Solved Switch to Linux

cereberus said:

Linux is only 5% of domestic consumer user base - that answers ops original question of whether one should switch i.e. for vast majority - No.

End of story.

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The original question was not whether they should but WHY some people DO switch.

Because they think Linux is Panacea, the solution to all their PC problems. Guess what, it isn't.

@jimbo45 (not gonna quote your whole message as it's rather lengthy)

A pal of mine uses Linux as their daily driver. They use KVM extensively. And you're absolutely right, KVM is very good. They only use Windows virtually and only for their application and game programming/compile tests. They've redirected a lot of hardware to this VM, and everything Windows runs very smoothly. Can not tell a difference between the VM and a real hardware system unless peeking into device manager.

spapakons said:

Installing Ubuntu is not difficult

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Neither is Arch (BTW ), even if everything is compiled from source during install. It used to be quite involved, but not anymore. And their documentation is top notch.

Again it depends what you do with your computer. Many of us don't use them only for office work and browsing the internet. So Linux is not for us.

If you need another familiar OS, forget Linux, install Android, see here:


Makes an old PC look like supercomputer compared to an average smartphone.

spapakons said:

Many of us don't use them only for office work and browsing the internet.

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You can do much much more than that in Linux. You're being ridiculous now.

Yes, you can but not everything you can on Windows and not with the same ease and choices of software. As said before just make a list with what you do with your computer and see if you can do the same in Linux before installing. Also compare how easy you do them in Windows and how you do them in Linux. I bet there are many differences.

Neither can you do everything on Windows, that you can do on Linux. Same applies for MacOS. They're all a bit different and all has different software companies support. All of them also have their pros and cons.

People have been calling me out for running most my tasks on a mobile phone. "You can't do this and you can't do that...they are so weak and working on a tiny screen is cumbersome". I never said to them that I only work on the small screen using touch KB. My phone is actually much more powerful than my old laptop, which is not a slouch either.

spapakons said:

Yes, you can but not everything you can on Windows and not with the same ease and choices of software.

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If you don't like Linux - Fine - But some of your statements are just plain bonkers - and its 100% obvious you haven't tried a lot of things.

You are getting a bit stupid on this one now.

And there's 100% no reason why you have to use X11 for a video server - Wayland works quite well on kernel 6.11.X plus any sensible graphics card has a decent Linux driver too -- Windows has its problems with drivers - often more so than Linux --remember the Intel Nvme stuff, and some brand new GPU's still don't work properly at full spec.

Here's another test minipc running with Wayland and the same W11 VM as on the machine I posted earlier in this thread on a slightly lower powered CPU and lower 'spec machine -- still very OK. This one has SSD instead of NVMe as it's internal Disk but still 100% OK for running a Win 11 Pro VM. Two old HDD spinners are attached as well via external 2 bay HDD enclosure ->USB3.1





I think I've said enough on this thread -- Windows works and so does Linux -- and provided both desktops are set up correctly for the appropriate users with what they want to run and how they want to run it then there's no reason why people shouldn't be comfortable with either OS. And as for Android -- that's only another specialized version of Linux modded by Samsung / Google .

The fact that over 85% of current desktops use Windows is just historical - businesses have had it for ages etc. A lot of typical domestic users now could be quite happy with just a Chromebook since most of their work is usually just browser based.


Cheers
jimbo

I absolutely 100% agree with the above statements from Jimbo.

SlicEnDicE said:

I absolutely 100% agree with the above statements from Jimbo.

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Me too.

I don't need to be saved from trying something new. It's the way we learn and by looking at other systems available it helps us to see what is and is not available elsewhere.

Also, complete novices aren't saying, I've had it, I'm moving to Linux. It's tech enthusiasts and those who have been around a while. The average joe probably doesn't even know their computer could run another OS.

We've beet a dead horse to death again I think.

sudo /opt/repetitive/kill_horse -forcedeath

The problem is that average Joe depends on us to guide him and reading inaccurate comments such as "move to Linux, it is faster" he thinks that he will be as easy as using Windows and that by some magic his old computer will be rocket fast. Neither is true, so better investigate before adopting.

SlicEnDicE said:

Amazing! Some Linux users has been doing this sort of stuff for ages. Even on some old potatos. Some systems are so heavily customized that one can't even tell wether they use Linux or some other OS from year 3065. Beautiful!

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That was always a big Pro for Linux - while covered by over 100 distributions, over a dozen Desktop Environments and the largest Open Source community (all this projects are free - same goes for theming). Lowest possible performance impact (since every DE is official and integrated by the devs who released a given distribution) and a clean experience too - since you don't have to crack/patch any UI file to be able to apply a given team (nor can it brake while updating the OS - for same reason).

With older less powerful CPUs - theming Windows to that extent with 3rd Party tools (like StarDock's tools or Rainmeter) - used to be unpractical: the performance impact was so high - that you either spent time admiring the flashy UI or you exit said tools to be able to use the system properly. Not to mention - dozen of other passion products - which end-up being dropped by the devs (quite troublesome to sustain/matain - while constantly sabotaged by Microsoft devs with upcoming updates). Rainmeter is among the few OpenSource projects - that's still sustained to this day (as a Windows alternative for Conky) - tho the resource usage impact is still quite high (less noticeable on modern system - until you open TaskManager). StarDock is doing better - since it sells a commercial products - but once in awhile their tools get broken too by Windows updates (happened this year as well).

jimbo45 said:

The fact that over 85% of current desktops use Windows is just historical - businesses have had it for ages etc. A lot of typical domestic users now could be quite happy with just a Chromebook since most of their work is usually just browser based.

