Updating From 10 to 11 Secure Boot & TPM Question

windoc · Dec 28, 2021

jnichols2 said:
Microsoft could have done a better job explaining the requirements to those who weren't on this forum.

Windows 11 System Requirements

Learn about Windows 11 minimum system requirements and how to assess your upgrade eligibility.

support.microsoft.com

jnichols2 · Dec 28, 2021

Thank you, I set a link to that.

fmw · Dec 28, 2021

hsehestedt said:
fmw, just out of curiosity, why install Windows 10 and then upgrade to Win 11? Since you are doing a new installation of Windows already, why not simply start with Windows 11 right from the start rather than having to go through all that upgrade nonsense?

Apologies if I'm missing something or not properly understanding the scenario.

I am not doing a fresh windows install. I am building out the supported system and then installing the SATA SSD from my current computer. It runs 10 and has all my apps and files. Microsoft will upgrade it to 11 on line happily. I didn't buy an SSD for the rebuild. I have two spare SATA SSD's and will put one of them in what will become our backup system.

I may use the new build to do a supported 11 install on one of my SSD's to see if it can run on an unsupported computer and still do updates. Theoretically it won't work but it wouldn't be a difficult experiment.

tinmar49 · Dec 28, 2021

The reason I started with W10 and then performed a clean install with an ISO downloaded from Microsoft is to have the W10 fully activated with my Microsoft account and then sorting out the TPM and secure boot first. This has worked for me on 3 machines.
My ISO of W11 does not have a product key.

glasskuter · Dec 28, 2021

NavyLCDR said:
What I find especially humorous is the users that upgrade to Windows 11 and then install all kinds of hacks and apps to make it look like/act like Windows 10

Up to a point, I totally agree with this statement. Where I disagree is, while most everything in 11 is either better or as acceptable as to the way it is in 10, a few changes to the interface are way worse when it comes to productivity, specifically:
Explorer ribbon
Right click context menu.
Default drag and drop action

Any new OS is not a "One Size Fits All" because everyone uses their computers differently. MS can't please everyone, but at least MOST times they leave a door open in the registry for a user to get what he wants. Thus, was born our own champion, Shawn @Brink. If MS didn't expect some users to alter their systems, they would lock the door...tight.

tinmar49 · Dec 30, 2021

jnichols2 said:
I tried my 8th Gen I7 gaming desktop first, and it failed the test.
I had to do the research to find out why. Luckily it just needed changes in the BIOS.
The HP laptop passed muster on first check.

Microsoft could have done a better job explaining the requirements to those who weren't on this forum.

Dead right about the lack of help from Microsoft, without lots of help from this forum and the W10 sister forum I would have had no idea.

fmw · Jan 19, 2022

england66 said:
Reality has set in , I won't be updating to windows 11 anytime soon.
In addition to the above changes I cannot myself accept the changes to file explorer or the right click menu. As things stand I can't think of anything positive to say about Windows 11

I can't either but I can't say anything negative about it either. It is about the same thing.

BrianInEngland · Jan 19, 2022

Secure Boot isn't a requirement, I've never enabled it and upgraded to Windows 11 without issue. I don't even have an active TPM now either

hsehestedt · Jan 19, 2022

tinmar49 said:
Dead right about the lack of help from Microsoft, without lots of help from this forum and the W10 sister forum I would have had no idea.

Just my personal opinion: I thought that Microsoft did a good job clearly laying out the details...

Windows 11 System Requirements

Learn about Windows 11 minimum system requirements and how to assess your upgrade eligibility.

support.microsoft.com

Winuser · Jan 20, 2022

BrianInEngland said:
Secure Boot isn't a requirement, I've never enabled it and upgraded to Windows 11 without issue. I don't even have an active TPM now either

Reading the requirements MS posted, The systems has to be Secure Boot capable. It doesn't say Secure Boot has to be turned on. My new desktop came preloaded with Windows 10 Pro. When the Windows 11 Insider builds were released I Upgrade to Windows 11 Pro. Recently I found out that Secure Boot was never turned on. I don't know about clean installs but I do know it doesn't have to be turned on to upgrade from Windows 10 to Windows 11. I did turn on Secure Boot once I found out it was off. I'm going to check my laptop later today when I fire it up to do the build update.

