hopefully we can continue to have choice.

andrew129260 said:

Too many things are going subscription only. It's more of saying has anyone else noticed this going on? Its just a discussion of how much stuff is going sub only. And I am saying I definitely have noticed this.

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I think lots of people see this. This really isn't a new trend, it's been underway for many years. Adobe switched to a subscription back in May of 2013. And Adobe has NOT lost money by going this route either, so while some people probably left and went elsewhere, enough people have stayed to earn them very solid revenues.

andrew129260 said:

But many of them are being forced which imho is not okay.

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Not much we can do about it, other than finding a new piece of software or vendor. These commercial vendors don't have an obligation to provide us with everything WE WANT. As having worked for a software vendor, I can truly understand the desire to have a consistent cash flow. In addition, for any companies which are publicly traded, their investors basically demand yearly revenues that continue to go up, up and up. It's all about the $$"s in the end.

andrew129260 said:

But yes for now there are other options, and I will support software that is a one time purchase, like partition wizard, revo uninstaller, stuff like that. And I can update to the new versions when I so choose, instead of being forced to use a subscription. Hopefully we can continue to have choice.

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Nothing wrong with that approach. I buy very little software, most is open-source and free. For those that I do buy, a few are subscription (adobe, office365, lastpass), and some have been one time purchases (Macrium, guitar amp plugins). I just look around and find the option that best fits my needs. If the value and price is right, I buy it. Otherwise, I go without or find something else.

pparks1 said:

Not much we can do about it, other than finding a new piece of software or vendor

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Thats true, I am just saying I hope new software or vendors exist that allow this. If they all go this way, it becomes quite difficult. A person can only have so many subscriptions.

pparks1 said:

And Adobe has NOT lost money by going this route either, so while some people probably left and went elsewhere, enough people have stayed to earn them very solid revenues.

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Yup and this is mainly due to them having a monopoly on the market. You didn't have a choice, you have to get the subscription.

I am glad office still has the option to purchase it outright.

While I hate the idea of paying monthly or yearly for anything, I can understand why software companies are going this route. Take Adobe Photoshop, for example. As a long-time user, I would usually update every other time a new updated version came out. They would usually ask about $250 for the next update, and if you jumped over it to wait for the next one, they were forced to probably give in, or you might not update at all. They have employees, and infrastructure to maintain, so this put a strain on the company. Meanwhile, improvements and new updates are going on all the time. I had bought the last "boxed" set of Photoshop (and the whole creative suite back when it was CS6) and used it until I got my new Win 11 computer, with my new 4K monitor. The old creative suite would not install, and crashed the computer! I was able to salvage Photoshop, and it ran, except all the tools and text were 1/4 the size they had been on the old monitor. I was somewhat able to get past that with changing the compatibility with Windows for the 4K screen, but I didn't have all the cool new tools friends of mine were talking about to work on pix. I finally broke down, and got Photoshop CC, which works way better than CS6, and allows for the 4K screen, all for $129 yearly. I didn't need, or want cloud storage, so the cheapest plan works for me, with a minimum of cloud storage. It gets regular updates and tweaks, and has even added AI for my use. I just paid for my 2nd year!
Otherwise, I don't like the subscription model, unless there is a value in it for me, where the benefits outweigh keeping the old system in place.
Adobe is basically getting the same money from me as it did with the old "buy the update" method, and I am benefitting from the constant updates and improvements to the program on an ongoing basis.

andrew129260 said:

Yup and this is mainly due to them having a monopoly on the market. You didn't have a choice, you have to get the subscription.

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For the people I know, myself included (for my son), those of us with Adobe subscriptions aren't complaining much about it. My son's Adobe Photoshop subscription is $10 a month and gives him Photoshop and Lightroom. For a small investment, he gets to work with the industry standard software, and stays on the latest releases. I probably wouldn't have been willing to fork out the price of buying a perpetual license of photoshop and I certainly wouldn't have kept him on the latest versions.

andrew129260 said:

I am glad office still has the option to purchase it outright.

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Yeah, I am glad to see MS still offering Office as a straight up purchase.

For me, it doesn't really make sense, the subscription in my opinion here is an absolute no-brainer. I have multiple desktops, multiple laptops, i have a few Mac's, and I have 4 direct family member who all use their 1TB of storage and my dad who is also on my account and gets 1TB and Office on all of his stuff. For the $69 a year I pay (I get 30% off from the $99.99 plan from MS as a work discount), it's the best choice for me.

In my personal opinion paying a subscription for anything other than security software is just a waste, you'd be better off taking your money and burning it. For most subscription software there are free options or open source software that is comparable and most times much better.

On the other side of the coin , yes I understand that software companies can charge what they want under whatever model they choose for their software but it doesn't have to border on theft.
Unless you purchase a major version change which is acceptable, most if not all updates in between major version changes are nothing but bug fixes, there is RARELY anything extra given between major updates on any software... this does not warrant what some of these software companies charge in monthly or yearly subscriptions. With that said I (you) also have the right not to purchase or pay a subscription for any software , kick it down the road, because like I said , most times there are fairer priced , free or open source replacements.

