Subscription software - the big problem with it that nobody is talking about

cheaterslick · Sep 30, 2024

pparks1 said:
It's time however to sort out the mess that has become the Cable TV bill. Since cutting the cord and everybody and their brother having a streaming service, i probably have more content than I did before, but I also spend more money on it now that I used to.

I predicted that years ago when it was just beginning. That's not some patting-myself-on-the-back bragging insight, ya know. That's just common sense, something that seems to be in short supply, nowadays...

You know the old saying: If it sounds too good to be true, then it probably is.

These companies are going to get their money, somehow. If not here, then there.

cheaterslick · Sep 30, 2024

BunnyJ said:
Then you shouldn't get either support, maintenance or updates.

Uh, I used to pay a big chunk of change outright for buying the software up front, so damm right I expect support, maintenance and updates.

BunnyJ said:
No one works for free and the developers need to be compensated for their work. In my case I choose to use Adobe and pay a monthly fee. There are other products out there, but I found that Adobe meets my needs the best.

Nobody said anything about getting something for free. Read his original post again. Nothing there was said about anything being "free"

BunnyJ said:
In the end you can either choose to subscribe, find a product that you can outright purchase or look for a shareware tool.

No duh. What's being said here is about paying for something over & over again in perpetuity beyond what the software was originally worth, upfront.

If you can justify any subscriptions that you have, then fine. But not everybody out there can do that. What works for you, may not work for the next guy

SlicEnDicE · Sep 30, 2024

@50ShadesOfDirt your name should be changed to 50ShadesOfGold.

I 100% agree with your post. It's becoming way too expensive and the problem is not just software but also streaming services. These days it's even quite difficult to find a DVD or BR for your favorite movie. So now we are in a situation where we have to subscribe to a ton of Streaming services in order to get to watch our favorite shows and movies.

If nothing change soon, piracy will get out of control again, because it's the only option for those who can't afford anything else.

TraderGary · Sep 30, 2024

SlicEnDicE said:
@50ShadesOfDirt your name should be changed to 50ShadesOfGold.

I 100% agree with your post. It's becoming way too expensive and the problem is not just software but also streaming services. These days it's even quite difficult to find a DVD or BR for your favorite movie. So now we are in a situation where we have to subscribe to a ton of Streaming services in order to get to watch our favorite shows and movies.

If nothing change soon, piracy will get out of control again, because it's the only option for those who can't afford anything else.

If you can't afford something, then it's ok to steal it?

jimbo45 · Sep 30, 2024

TraderGary said:
If you can't afford something, then it's ok to steal it?

That's not the point -- We might be 100% honest but it's a horrible planet with 1000's of really nasty and viscious people out there in many locations -- look at nonsense in Israel, Jordan, Yemen, Russia, Ukraine, parts of Asia, Iran etc etc. So it's going to happen even if most here on this Forum thankfully don't condone it.

That said -- it's about time though Geoblocking of service THAT YOU'VE PAID FOR should go -- if I'm visiting say the USA why shouldn't I be able to watch a Netflix show available in Europe which I've paid for !!!!. In these cases using a VPN IMO is perfectly OK even if it's "Technically illegal".

Cheers
jimbo

S0C9 · Sep 30, 2024

jimbo45 said:
That said -- it's about time though Geoblocking of service THAT YOU'VE PAID FOR should go -- if I'm visiting say the USA why shouldn't I be able to watch a Netflix show available in Europe which I've paid for !!!!. In these cases using a VPN IMO is perfectly OK even if it's "Technically illegal".

What's "illegal" about using VPN in most countries? Iran, China, Russia, etc.. I can see but.. Europe, USA?
Am I missing something?

There's plenty of well known sites that geo-block based on source country.
I use VPN to stop the "ad tracking" that persists on the interweb and choose locales with the best TTL.
That's not always a US location even tho my provider is US-based vs other top-ranked VPN sources (Proton, Nord, Tunnelbear, etc)
For example: Bolivia might be 17ms, whereas Kansas might 32ms.
Bolivia (along with other country) ASN sources are blocked by many US sites.

SlicEnDicE · Sep 30, 2024

TraderGary said:
If you can't afford something, then it's ok to steal it?

That's not what I said. Don't twist my words.

jimbo45 · Sep 30, 2024

S0C9 said:
What's "illegal" about using VPN in most countries? Iran, China, Russia, etc.. I can see but.. Europe, USA?
Am I missing something?

There's plenty of well known sites that geo-block based on source country.
I use VPN to stop the "ad tracking" that persists on the interweb and choose locales with the best TTL.
That's not always a US location even tho my provider is US-based vs other top-ranked VPN sources (Proton, Nord, Tunnelbear, etc)
For example: Bolivia might be 17ms, whereas Kansas might 32ms.
Bolivia (along with other country) ASN sources are blocked by many US sites.