Dch48 · Jan 20, 2022

The only thing with secure boot is that if you have discs or USB sticks with bootable utilities on them, they will not boot if they are based on a Linux environment. Win PE based things are fine but Linux stuff either says it is blacklisted or just gets skipped in the boot process. It is a good security measure and I would recommend having it turned on. I even have an old AOMEI boot disk that is Win PE based but won't boot in my 2 newer UEFI systems. I booted it up in an older legacy BIOS system and found that the PE environment is that of Windows 7. Needless to say I have made a new boot disc and it works in all my systems except the little 2 in 1 tablet that will not boot from optical media even if an external drive is used. It is picky about USB sticks as well and does not have a boot order option in the BIOS that works so I have to boot into the BIOS, go to boot override, and choose the usb stick. Nearly half of the time, that doesn't even work .

Anibor_11 · Jan 20, 2022

Dch48 said:
The only thing with secure boot is that if you have discs or USB sticks with bootable utilities on them, they will not boot if they are based on a Linux environment. Win PE based things are fine but Linux stuff either says it is blacklisted or just gets skipped in the boot process.

Not true in general, maybe true in some cases. I use regularly boot UFD based on Linux, which work perfectly with Secure Boot enabled. One example is a UFD with TeraByte IFL (Image for Linux).

fmw · Jan 21, 2022

AddRAM said:
It will not download and install if it doesn`t meet the standards.
Yes, secure boot and TPM have to be enabled.
I have never turned off secure boot when making a image of W11. If you do, 11 may not run anyway, but give it a try if you want to find out.

11 runs just fine without TPM and secure boot. It just won't install without them. I have 10 year old computer running 11. TPM and secure boot didn't exist in those days.

hsehestedt · Jan 21, 2022

fmw said:
11 runs just fine without TPM and secure boot. It just won't install without them.

Actually, it's rather trivial to install without either, especially if you are doing a clean install. Lots of discussions about that on this Forum.

AddRAM · Jan 22, 2022

NavyLCDR said:
What I find especially humorous is the users that upgrade to Windows 11 and then install all kinds of hacks and apps to make it look like/act like Windows 10

That is funny

the only thing I changed was the right click menu.

fmw · Jan 22, 2022

hsehestedt said:
Actually, it's rather trivial to install without either, especially if you are doing a clean install. Lots of discussions about that on this Forum.

The trivial methods require hacks which are beyond what most windows users should do, I think. Possible, sure. Trivial, not in my view. I finished ugrading all my systems to 11 using an OS that I generated on a supported system and then added our software. I cloned it to the drive in each system and then changed the key. That isn't trivial either because it requires having at least one supported system. I have 11 everywhere except for one Linux machine and my wife's computer. My wife won't let me touch it.

mecanicogolf · Jan 22, 2022

hsehestedt said:
Actually, it's rather trivial to install without either, especially if you are doing a clean install. Lots of discussions about that on this Forum.

I've got them both, only thing I don't have is the CPU. i5 CORE 7000U@2,50 Hz. It's installed and been running for 6 months now with no problems. Lots of discussions about THIS topic also on this Forum too. No one has been able to convince me to uninstall. It's running better than Win 10 was and faster. CPU doesn't seem to hinder it's performance. I know it's a borderline case (March 2017).

NavyLCDR · Jan 22, 2022

Doing a clean install on an unsupported system does not require any hacks at all. It can be done from a completely stock, unmodified Windows 11 installation USB flash drive which can be created from almost any computer, supported or not.

That includes even installing to MBR drive with legacy BIOS booting.

fmw · Jan 22, 2022

NavyLCDR said:
Doing a clean install on an unsupported system does not require any hacks at all. It can be done from a completely stock, unmodified Windows 11 installation USB flash drive which can be created from almost any computer, supported or not.

That includes even installing to MBR drive with legacy BIOS booting.

Well I tried to do what you say and failed. Since I am pretty knowledgeable about computers and once owned and operated a computer company, that makes it something other than trivial for me. I've read several posts explaining the process and not one worked for me. What worked for me was setting up 11 on a supported system and cloning drives from it. I can chalk it up to age, I suppose. I don't do things as well as I did as a young man.

NavyLCDR · Jan 22, 2022

fmw said:
Well I tried to do what you say and failed. Since I am pretty knowledgeable about computers and once owned and operated a computer company, that makes it something other than trivial for me. I've read several posts explaining the process and not one worked for me. What worked for me was setting up 11 on a supported system and cloning drives from it. I can chalk it up to age, I suppose. I don't do things as well as I did as a young man.

