Suggestions for a dependable storage drive

cheaterslick said:

Ah well that explains it.



I wouldn't want your electric bills. . .

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It's not that bad.. i dont run everything 24/7... i have around 180-190kWh / month (230V) on everything computer related.

Marie SWE said:

I'm not a normal computer user.
Edit: My first server i had back in 1998 had 19HDD's. i remembered wrong.. My first PC that acted as a server in 98 had 10 drives.. three IDE and 7 Scsi.. my second server and my first real server in 2000 had 19 disks, Three pools 5+7+7 all Scsi... . now i have a server storage of 24HDD's.. Then i can start counting all computers i have both in retro collection and those i use in almost daily usage... So its not so strange of have had over 300+ disks since the late 80's.

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Only one of my computers with external drives (SB+). "T" drive was turned off as I only use it when I need it (4TB of mostly YouTube stuff) "x" and "Y" are reserved for open ports. ie. USB thumb drives etc. It's a full house. I have other PCs that only have 8 and 16 drives. My PC in my bedroom only has 3 hard drives. The desktop I built with my 15 year old (she was 11 at the time) has 16 drives because she showed an interest in RAID and wanted to use Linux.

Yes. I'm not a "normie" either. I learned long ago the only way to secure valuable data is REDUNDANCY.

Marie SWE said:

Perhaps this forum need a computer retro thread.

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Just recently suggested a "Discussion" thread. Probably best to have complete singular category: Discussions.
I'm quite sure given the time it would grow into quite the tree.This forum is a gold mine of information.

Scannerman said:

Yes. I'm not a "normie" either. I learned long ago the only way to secure valuable data is REDUNDANCY.

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Its no fun to be a normie.
but... i can admit a normie often has less headache when the computers have a bad day. *LOL*

I cant show a full alphabet like you, as i use Linux as primary, so its all about mount points (you know this as you have linux yourself,..but the rest in here probibly dont know how linux works)
Then i have different network drives depending on the computer I'm at.. as no computer of mine has access to everything. (for security reasons)
I totally agree on Redundancy..... and also several duplicates of important files protect against bit-rot

Scannerman said:

Just recently suggested a "Discussion" thread. Probably best to have complete singular category: Discussions.
I'm quite sure given the time it would grow into quite the tree.This forum is a gold mine of information.

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Open a Retro computer discussion thread and I'm game.
But VIP section and Chillout room might not be the best place as VIP not all has access.. and Chillout room dont get listed in New posts
Edit.. question asked to admin

Marie SWE said:

HDD is way superior on long term cold storage then SSD's.. So if people plan on putting a disk on a shelf for years and years.. go HDD.
and this is a topic in it self thogh.

I have had 3 or 4 HDD died on me... but i have also had over 300+ HDD's so its low percentage... I have had 1 SSD failing on me and i have only had 8 SSD's so that is higher percentage.

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The thing about having a family of 5 (all into PCs) and doing computer repair for people in a small town is that there is no shortage of experience to be had. TBH I have no clue anymore how many PCs I've built. Even less of an idea of how many I have repaired. Over 300 HDDs sounds about an conservative figure for the home front here. My basement is swimming in hard drives. I've personally owned over 100 SSDs easily. The only reason just under 10% of them have failed is because I work them hard. As for NVMe, I miss the Intel Optane brand. Samsung seems to make pretty durable NVMe and so far I haven't had any TEAM GROUP NVMe or SSDs fail on me. Kingston and Silicon Power might be worth staying away from. Have had a few of these fail on me. Had some other SSD brands fail as well that are not worth mentioning because they're not around anymore. My first SSD was from OCZ and I worked the crap out of that storage, but it never outlived warranty when it bricked. I could not get replacement. That aside, I would have more silicon storage failures than HDD failures if it were not for Western Digital Mechanical hard drives — more specifically SMR drives.

I know this forum has a lot of WD fans. My personal experience with them has not been that positive over the decades and I boiled it down to SMR drives. There is a reason why WD BLUE drives are relatively cheap. I also remember the days when WD made reliable and durable hard drives. Generally these were the Enterprise variety: Velociraptors. Amazing drives. I have some still working after 20 years. Caviar Blacks. (The old ones.) WD doesn't make these anymore. I have a WD Caviar Black (1TB) sitting in my toaster right now that is over 15 years old and exhibits no click of death, no issues at all. No clue why it works so well.

All I know is WD doesn't make HDDs this reliable anymore. The good ole days are gone. The thing about silicon is that once those cells are done, they're done. No more writing left. They're limited. More expensive brands tend to compensite for this with extra "overhead" for storage when the cells can no longer be written. I used to be very excited about SSDs because "look Ma, no moving parts!" That's fine until it amounts to no moving data. So, in this regard I would venture that HDD still rules.

I'm a bit sad to see that WD bought out HGST because those helium filled drives lasted forever. Now that WD owns them I don't expect the quality of those drives to stay the same. I'll just run my HGST array until it croaks. My experience with Seagate is that they're fine provided you stay away from SMR and mainly use Enterprise drives. Avoid the thin 3.5" drives. Toshiba makes "performance" drives that I've been testing and so far, so good. They are relatively affordable or, at least they were at one time. Haven't checked the prices on them recently. X300's are a bit more pricey than the N300's but the N300's are built specifically for NAS units. I have three and they're doing well. I have one X300 and it seems to function equally as well. Seagate Iron Wolf and EXOS are also known for durability. Once again, I recommend staying away from SMR.

