Why Windows 11?

pparks1 · Aug 4, 2021

larc919 said:
New versions of Windows may be necessary at times, but only if they are clearly better and offer substantial improvement. Just because something is new and has mostly cosmetic changes doesn't mean it's a worthwhile upgrade. The ideal upgrade is one that needs to be done for operational reasons, not on a whim or due to greed.

Well, Windows 10 was released in 2015, so it's 6 years old and supported for another 4 years. Nobody here is being forced to upgrade to this new OS. You got over 4 more years with Windows 10 being fully supported. I still have a box in my home running Windows 7, because it doesn't need any additional functionality, it's not in the internet so I am not concerned about security issues and it doesn't give me any trouble. So, I'll likely stick with it until it dies.

Pretty sure that an OS coming out after 6 years is not necessarily "on a whim". It's been under development for quite some time. i have no real plans to upgrade my actual desktop, my kids desktop or my wife's desktop to Windows 11 anytime soon. I'm play with it on VM's and test hardware for a while until it does something that I need, or until my machine starts having problems and it's time for a reinstall.

larc919 · Aug 6, 2021

johnlgalt said:
It's the same argument over and over again. Things change - people don't like the changes. People are vocal about it.

How ticked off would people have been if they had released Windows 10 21H1 and said in order to install Windows 10 21H2 you have to have an 8th gen or higher Intel CPU / 2nd gen or higher Ryzen / ThreadRipper CPU in order to install 21H2, plus TPM 2.0 and Secure Boot enabled, other wise you're stuck on 21H1 for 4+ years?

They couldn't mandate that in the same OS. It had to be done in a new OS.

Even if it is fluff, or smoke and mirrors to make people 'feel good' about security - it's what they have chosen to do.

11 is the first version of Windows I've complained about since Vista. My dissatisfaction with it is based on negative changes from 10 with either no or weak new features and functions to make daily use more convenient. As for security, what does 11 mandate that can't be done in 10? Overall, I simply don't see 11 in its current configuration as being better than 10 or even different in any way that results in a more positive user experience.

barman58 · Aug 6, 2021

Security is a complex issue in the IT Field, where when I started out in this business, security for IT systems was mostly, as all security, a basic physical barrier to prevent access to the computers ...

Now forty plus years on we have the internet and other wide access systems meaning that we need to secure not only our own systems but also every system that we may interact with. Making all systems, over time, to be as secure as we can In this current situation by setting minimum security standards, will control the "BotNets" and other criminal distributed computing that is used to breakdown security barriers to our data and will make everyone's data safer :)

bobkn · Aug 6, 2021

larc919 said:
11 is the first version of Windows I've complained about since Vista. My dissatisfaction with it is based on negative changes from 10 with either no or weak new features and functions to make daily use more convenient. As for security, what does 11 mandate that can't be done in 10? Overall, I simply don't see 11 in its current configuration as being better than 10 or even different in any way that results in a more positive user experience.

It appears that the security features currently mandated for 11 were required by Microsoft for new PCs certified for Windows 10. I'm not sure whether all of the features were turned on by default. (My desktop systems are home assembled.)

The obvious change in 11 is that the security stuff will required to upgrade from 10 or to do a new installation.

Whether MS will manage to sweeten the pot with significantly desirable new features by General Availabilty, I doubt.

pparks1 · Aug 8, 2021

End of the day, most of us enthusiasts will likely say "nah, I'm gonna stick with Windows 10, it's working great for me". And then about the time that Windows 11 officially drops, we will then be scrounging for the leaks and wearing out our F5 keys for the official releases to that we can install on our computers and test, play, benchmark and troubleshoot.

johnlgalt · Aug 8, 2021

pparks1 said:
Well, Windows 10 was released in 2015, so it's 6 years old and supported for another 4 years. Nobody here is being forced to upgrade to this new OS. You got over 4 more years with Windows 10 being fully supported. I still have a box in my home running Windows 7, because it doesn't need any additional functionality, it's not in the internet so I am not concerned about security issues and it doesn't give me any trouble. So, I'll likely stick with it until it dies.

Pretty sure that an OS coming out after 6 years is not necessarily "on a whim". It's been under development for quite some time. i have no real plans to upgrade my actual desktop, my kids desktop or my wife's desktop to Windows 11 anytime soon. I'm play with it on VM's and test hardware for a while until it does something that I need, or until my machine starts having problems and it's time for a reinstall.

Well said. I am playing with it on live hardware, but it's mainly because my hardware fully matches the requirements - which, being a home built unit from a year ago, is just luck on my part.

larc919 said:
11 is the first version of Windows I've complained about since Vista. My dissatisfaction with it is based on negative changes from 10 with either no or weak new features and functions to make daily use more convenient. As for security, what does 11 mandate that can't be done in 10? Overall, I simply don't see 11 in its current configuration as being better than 10 or even different in any way that results in a more positive user experience.