None of my software is subscription based , all my licenses are either lifetime or perpetual, I will pay for the major version upgrades and nothing else. All my other software a small percentage is free with the rest being open source. I am not going to pay to make someone disgustingly rich for a software that only receives major version updates every three to five years.

TraderGary said:

The subscriptions I have I really do like and are all well worth the price.

Microsoft 365 Family - Microsoft Office and 1TB OneDrive
Adobe Photographer Plan - Lightroom/Photoshop
Finviz Elite - Real-time market features
Amazon Prime
YouTube Premium

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Not sure Amazon prime really fits as a software related subscription.

It is an unrealistic expectation to get lots of free deliveries without paying a fee.

There are two pay models - pay on demand or pay a monthly fee.

Of course Amazon sweeten the pay on demand model by allowing free delivery for batches over £20. Back in day when it was £10 to get free delivery, I did not use prime. Once threshold moved to £20, prime became more attactive.

It all really depends on volume.

Amazon Prime is great for me as I would struggle to buy the computer things I buy in a physical store.

I also buy a lot of health related stuff in bulk but it would be too difficult to transport without a car.

As I said, there is not really a strictly free version of Amazon unless you spend over £20 in a single batch purchase which is ok for occasional buyers.

Also you can sign up for prime for a short period without any being tied in to long term contracts - you just revert to normal pay model.

A lot of subscription softwares only let you use the software if you pay of course.

Dark Knight said:

In my personal opinion paying a subscription for anything other than security software is just a waste, you'd be better off taking your money and burning it. For most subscription software there are free options or open source software that is comparable and most times much better.

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Let's talk Microsoft 365. 6 user accounts, unlimited installs of Office Professional on all of their devices (PC's, Laptops, Tablets, Phones, Mac/PC), 1TB of OneDrive space for each person. $99.99 per year. Comes out to $16.50 per person, per year. Microsoft allows you to share the subscription with friends and families.

For sake of the argument, assume you actually want to use Microsoft OneDrive and cloud storage doesn't scare you to death.

Where else you gonna find genuine Office Professional (always latest versions) with 1TB of cloud storage for $16.50 a year.

cereberus said:

Not sure Amazon prime really fits as a software related subscription.

It is an unrealistic expectation to get lots of free deliveries without paying a fee.

There are two pay models - pay on demand or pay a monthly fee.

Of course Amazon sweeten the pay on demand model by allowing free delivery for batches over £20. Back in day when it was £10 to get free delivery, I did not use prime. Once threshold moved to £20, prime became more attactive.

It all really depends on volume.

Amazon Prime is great for me as I would struggle to buy the computer things I buy in a physical store.

I also buy a lot of health related stuff in bulk but it would be too difficult to transport without a car.

As I said, there is not really a strictly free version of Amazon unless you spend over £20 in a single batch purchase which is ok for occasional buyers.

Also you can sign up for prime for a short period without any being tied in to long term contracts - you just revert to normal pay model.

A lot of subscription softwares only let you use the software if you pay of course.

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I think Amazon free delivery is now £35 for non-Prime

pparks1 said:

Let's talk Microsoft 365. 6 user accounts, unlimited installs of Office Professional on all of their devices (PC's, Laptops, Tablets, Phones, Mac/PC), 1TB of OneDrive space for each person. $99.99 per year. Comes out to $16.50 per person, per year. Microsoft allows you to share the subscription with friends and families.

For sake of the argument, assume you actually want to use Microsoft OneDrive and cloud storage doesn't scare you to death.

Where else you gonna find genuine Office Professional (always latest versions) with 1TB of cloud storage for $16.50 a year.

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I agree with you on the merits of Microsoft 365. You ask, where you can find 1TB of storage for $16.50 a year? If you need 1TB, then practically nowhere. If you don't need that much cloud space, you can get 15GB from Google Drive for free. If you create multiple Google accounts, you have more space. But in my mind, Google products can't compete with Microsoft products. Google Docs is a scaled-back word processor, for example. But some people don't need more than what Google offers. But I prefer to use OneDrive.

You can guarantee that once one company starts a subscription based software service, others will follow.

It's like supermarkets - now many are now pushing self-scan only tills or card only fuel payments? It's all good saying you'll shop somewhere else - until the 'somewhere else' is doing the same, then what?!

Once they're ALL doing it you won't get a choice. Same with software subs. They'll all want a bite of the subscription pie

jvickers said:

I agree with you on the merits of Microsoft 365. You ask, where you can find 1TB of storage for $16.50 a year? If you need 1TB, then practically nowhere. If you don't need that much cloud space, you can get 15GB from Google Drive for free.

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Yeah, that's the whole reason I like Office/Microsoft 365 so much. I want cloud storage space and I use it. This subscription is the cheapest I can find. I don't really need 1TB, but I do have 150GB of so in my account at present. My families cell phones are all setup to dump their pictures and videos to their OneDrive account. This way, if they lose their phone, or it's damaged, stolen, etc...., or they have to clear space because they are running out of storage, all of their stuff is always available to them online.