Code:

C:\windows\system32>diskpart

Microsoft DiskPart version 10.0.22000.1

Copyright (C) Microsoft Corporation.
On computer: RAIDER

DISKPART> list disk

  Disk ###  Status         Size     Free     Dyn  Gpt
  --------  -------------  -------  -------  ---  ---
  Disk 0    Online          953 GB      0 B        *
  Disk 1    Online          465 GB      0 B        *
  Disk 3    Online          127 GB      0 B

DISKPART> list volume

  Volume ###  Ltr  Label        Fs     Type        Size     Status     Info
  ----------  ---  -----------  -----  ----------  -------  ---------  --------
  Volume 0     F   ESD-ISO      UDF    DVD-ROM     4327 MB  Healthy
  Volume 1     D   Data         NTFS   Partition    945 GB  Healthy
  Volume 2     R   RECOVERY     FAT32  Partition   8191 MB  Healthy
  Volume 3     C   Windows      NTFS   Partition    443 GB  Healthy    Boot
  Volume 4                      FAT32  Partition    100 MB  Healthy    System
  Volume 5         WinRE tools  NTFS   Partition    980 MB  Healthy    Hidden
  Volume 6         BIOS_RVY     NTFS   Partition     21 GB  Healthy    Hidden
  Volume 7     E                NTFS   Partition    126 GB  Healthy

DISKPART>

Disk 3 is where I want to install Windows 11 to, MBR booting in legacy BIOS mode. Drive F: would be my standard USB flash drive created with Microsoft's Media Creation Tool. To open the command prompt press Shift + F10 after booting the computer from the USB flash drive.

Code:

DISKPART> select disk 3

Disk 3 is now the selected disk.

DISKPART> clean

DiskPart succeeded in cleaning the disk.

DISKPART> create part pri size=100

DiskPart succeeded in creating the specified partition.

DISKPART> active

DiskPart marked the current partition as active.

DISKPART> format fs=ntfs quick label="System Reserved"

  100 percent completed

DiskPart successfully formatted the volume.

DISKPART> assign letter=s

DiskPart successfully assigned the drive letter or mount point.

DISKPART> create part pri

DiskPart succeeded in creating the specified partition.

DISKPART> format fs=ntfs quick label="Win11"

  100 percent completed

DiskPart successfully formatted the volume.

DISKPART> assign letter=t

DiskPart successfully assigned the drive letter or mount point.

DISKPART> exit

Leaving DiskPart...

C:\windows\system32>f:

F:\>cd sources

F:\sources>dism /get-wiminfo /wimfile:install.esd

Deployment Image Servicing and Management tool
Version: 10.0.22000.1

Details for image : install.esd

Index : 1
Name : Windows 11 Home
Description : Windows 11 Home
Size : 15,918,540,541 bytes

Index : 2
Name : Windows 11 Home N
Description : Windows 11 Home N
Size : 15,229,765,223 bytes

Index : 3
Name : Windows 11 Home Single Language
Description : Windows 11 Home Single Language
Size : 15,921,439,394 bytes

Index : 4
Name : Windows 11 Education
Description : Windows 11 Education
Size : 16,201,186,274 bytes

Index : 5
Name : Windows 11 Education N
Description : Windows 11 Education N
Size : 15,500,722,223 bytes

Index : 6
Name : Windows 11 Pro
Description : Windows 11 Pro
Size : 16,198,033,078 bytes

Index : 7
Name : Windows 11 Pro N
Description : Windows 11 Pro N
Size : 15,515,196,102 bytes

The operation completed successfully.

F:\sources>dism /apply-image /imagefile:install.esd /index:6 /applydir:T:\

Deployment Image Servicing and Management tool
Version: 10.0.22000.1

Applying image
[==========================100.0%==========================]
The operation completed successfully.

F:\sources>bcdboot T:\Windows /s S: /f BIOS
Boot files successfully created.

F:\sources>

Reboot the computer into the newly installed Windows 11 on the hard drive (or SSD). Took me less than 2 minutes to type the commands. Waiting for the image to apply is the longest part of the procedure. Only minor changes are required in the commands to install to GPT disk and boot in UEFI mode. I am 55 years old.

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