Solved Switch to Linux

pparks1 said:

We are not a Windows cult. I use windows, Linux and Mac and comment about all 3 on this forum. They all have pros, cons and fans/haters.

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I hear ya!
I'm just foolin around! De-railing threads and such..., and I still can't get banned! They just won't let me go!

pparks1 said:

We are not a Windows cult. I use windows, Linux and Mac and comment about all 3 on this forum. They all have pros, cons and fans/haters.

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Since I've made a few bucks over the years working on computers starting with MS-DOS 5 and Windows 3.1 I tend to use what I've learned works in fixing Windows problems, includes a couple things programs on Linux can fix without having Windows running. It's a lot like a mechanic using box-end wrenches versus Crescent wrenches versus socket wrenches.

spapakons said:

Why install a TPM 2.0 emulator? Just bypass compatibility check and you are good to go.

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Yeah I know all that but that is copping out of my learning desires.

My point is adding a tpm 2 emulator was supposed to be easy but was not.

I am self taught in all I have learnt in computing - never once did a degree or anything.

Knowledge does not come by osmosis - you have to persevere at it.

I ALWAYS find with Linux, the time and effort to learn more advanced aspects is a much higher burden than I am really prepared to undertake.

When will Linux experts recognise the help resources do not engender people to self learn?

Edwin said:

I hear ya!
I'm just foolin around! De-railing threads and such..., and I still can't get banned! They just won't let me go!

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Somebody has to hold the accolade of Court Jester .

cereberus said:

My point is adding a tpm 2 emulator was supposed to be easy but was not.

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It is very possible that you installed an older version/stack...

The tools I installed had everything baked in by default.

Just let everyone use whatever they want. But avoid recommending Linux as a replacement for Windows in older computers. This is for advanced users only, not all Windows users. And, yes, a newbie cannot tell what OS he is using but once he is accustomed to one OS (see Windows) it is not always straightforward to switch to another (see Linux) no matter how easy it is or how good you have prepared it for them. They will eventually do something and don't know how to proceed.

SlicEnDicE said:

It is very possible that you installed an older version/stack...

The tools I installed had everything baked in by default.

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I rest my case.

I don't consider myself neither a Windows nor Linux advanced user. I can use whichever just fine.

You can go really asvanced in any OS, even on Windows.

spapakons said:

Just let everyone use whatever they want. But avoid recommending Linux as a replacement for Windows in older computers. This is for advanced users only, not all Windows users. And, yes, a newbie cannot tell what OS he is using but once he is accustomed to one OS (see Windows) it is not always straightforward to switch to another (see Linux) no matter how easy it is or how good you have prepared it for them. They will eventually do something and don't know how to proceed.

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Yeah, because the average joe user wants to use registry hacks and command line switches, and build their USB keys with rufus, etc to use windows on their old hardware. We are not approaching advanced user status.

I would most likely tell somebody with an old computer to just buy a new computer. I don't want their tech support questions regardless of what OS they are running. I'll let Dell or HP deal with them.

SlicEnDicE said:

I don't consider myself neither a Windows nor Linux advanced user. I can use whichever just fine.

You can go really asvanced in any OS, even on Windows.

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As I keep saying, it is all about the level of effort you need to invest to get to the next level!

There is absolutely no doubt whatsoever, the help resources on Linux are nowhere near as user friendly and easily found as on Windows.

I liken this to learning French and Danish.

There are hundreds of websites that tell/train you to learn French. There are nowhere near as many in Danish.

Scandinavian languages are similar but not identical. This is a bit like Linux - distros may similar but not identical.

PS you need to be Marvin the Paranoid Android to understand the insane Danish Counting Method. When I was 57 that literally translated from Danish as "7 and half 3" i.e. (7 + (3-0.5)*20) (half before number means 0.5 is subtracted, Danish numbering is based on 20 not 10 but nobody says the 20 anymore. In the other Scandinavian languages 50 would be something like Femti (5 tens which is basically logically the same as Fifty).

I of course exclude Finnish as that is totally different - parhaps that is equivalent to Macos.

pparks1 said:

Yeah, because the average joe user wants to use registry hacks and command line switches, and build their USB keys with rufus, etc to use windows on their old hardware. We are not approaching advanced user status.

I would most likely tell somebody with an old computer to just buy a new computer. I don't want their tech support questions regardless of what OS they are running. I'll let Dell or HP deal with them.

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Instead of installing Linux to their computers and have too much support to do later, I prefer bypassing compatibility check to install Windows 11 with which are familiar and have much less questions. Questions I can answer in seconds or minutes, compared to Linux where I will have to do some research to help them and waste more than half an hour each time of my limited free time. No thanks. I advice them to stay clear of Linux and have my free time stay free.

cereberus said:

As I keep saying, it is all about the level of effort you need to invest to get to the next level!

There is absolutely no doubt whatsoever, the help resources on Linux are nowhere near as user friendly and easily found as on Windows.

I liken this to learning French and Danish.

There are hundreds of websites that tell/train you to learn French. There are nowhere near as many in Danish.

Scandinavian languages are similar but not identical. This is a bit like Linux - distros may similar but not identical.

PS you need to be Marvin the Paranoid Android to understand the insane Danish Counting Method. When I was 57 that literally translated from Danish as "7 and half 3" i.e. (7 + (3-0.5)*20) (half before number means 0.5 is subtracted, Danish numbering is based on 20 not 10 but nobody says the 20 anymore. In the other Scandinavian languages 50 would be something like Femti (5 tens which is basically logically the same as Fifty).