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71.47%, tho...


...as can be seen above, the majority are still Windows 10 Users. Win 10 lost 8% this year and Win 11 gained 8%. Microsoft tried really heard to compel the Win 10 users to switch to Win 11 - but the majority wouldn't budge. This year tried even harder with constant reminders of Win 10 EOL approaching next year. But still not much luck. That 8% increase - accounts mostly from new systems/laptops sold this year with Win 11 preinstalled. And that's just it - similar to Apple's Ecosystem even Microsoft's ecosystem is heavily monopolized (by contracts with OEMs, contracts with all the major businesses). As could be seen with the last CrowdStrike fiasco - even airports and hospitals had system running Windows (which personally i find baffling - but hey, that goes to prove that Microsoft has a really sold marketing/sells team... that's selling sand in the desert - type of achievement). Linux, despite of having so many distributions - their number of contracts they could manage - is obviously far smaller - while taking into account the fear of the unknown (of something different). Same reason - why so many people still prefer Windows 10 - even while using bleeding edge systems, tho - the majority simply got used to it - while being the preinstalled OS which came with their machine. I'm also aware (both from reall life but also the online comunities) - of enough people who tried Win 11 and switched back - hating Win 11 ever since. Many claiming it's cause of performance issues - but pulling their tongue - apparently, the Win 11 GUI is what irk them the most. Quite ironic, since it's so easy to change (to make it look like Win 10) - but that too is "a diffrent step (a change they have to make - manually)". Maybe for the average homse user - it's also a matter of skill - and yet - Win 10 comunities are still active and thriving, as can be seen - even with the elevenforum's older brother:



Ten Forums - Windows 10 Help and Support Forum

If even switching from W10 to W11 involves so much fear/disconfort - for so many, not really that surprising why even less would switch to something new. Unless compelled to do so. As it's the case with the mobile world:



Techincly, that's 71% "Linux Users" since Android is a Linux-based mobile OS.

If they don't like the minor differences from Windows 10 to 11, imagine how much they will be disappointed and struggle from Windows to Linux. This is only the user experience factor. Now take into account the millions vs tens of thousands of applications and games choice and the smaller hardware compatibility. They try to switch to Linux because they don't like Windows 11 or because their computer is unsupported and don't know they can bypass compatibility check. A large number of them regret their choice. As said Linux is not for the average Joe, only enthusiasts, ITs, Programmers and server operators. It has a long way to go before it can fully replace Windows on the average PC. Otherwise it would have become viral and would already have a large user base. Again we are talking about a PC here, not servers or workstations.

spapakons said:

If they don't like the minor differences from Windows 10 to 11, imagine how much they will be disappointed and struggle from Windows to Linux. This is only the user experience factor. Now take into account the millions vs tens of thousands of applications and games choice and the smaller hardware compatibility. They try to switch to Linux because they don't like Windows 11 or because their computer is unsupported and don't know they can bypass compatibility check. A large number of them regret their choice. As said Linux is not for the average Joe, only enthusiasts, ITs, Programmers and server operators. It has a long way to go before it can fully replace Windows on the average PC. Otherwise it would have become viral and would already have a large user base. Again we are talking about a PC here, not servers or workstations.

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On the flip side, maybe they have compatible hardware, basic app needs and find Linux not terrible. That would blow your mind.

Not everyone may be comfortable bypassing the compatibility checks. They may not know how or they may fear that a feature may someday come out that requires what they don't have.

Or maybe they got a used computer, that came with no OS and they just want to try out Linux because they have nothing to lose other than time and a learning experience.

Vast majority of Linux users wouldn't tell an average joe to have a go at Linux. I'm a seasoned pro, with 25 years experience and I've passed exams like the Red Hat Certified Engineer exam. I wouldn't recommend or suggest an average joe switch unless they understand what they are getting into. I think you would find that many other Linix people would feel the same. Trust me, I don't want to be everybody's tech support for Linux.

You are the exception. Many Linux fans try to persuade others to switch and they even think we are stupid not having done that already. I Linux could really replace Windows for the majority of PC owners, it would have done already all these years since 1991. There is a reason why it still has a small user base in PCs. Yes, there are many of you that use it every day and you feel comfortable with it, but let's face it you are the minority, not the rule and I bet you too had many difficulties at first before you got some expertise. That's the point, a user that struggles with Windows will find it much more difficult to use Linux. So switching to Linux is not something they must do without carefully considering what this means and all the consequences of this change.

I grew up with MS-DOS and then Windows. I am somewhat happy with Windows except with it being a somewhat blotted OS that tries to be all thing to all people. If Microsoft was not abandoning support of my old 2009 laptop I would probably never try Linux Mint. I first tried it on a USB stick and I found it supported all my laptop features and add-ons. I then installed it. Furthermore, I feel many people are like me - afraid to try something different. Also, I have three computers that are on Windows 11 and I feel they require more maintenance that Linux.

Again, yes you go to Software Update and update Linux until something goes wrong and you need to reinstall a component. For this you need the Terminal. Also relying on repositories only to install and update software is very limiting. It is like using the infamous Window 10/11 Home S that you cannot install anything outside Windows Store. Even worse, Windows 11 Home S is at least a lot easier to use than Linux.

In the Linux Mint software manager you can uninstall applications. You only need the terminal to uninstall software that you installed by downloading it.