Upgrade Windows 10 Home to Windows 11 Pro?

Almighty1 · Aug 30, 2021

BunnyJ said:
Dude.. no one is going to take up a case for 5 bucks. That's an issue for small claims court at best.

That's the point. If it's $9.99 and under, the credit card issuing bank will just give a permanent credit for the full amount. If it's $10.00 or over, then it will go through the investigation process and it will be on the burden of the seller to prove the key is legal among other things because they will not be paying $10.00, it will come with a chargeback fee added on top of it which will be expensive. If one paid via Paypal, then it's a different issue.

Almighty1 · Aug 30, 2021

SlicEnDicE said:
If you don't own a valid license you'll end up with a non-activated Windows. Home, Pro, Enterprise...does not matter.

Remember the person had to have a valid license since we're talking about upgrading as the Home license would always be valid, it's the one that you upgraded to that's risky.

BunnyJ · Aug 30, 2021

Never-mind... I'm done here..

SlicEnDicE · Aug 30, 2021

Almighty1 said:
Remember the person had to have a valid license since we're talking about upgrading as the Home license would always be valid, it's the one that you upgraded to that's risky.

Aah yeah...I got carried away a bit.

But anyways in this case only option is to clean install Windows Home, since you can't downgrade a Windows Pro install.

Almighty1 · Aug 30, 2021

BunnyJ said:
Oh... other than being a waste of both time and money you're correct.

You can waste both time and money even if you did it the full price route as someone mentioned earlier so it should really be said, YMMV either way. You just want to keep them to a minimum.

Superfly · Aug 30, 2021

Almighty1 said:
Remember, you do not really know how they bought the keys since it could be someone trying to get rid of a product as how often do people really pay sticker price for anything.

And just for your information, I am a Microsoft shareholder for longer than most people so I know how they make money. It all depends on the distribution channel on where someone gets their stuff which might not always be someone buying a volume license key.

View attachment 6740

And using your Ferrari example, I know for a fact that many people have bought BMW's at cost since there is something known as MSRP (Manufacturers Suggested Retail Price) and what prices it's allowed to be sold at. Some manufacturers have something called MAP (Minimal Advertised Price) which is what they agreed not to sell under. Louis Vuitton and Rolex are two examples of things that never sells below sticker price as it's their policy but Omega on the other hand can often be bought under the MSRP.

But anyways, using your link, it has been said that it's Volume Licenses that are the ones that are the ones with problems as this is what I get with what they recommended as a way to check using slmgr -dli:

View attachment 6739

People can sell things for anything they want to and there is virtually no risk since it's not like the money will be lost as this is protected by Regulation Z of the US Truth in Lending Act should something go wrong.

As an MSFT share holder I would be concerned about non-official distribution - MS has not enforced the EULA close to adequately on consumer products - even a VL key can get a retail digital licence.

Don't get me wrong... I'm all for freedom of choice, but if it involves circumventing official means of activation (MS has a web page detailing this) , we won't support that - in my Activation troubleshooting - Windows 10 Help Forums thread at TF I specifically noted:
1. Specify from whom the Windows 10 media and what type of key was purchased.

These keys have proven to be troublesome.

BunnyJ · Aug 30, 2021

Almighty1 said:
You can waste both time and money even if you did it the full price route as someone mentioned earlier so it should really be said, YMMV either way. You just want to keep them to a minimum.

By going the full price route you get a valid key.. using Amazon, MS etc.

Almighty1 · Aug 30, 2021

SlicEnDicE said:
Aah yeah...I got carried away a bit.

But anyways in this case only option is to clean install Windows Home, since you can't downgrade a Windows Pro install.

I thought someone posted a link earlier in the thread that said there was a way to downgrade back to Home from Pro without data loss? Downgrade from Windows 10 Pro to Windows 10 Home

Bree · Aug 30, 2021

cereberus said:
It is alleged that MS did this as many users were customising in W10 home, then upgraded using generic key and more or less getting pro free.

That may be true, but MS only made it more difficult, not impossible. You could never get an activated Pro that way, not now or before MS made the change. So their 'free' Pro was in violation of the EULA and not legal to use.

Bree · Aug 30, 2021

SlicEnDicE said:
....since you can't downgrade a Windows Pro install.

actually you can, but it's a lot of work.

Downgrade from Windows 10 Pro to Windows 10 Home

You may find yourself needing or wanting to downgrade from the Windows 10 Pro, Education, or Enterprise edition to the Windows 10 Home edition. However, a direct downgrade from Windows 10 Pro, Education, or Enterprise to Windows 10 Home is not supported,

www.tenforums.com

Almighty1 · Aug 30, 2021

Superfly said:
As an MSFT share holder I would be concerned about non-official distribution - MS has not enforced the EULA close to adequately on consumer products - even a VL key can get a retail digital licence.

Don't get me wrong... I'm all for freedom of choice, but if it involves circumventing official means of activation (MS has a web page detailing this) , we won't support that - in my Activation troubleshooting - Windows 10 Help Forums thread at TF I specifically noted:
1. Specify from whom the Windows 10 media and what type of key was purchased.

These keys have proven to be troublesome.