I of course exclude Finnish as that is totally different - parhaps that is equivalent to Macos.

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More like an American learning the British version of English and adapting to its variations:


Tho, can't say the same about accents - Yorkshire Dialect for example - could be the equivalent of a Windows user learning Arch (which indeed - is actually for advanced users).


If you drop an American in a french town (where they don't speak English at all) - he would be completely lost - as if on another planet. Tho, if you drop a Windows user on Linux Mint:

(and not a single terminal command was used:)

I learned about Linux distributions - from google (don't have any qualification whatsoever - and to this day i still use google for stuff i forgot or if there's something i don't know - and always found the info if available), and yet - while part of a team hired by a charitable organization to install Linux Ubuntu on hundreds of systems - was also tasked with support and teaching the basics to people from different age groups - but also people with special needs (down syndrome - for example). And yet, was not that different - than teaching the Windows basics. Even the kids with down syndrome were receptive (more than others - might i add). The only exception were the people who didn't know how to read/write or simply didn't like computers.

In similar context - i learned English from watching TV while my natal tongue is Romanian (quite different from English - to say the least). And yet, at school was actually thought french for 6 years and i barely know some verbs - even tho - French and Romanian are both romance languages (quite similar in some ways). It's hard to learn stuff we dislike (for whatever reason).

cereberus said:

Yeah I know all that but that is copping out of my learning desires.

My point is adding a tpm 2 emulator was supposed to be easy but was not.

I am self taught in all I have learnt in computing - never once did a degree or anything.

Knowledge does not come by osmosis - you have to persevere at it.

I ALWAYS find with Linux, the time and effort to learn more advanced aspects is a much higher burden than I am really prepared to undertake.

When will Linux experts recognise the help resources do not engender people to self learn?

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Didn't one of your famous bards say "A little learning is a dangerous thing".
Cheers
jimbo

Just think, if one cannot do something simple to others in Windows, something done with a few clicks and gets frustrated, imagine trying to do something simple in Linux in the Terminal. It is even more annoying if you know the same thing in Windows is just clicking the mouse. Why on Linux has to be so different? Why would you need the Terminal for easy tasks? There should be a GUI alternative method. Even more annoying is that there is a GUI utility for that but not installed by default, you have to add it with the Terminal! Jesus! One example that comes to mind is changing the default boot entry to Windows if you dual boot with Ubuntu. There is a GUI utility but you must install it first! It should be bundled with the OS.

spapakons said:

Just think, if one cannot do something simple to others in Windows, something done with a few clicks and gets frustrated, imagine trying to do something simple in Linux in the Terminal. It is even more annoying if you know the same thing in Windows is just clicking the mouse. Why on Linux has to be so different? Why would you need the Terminal for easy tasks? There should be a GUI alternative method. Even more annoying is that there is a GUI utility for that but not installed by default, you have to add it with the Terminal! Jesus! One example that comes to mind is changing the default boot entry to Windows if you dual boot with Ubuntu. There is a GUI utility but you must install it first! It should be bundled with the OS.

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just in a terminal sudo nautilus and go to etc/default/grub.conf
change the boot order there.

then in the terminal sudo update grub.
job done ..

best of luck, Steve ..

Just think, if one cannot do something simple - as registry hacks and command line switches, and build their USB keys with rufus, etc - to use Windows on their old hardware... then point and click guides while typing y (for yes) and Enter for a heavily simplified Linux Distro like Ubuntu - is to advanced....

XxXxX said:

just in a terminal sudo nautilus and go to etc/default/grub.conf
change the boot order there.

then in the terminal sudo update grub.
job done ..

best of luck, Steve ..

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Yeah, seriously I do so much at the terminal and I don't mind one bit. Of course, 99.5% of the Linux machines I run haven't even had a gui installed. For the most part totally unnecessary.

Ding Ding - end of round 11
Linux users are on the rope.

Can Windows users give a knockout blow in the final 11th round or will we get a split decision, or even an unlikely KO from the Linux corner?

cereberus said:

Can Windows users give a knockout blow in the final 11th round or will we get a split decision, or even an unlikely KO from the Linux corner?

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Look, if it’s any help for the cause; beer on Cornflakes is pretty awesome.

neves said:

Tho, if you drop a Windows user on Linux Mint:

(and not a single terminal command was used:)

I learned about Linux distributions - from google (don't have any qualification whatsoever - and to this day i still use google for stuff i forgot or if there's something i don't know - and always found the info if available)

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Yeah, this is the reason I recommend giving Mint a go if a seasoned Windows user and want to try something new. The differences are quite minimal between the two.

Same here, I Google a lot of stuff too. Can't remember most stuff, or it simply is just faster to check the correct commands/paths rather than trying to figure it out on your own. This Applies to Windows, Linux and Android aswell. All the relevant information for most tasks is quite easily available.

What can however be quite involved, is modifying the OS so that it works for your specific needs and tastes. But again, this applies to all OSes too and quite often something break because there may exist package conflicts or a new system update kills compatibility. Does not matter if it's Windows or Linux. This is also the reason why I tend to keep Windows and Linux both as vanilla as possible. The more I fiddle, the more likely it is that something breaks.