@S0C9:
Nothing "Illegal" about using a VPN -- my point was saying that if you've PAID for a service such as Netflix, SKY TV, or other providers such legal live sport streams then why should you be "Geoblocked" from accessing these services when say travelling -- for instance in Rep.of Ireland (and elsewhere e.g SKY TV GERMANY) SKY TV provides English live football on Sat afternoons at 15.00 -- in England subscribers can't access these games so if you have a legal SKY TV subscription from outside England why should you be blocked from accessing content YOU'VE PAID FOR if you aren't resident in England and just visiting for work / holiday etc. That to me is a perfectly valid use of a VPN. The possible "illegal" bit is getting round the Geoblocking thing which in the days of the Internet should long since have been abandoned. If you have PAID for a service you should be entitled to use it whenever you are.

Blocking of Internet sites is another matter and that's purely the problem of the various govts concerned and their electorates / inhabitants. Geoblocking is a purely commercial thing and had nothing to do with politics.

Cheers
jimbo.

TraderGary · Sep 30, 2024

SlicEnDicE said:
That's not what I said. Don't twist my words.

When you wrote:

"If nothing change soon, piracy will get out of control again, because it's the only option for those who can't afford anything else."

I interpreted that to mean that those who can't afford software are going to pirate (steal) it. What did you actually mean then?

SlicEnDicE · Sep 30, 2024

TraderGary said:
When you wrote:

"If nothing change soon, piracy will get out of control again, because it's the only option for those who can't afford anything else."

I interpreted that to mean that those who can't afford software are going to pirate (steal) it. What did you actually mean then?

Yeah that's what I said, but I never said it's OK though...

pparks1 · Sep 30, 2024

TraderGary said:
When you wrote:

"If nothing change soon, piracy will get out of control again, because it's the only option for those who can't afford anything else."

I interpreted that to mean that those who can't afford software are going to pirate (steal) it. What did you actually mean then?

Yeah, I read it exactly as you wrote it, Gary.

The only thing I still like on the sub's versus Cable TV, is that I can get rid of pieces and parts with subs. For example, if I don't need AppleTV because I'm caught up on all the shows i watch, I can drop it for 3-6 months and wait for content to build up again. Then I can resubscribe. Since there are no cancellation fees or sign up fees, it's not a big deal.

andrew129260 · Sep 30, 2024

SlicEnDicE said:
Yeah that's what I said, but I never said it's OK though...

Piracy does tend to always increase when people cannot get things in a convenient way. It is sometimes more easy to get things the "wrong way" than it is to get them the correct way. It's getting harder and harder to own content/software vs renting it. I think that is always the tricky part. Doesn't mean it's okay, but I understand it. I wish I could buy movies and things digitally and own the file instead of it being tied to a subscription service or DRM locked.

Imagine in the future on consoles physical media is dead/no longer an option. And instead of buying games you want, they are just all bundled on a subscription and there is no option to buy a game separately. I definitely see that happening at some point. Which would be terrible.

All of this subscription stuff is just designed to be locked to an account that the company can cancel or screw you over at any time. You will not actually own anything. That's the concern.

pseymour · Sep 30, 2024

Shout out to JAM Software, for doing things correctly (in my opinion, obviously). License is perpetual, but you can pay for maintenance if you want. Automatic renewal is off by default. Bravo, JAM.

S0C9 · Sep 30, 2024

jimbo45 said:
@S0C9:
Nothing "Illegal" about using a VPN -- my point was saying that if you've PAID for a service such as Netflix, SKY TV, or other providers such legal live sport streams then why should you be "Geoblocked" from accessing these services when say travelling -- for instance in Rep.of Ireland (and elsewhere e.g SKY TV GERMANY) SKY TV provides English live football on Sat afternoons at 15.00 -- in England subscribers can't access these games so if you have a legal SKY TV subscription from outside England why should you be blocked from accessing content YOU'VE PAID FOR if you aren't resident in England and just visiting for work / holiday etc. That to me is a perfectly valid use of a VPN. The possible "illegal" bit is getting round the Geoblocking thing which in the days of the Internet should long since have been abandoned. If you have PAID for a service you should be entitled to use it whenever you are.

Blocking of Internet sites is another matter and that's purely the problem of the various govts concerned and their electorates / inhabitants. Geoblocking is a purely commercial thing and had nothing to do with politics.

Cheers
jimbo.

I "guess" I didn't interpret your comment correctly..
But I agree 100% with the above.
If you've paid for a service, it should not matter where you are as long as you can validate yourself to that service.
I also "guess" geo-blocking has different meanings - US vs Brit versions?

MisterEd · Sep 30, 2024

pparks1 said:
Let's take Microsoft Office for example. Way back in the day, a single PC use copy of Microsoft Office professional was about $450. And let's say you needed it on a desktop and on a laptop. To not violate the license, and assuming you needed the full set of apps that professional offered (versus say home and student or home and business), you would have had to pay $450 x 2, or $900 for your 2 copies of Microsoft Office Professional. (And yes, I know there are shady websites that sell super cheap copies of Office, but none of them are legitimately selling these licenses following the licensing agreements with Microsoft....but most people are willing to give it a shot and look the other way fully knowing that it's not quite legit, etc).