You have valid points but how does a VL key get a retail digital license? As for what you said for with #1, what about all the people who upgraded to Windows 10 for free as none of them had Windows 10 on media and they did not purchased keys either. Since even for people who bought a brand name machine with Windows 10 already on it, they won't have the media either and they don't have keys with something official like they did with things prior to Windows 10.

Superfly · Aug 30, 2021

Bree said:
actually you can, but it's a lot of work.

Downgrade from Windows 10 Pro to Windows 10 Home

You may find yourself needing or wanting to downgrade from the Windows 10 Pro, Education, or Enterprise edition to the Windows 10 Home edition. However, a direct downgrade from Windows 10 Pro, Education, or Enterprise to Windows 10 Home is not supported,

www.tenforums.com

It does work, but creates a Frankenbuild of mis-matched components... not ideal but I can't recall a better way I came across back then - will have to wrack my little brain cell ...

Almighty1 · Aug 30, 2021

Bree said:
actually you can, but it's a lot of work.

Downgrade from Windows 10 Pro to Windows 10 Home

You may find yourself needing or wanting to downgrade from the Windows 10 Pro, Education, or Enterprise edition to the Windows 10 Home edition. However, a direct downgrade from Windows 10 Pro, Education, or Enterprise to Windows 10 Home is not supported,

www.tenforums.com

If I am reading it correctly, isn't it just two registry keys and just a in-place repair install? Is that really a lot of work in reality since I've done plenty on in-place repair installs even with Windows 11.

Superfly · Aug 30, 2021

Almighty1 said:
You have valid points but how does a VL key get a retail digital license? As for what you said for with #1, what about all the people who upgraded to Windows 10 for free as none of them had Windows 10 on media and they did not purchased keys either. Since even for people who bought a brand name machine with Windows 10 already on it, they won't have the media either and they don't have keys with something official like they did with things prior to Windows 10.

Well, ask MSFT why an Enterprise KMS install that gets upgraded gets a digital licence ( contrary to the EULA) even my corporate MAK Pro got one... go figure...

The media and key are linked - I could have worded it better suppose.

NavyLCDR · Aug 30, 2021

Here's the thing with these Windows 10 product keys. The product keys do not have to keep working over and over again. They only have to work once. I have never seen an instance where Microsoft has revoked a digital license once it has been granted. Volume licenses that don't result in a permanent digital license are different.

cereberus · Aug 30, 2021

Almighty1 said:
If they disable, then you will just end up with Home again and one can always buy from Microsoft at that point in time.

If a key get disabled after you upgrade to Pro i.e. key worked just once, then PC will have a digital Pro licence. You will NOT go back to Home.

If key is disabled before you install Pro, then key is totally useless.

Almighty1 · Aug 30, 2021

Superfly said:
Well, ask MSFT why an Enterprise KMS install that gets upgraded gets a digital licence ( contrary to the EULA) even my corporate MAK Pro got one... go figure...

The media and key are linked - I could have worded it better suppose.

That means their database is messed up as the EULA is more of a legal agreement but how they maintain the database is another issue. Ofcourse that's probably the same reason someone in the thread mentioned earlier that they upgraded to Pro and ended up with Enterprise. I mean owning and operating a ISP since the 1990s and even at NASA, there had been instances of activations that got deactivated many years down the road which was why I said YMMV as like the saying goes, there are no certainties in life or guarantees except taxes and death. Keys are generally what people get with new systems as I guess it's also how one defines media since I would think of media as something physical probably because I've went through 5.25" and 3.5" floppies and CD's and DVD's so anything less just seems to not be the same type of media.

Bree · Aug 30, 2021

NavyLCDR said:
The product keys do not have to keep working over and over again. They only have to work once. I have never seen an instance where Microsoft has revoked a digital license once it has been granted.

If you used a MAK volume key to activate an install of Windows 10 then you'd get a digital licence for that PC. However, if that MAK key remains as the installed key then if MS detected abuse of that MAK key and revoked it your Windows would say 'unactivated'. Changing the installed key to the generic key should reactivate it from the existing digital licence, as that wouldn't have been revoked, only that particular key.

Kari · Aug 30, 2021

Almighty1 said:
You have valid points but how does a VL key get a retail digital license?

There are two types of Windows volume licensing (VL) keys, Multiple Activation Keys (MAK) and Key Management Services keys (KMS). The PRO edition currently installed on this laptop I am using at the moment is activated with a MAK key. A legal MAK key, by the way, from my own MSDN / Visual Studio subscription.

Windows licensing shows it as Retail license, as it has always been with MAK keys in Windows.

Kari

cereberus · Aug 30, 2021

NavyLCDR said:
Here's the thing with these Windows 10 product keys. The product keys do not have to keep working over and over again. They only have to work once. I have never seen an instance where Microsoft has revoked a digital license once it has been granted. Volume licenses that don't result in a permanent digital license are different.

You beat me to it. It seems to be impossible to remove a digital licence. Even if you successfully transfer one to a new device using the activation troubleshooter, the old device retains its digital licence.

Of course, doing this deliberately is piracy, as is using a cheap code (in most cases).

One can only conclude MS do not really care about the odd licence being pirated as it will probably cost them more to enforce the EULA than the revenue lost.

This was self evident when Windows 10 first came out and users gound they could run it indefinitely if unactivated albeit some personalisation restrictions.

In the end, it all comes down to personal integrity. I choose not to pirate licences.