I hope this helps.

badrobot said:

If you say so.
I don't know why you are so interested in arguing with me instead of helping the OP. I have what you have. I am not a 9 yr old.
View attachment 176436

I've been recovering data from dying HDDs for the past decade with my favorite tool MiniTool Power Data Recovery software

View attachment 176437

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Too late if the HDD is already dead !!!!

@gunrunnerjohn

If you use ANY HDD it will eventually fail - so the OP's Q ( I assume) !! was what's the best HDD for backup.

There's no reason way a mirrored RAID external enclosure can't be used -- presumably this only has to be online when data is being backed up or retrieved. The enclosures are quite cheap and can fit 2 or 4 disks - depending on backup requirements choose between them -- 2 disks is usually sufficient and the most economical way of doing it safely.

I have assumed the OP isn't discussing running systems with disks 100% online - but for critical files / work related stuff that needs to be continuously saved / updated - a reliable Cloud server is fine. Even Microsoft offers a stand alone decent amount at €1.70 - €2.50 per month or equiv where you are - no need to have Office/365 etc (but if you do you get a load free).

Cheers
jimbo

Stuff happens. Being unable to verify a MS account is not uncommon. You'll need an account to opt out for a cloud server, that is someone else's cloud server. You'll be limited for space. I qualify for terabytes of server space on MS One Drive and I won't bother. Better for me to have my own data on my own "cloud" in triplicate. How safe is your data on someone else's computer? If it's lost what will they do? A: Nothing.

Already Microsoft is trying to suggest that having your own server is piracy. (Something as simple as a Mine Craft server.) That's why they want you to give them your data — ALL of it. But of course the choice is yours. That is until it becomes too impractical and the hardware too expensive to run your own. Oh, yes. They're working on it!

gunrunnerjohn said:

You seem to be pretty interested in arguing with me as well. Seems a lot like the pot calling the kettle black. Maybe we can just agree to disagree.

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Congrats! You made it to my ignore list!

badrobot said:

Congrats! You made it to my ignore list!

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I'm crushed.

Marie SWE said:

Then i have different network drives depending on the computer I'm at.. as no computer of mine has access to everything. (for security reasons)

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I'm guessing then that you are also a fan of air gapping. Yup. Corporate really doesn't want the plebs to know that they can be more secure independently owning their own data instead putting it up on someone else's cloud. For the individualist decentralization is almost always the wiser course.

Scannerman said:

I'm guessing then that you are also a fan of air gapping. Yup. Corporate really doesn't want the plebs to know that they can be more secure independently owning their own data instead putting it up on someone else's cloud. For the individualist decentralization is almost always the wiser course.

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Yes i have two air gapped network.
First i have my retro computer network.. that is isolated as it is not to smart to have windows 3.11 up to windows XP exposed to internet. *LOL*
Then i have two work computers with a tiny NAS'ish computer where i keep all "for your eyes only" documents.. that is all encrypted, not only when its off, but all the time until i need something for a few minutes, then i connect to the container and then disconnect directly when I'm done.. or if i just take a coffee break........ If i need to connect to internet with one of those computers for installs/update or similar, i need to actually walk over to the switch rack and move that computer Ethernet cable from the little switch to the main switch... or i use a USB-disk to transfer data.

Marie SWE said:

Yes i have two air gapped network.
First i have my retro computer network.. that is isolated as it is not to smart to have windows 3.11 up to windows XP exposed to internet. *LOL*
Then i have two work computers with a tiny NAS'ish computer where i keep all "for your eyes only" documents.. that is all encrypted, not only when its off, but all the time until i need something for a few minutes, then i connect to the container and then disconnect directly when I'm done.. or if i just take a coffee break........ If i need to connect to internet with one of those computers for installs/update or similar, i need to actually walk over to the switch rack and move that computer Ethernet cable from the little switch to the main switch... or i use a USB-disk to transfer data.

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Ha! And here I thought I was the dinosaur! To be honest, what clued me in was when you mentioned diodes. I have not used this technique before but I've heard that there is a way to physically air gap using diodes. That way you don't even have to bother connecting and disconnecting lines. Alas, I do things the old fashioned way also. Such gruelling and straining labour! Almost as bad as walking across the room to change television channels! (Yes, I remember those days.) I no longer own a television anymore so I guess I'll just have to limit myself to physically air gapping PCs. Yeah, I know, there are switches for this sort of thing but I can use the exercise. I love your term "NAS'ish". May I borrow it?

Scannerman said:

I love your term "NAS'ish". May I borrow it?

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*lol* yeah, feel free to use it.. its open source under GPLv3 *LOL*

I can airgap it with just configure my main switch its a My router is a Cisco and my switches is Cisco L2 and L3 switch so it has a lot of nerdish function..... But the "pull the cable" version is unhackable unless they have physical access... and if they have physical access, i have bigger problems. *LOL*

The dinosaur tech i have is just for fun, to try to keep my computer spark going.. i really started to hate computers a few years back.. so it i hadn't have my old retro stuff i would probibly end up with one laptop and a slow cable modem or something. *lol*
Also the old saying.. If it ain't broke, dont fix it.

I remember those old TV's.. I still have a VCR so i can have nostalgia weekend with old VHS movies from the 80's with the sound of the tape going in and the bad picture. *LOL*
The old tech is so simple and fun.. modern tech is good and i use it.. but it's not fun.