So for my money, OneDrive alone is worth the price of the whole subscription. On top of that, I also get Microsoft Office. That's just like a freebie bonus as far as I am concerned.

pparks1 said:

Yeah, that's the whole reason I like Office/Microsoft 365 so much. I want cloud storage space and I use it. This subscription is the cheapest I can find. I don't really need 1TB, but I do have 150GB of so in my account at present. My families cell phones are all setup to dump their pictures and videos to their OneDrive account. This way, if they lose their phone, or it's damaged, stolen, etc...., or they have to clear space because they are running out of storage, all of their stuff is always available to them online.

So for my money, OneDrive alone is worth the price of the whole subscription. On top of that, I also get Microsoft Office. That's just like a freebie bonus as far as I am concerned.

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I share my M365 sub with family members, we all make use of it. I don't split the cost.

cereberus said:

Not sure Amazon prime really fits as a software related subscription.

It is an unrealistic expectation to get lots of free deliveries without paying a fee.

There are two pay models - pay on demand or pay a monthly fee.

Of course Amazon sweeten the pay on demand model by allowing free delivery for batches over £20. Back in day when it was £10 to get free delivery, I did not use prime. Once threshold moved to £20, prime became more attactive.

It all really depends on volume.

Amazon Prime is great for me as I would struggle to buy the computer things I buy in a physical store.

I also buy a lot of health related stuff in bulk but it would be too difficult to transport without a car.

As I said, there is not really a strictly free version of Amazon unless you spend over £20 in a single batch purchase which is ok for occasional buyers.

Also you can sign up for prime for a short period without any being tied in to long term contracts - you just revert to normal pay model.

A lot of subscription softwares only let you use the software if you pay of course.

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Amazon here at least allow all Prime members to get FREE delivery on anything and usually faster delivery too IMO well worth the money.-- no need to spend £20 or equiv in € or Kr.lsl. That said though there's almost nothing I buy these days on Amazon that costs < €20 or so !! - perhaps a few cables , odd adapters etc but that's it. Paying for a service with a one off annual fee is "borderline" -- e.g you pay for utilities inc broadband, house and car insurance and I suppose if you have to rent your home you pay a monthly rent which is "a subscrip[tion to live there".

Actually since zillions of people say in NYC rent apartments - who actually OWNS them !!!. Unlike the UK with a load of private small landlords or some local councils who supply the bulk of properties to let one never hears of who actually OWNS those expensive NYC apartments specially in central Manhattan.

Software and things like TV / Movie / Music services / Live Sport where you have far too many suppliers diminsihing the content you want so necessitation the purchase of a whole slew of this stuff is where it gets 100% bonkers.

For Classical music you can still get High quality CD's which are easily ripped or even the SACD ultra high quality -- but you need Studio quality equipment to determie the difference between a decent CD and an SACD recording. For other music you are left subject to the whims of the various music service providers who rarely provide "Uncompressed sound" and who can remove stuff from their catalogs at short notice too.

For classical music though this service is good with a load of FREE content.





Cheers
jimbo

IMO, subscription software is great for anyone that absolutely, positively needs the latest and hopefully greatest version of the software. I don't mind paying MS for my MS 365 plan. The main reason is that I can share it with family and I get more storage space on OneDrive. I do have a few other programs that are either yearly or are renewed every so many years. My only B**ch is that I would rather have it so the renewal wasn't automatic. I don't always need the latest and greatest version of my software. As long as the version I have works, let me decide if it's worth paying for the latest version. Yes I do know that one can cancel out, but truthfully, how many people do. That's why they make the renewals automatic instead of sending you an email that it's time to renew.

I don't have any beef against subscription software, in fact I prefer it as it keeps the software up to date.

The subscription software/services I currently use are:
1. Microsoft 365 Business. Also gives all the usual apps like Excel, Word, PowerPoint etc. Also, I own two custom domain names that I use for my email, so I use Exchange Online. And I get 1TB of OneDrive Business cloud storage included. Good value for $NZ209 per annum.
2. XBOX Game Pass Subscription.
3. LastPass Password Manager.
4. Bitdefender Total Security.

I have this year cancelled several subscriptions:
1. CCleaner Professional. Couldn't justify using it any longer. And the software company are still bombarding me with spam emails wanting me back. No dice, you guys have done your dash with me.
2. Adobe Creative Cloud. Like a Rolex watch, be nice to have but far too expensive.

I do have software that was paid as a one-off payment with a lifetime license.
1. Aomei Backupper.
2. Aomei Partition Assistant.
3. Aida64.
4. 3DMark & PC Mark.
5. JRiver.

As has been already pointed out, the IP owners of software make their own choices about how they sell licenses to their software. If their business models don't suit, the marketplace will act accordingly.

I don't currently have any subscription software and if the 4-fold increase in annual cost of MR X for a single-system subscription, is an accurate example of price increases for that model, I won't be buying any, either.