A small correction... Microsoft Office used to allow 2 installations per license. That is, one on your desktop and one on your laptop. I did that with Office 2007 Professional and Office 2010 Professional. Office 2010 may have been the last version they allowed that. Now you must buy one license for each computer.

Here are excerpts from the Microsoft Office 2010 EULA

HOME AND STUDENT SOFTWARE. For software marked “Home and Student” edition, you may install one copy of the software on up to three licensed devices in your household for use by people for whom that is their primary residence. The software may not be used for commercial, non-profit, or revenue-generating activities.

INSTALLATION AND USE RIGHTS.
a. One Copy per Device. You may install one copy of the software on one device. That device is the “licensed device.”
b. Licensed Device. You may only use one copy of the software on the licensed device at a time.
c. Portable Device. You may install another copy of the software on a portable device for use by the single primary user of the licensed device.

About the super cheap Office licenses (and Windows licenses)... A number for web sites around the world have been selling them for years. Since they are openly doing this on the Internet it is curious that Microsoft has done nothing to stop them. All it would take is for Microsoft to shut down a few of them for the rest to quickly fold. Until that happens nobody is going to stop buying these bargain licenses.

BTW, I am only talking about individuals buying these cheap licenses. Most businesses fearing the repercussions of getting unwanted scrutiny from Microsoft lawyers tend to only buy software from official Microsoft distributors.

Note I have read of a few cases where somebody is sold a key that "wouldn't work". "Legitimate" sellers will simply send a new key for free. Those that don't do this probably don't stay in business very long after the word gets out about them.

MisterEd · Sep 30, 2024

Susbscriptions:

Roboform Premium
Malwarebytes Premium
Amazon Prime + AD FREE (1)

Perpetual:

Microsoft Office Professional Plus 2019
Microsoft Office Professional Plus 2021
Adobe Photoshop Elements 2024
Acronis True Image 2025 - Perpetual (2)

(1) $139/year for Amazon Prime. AD FREE is $2.99/month and is billed separately every month.
(2) Acronis True Image is currently only offered as a subscription to new customers. However, early this year they offered a one-time offer for old perpetual licenses to be upgraded to a special perpetual version of Acronis True Image 2025.

S0C9 · Sep 30, 2024

MisterEd said:
About the super cheap Office licenses (and Windows licenses)... A number for web sites around the world have been selling them for years. Since they are openly doing this on the Internet it is curious that Microsoft has done nothing to stop them. All it would take is for Microsoft to shut down a few of them for the rest to quickly fold. Until that happens nobody is going to stop buying these bargain licenses.

My understanding is that these "sites" are located in countries that have no reciprocal US Copyright laws and MS cannot do anything [legally] about it. Hence, status quo.

pseymour · Sep 30, 2024

S0C9 said:
My understanding is that these "sites" are located in countries that have no reciprocal US Copyright laws and MS cannot do anything [legally] about it. Hence, status quo.

Except deactivate the keys.

Dannydet · Sep 30, 2024

I use an extra Windows 11 workstation that I use for my Graphic design business.
Completely offline, no user account, and running all of my needed softwares...

jimbo45 · Oct 1, 2024

andrew129260 said:
Piracy does tend to always increase when people cannot get things in a convenient way. It is sometimes more easy to get things the "wrong way" than it is to get them the correct way. It's getting harder and harder to own content/software vs renting it. I think that is always the tricky part. Doesn't mean it's okay, but I understand it. I wish I could buy movies and things digitally and own the file instead of it being tied to a subscription service or DRM locked.

Imagine in the future on consoles physical media is dead/no longer an option. And instead of buying games you want, they are just all bundled on a subscription and there is no option to buy a game separately. I definitely see that happening at some point. Which would be terrible.

All of this subscription stuff is just designed to be locked to an account that the company can cancel or screw you over at any time. You will not actually own anything. That's the concern.

Apparently that very well known site that's been around for donkeys years inspite of innumerable attempts to have it shut down has by all reckoning increased its traffic 4 fold in the last few months due to the proliferation and sheer expense of obtaining content.

Not right I know but pretty obvious when you think of it. While content IS expensive to produce more realistic pricing for consumers, sharing of production facilities, consolidation into fewer services and less mega amounts of money paid to CEO's etc would help -- and certainly stopping geoblocking of content -- many shows are limited to say USA or Europe - bonkers especially as people travel around much more now.

I don't mind some Internet sites being blocked -- especially hard porn where kids are involved -- I'm sure most and I sincerely hope ALL here don't mind that either but the whole restriction of content for a legal service YOU HAVE PAID FOR should be available to you any time and any place you want to access it.

Cheers
jimbo

Subscription software - the big problem with it that nobody is talking about

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