And you're complaining about something we've only had 6 builds of over the course of a month and a half. But at least you do mention "in its current configuration" at the end.

It's a worldwide Beta test. Don't like it? Don't use it.

Better yet, use hte feedback extensively to share your thoughts directly with Microsoft - and if you share those feedback items here, I, for one, will support every valid point with an upvote. I'm pretty sure others here will as well.

barman58 said:
Security is a complex issue in the IT Field, where when I started out in this business, security for IT systems was mostly, as all security, a basic physical barrier to prevent access to the computers ...

Now forty plus years on we have the internet and other wide access systems meaning that we need to secure not only our own systems but also every system that we may interact with. Making all systems, over time, to be as secure as we can In this current situation by setting minimum security standards, will control the "BotNets" and other criminal distributed computing that is used to breakdown security barriers to our data and will make everyone's data safer :)

Agreed. It's better than doing nothing about it. just like it was better to introduce UAC in Vista than doing nothing about the rampant issues in XP. And no matter how many people liked / loved / couldn't live without XP, it had flaws. Numerous, flaws. And that is a proven fact, not just diatribe based upon my own opinions.

Will what Microsoft does for Windows 11 be enough? Never. There is never going to be enough done, because, at the end of the day, if it is digital, it can be hacked, as long as you canget access to whatever 'it' is. In this day and age of the connected household and with more and more devices being connected, hacks have become easier, more widespread, and more damaging. Something, somewhere, has to be done.

So, I applaud Microsoft's efforts, even if it seemingly does not go far enough. It's still better than nothing.

bobkn said:
It appears that the security features currently mandated for 11 were required by Microsoft for new PCs certified for Windows 10. I'm not sure whether all of the features were turned on by default. (My desktop systems are home assembled.)

The obvious change in 11 is that the security stuff will required to upgrade from 10 or to do a new installation.

Whether MS will manage to sweeten the pot with significantly desirable new features by General Availabilty, I doubt.

I did not realize that. But as I also build at home, and don't buy OEM manufactured machines, I'm not surprised that I didn't know that.

As for them sweetening the pot? Uh, probably not until the next iteration of Windows. :lmao:

pparks1 said:
End of the day, most of us enthusiasts will likely say "nah, I'm gonna stick with Windows 10, it's working great for me". And then about the time that Windows 11 officially drops, we will then be scrounging for the leaks and wearing out our F5 keys for the official releases to that we can install on our computers and test, play, benchmark and troubleshoot.

I doubt I will be one of those. Of course, it helps I have supporting hardware. And sure, it has some issues which I feel are annoying. But, at the end of hte day, I'd rather be on a current-gen OS which will have more focus for development and improvement than on an OS whose time is limited. As long as it doesn't break something absolutely crucial for me (and thus far, it really hasn't, my own complaints notwithstanding), I'll be on 11 for the foreseeable future.

Until Microsoft gets a wild hair you know where and changes things again.

Dru2 · Aug 8, 2021

I like what I see in Windows 11 and look forward to final release.

My current desktop (main rig) fully supports Windows 11 as is, but I'm currently running Windows 11 on my Lenovo laptop (7th gen CPU), which does not fully support 11. The reason for thus thus far is I want to see how 11 functions in the real world with real world apps in everyday use (when I'm not on my desktop I'm on my laptop). Thus far so good.

That said, for me, I do plan on buying a Windows 11 laptop when the OS goes final. I also plan on putting the OS on my main system once the OS moves out of the "Dev" channel.

As a PC enthusiast, I've run every non-server Windows OS since Windows 95. I'm glad I have a chance to play with 11 now and look forward to its final release. That even if I didn't have supported machines I'd build one (desktop) or buy one (laptop) for 11. That's me.

Winuser · Aug 8, 2021

I have two desktops and a laptop that I use. I installed Windows 11 on all of them. My two desktops meet all the requirements so I don't have to worry about them. They are going to stay Insider builds. My laptop meets every requirement except the CPU. It is a 6th Gen i7. Unless it runs into any problems running Windows 11, I don't plan on downgrading back to Windows 10. My wife's new laptop meets the requirements and I'll upgrade it to Windows 11 when it's officially released to the public.

Wynona · Aug 8, 2021

MoiraPrime said:
I actually love the new settings UI, my only real dislike about it is that the back button should be somewhere besides the top right corner of the window.

Is that where it is!?

Winuser · Aug 8, 2021

MoiraPrime said:
I actually love the new settings UI, my only real dislike about it is that the back button should be somewhere besides the top right corner of the window.

On my desktop it's on the upper left-hand side.

MoiraPrime · Aug 9, 2021

Winuser said:
On my desktop it's on the upper left-hand side.

I meant top left. I'm just an idiot. LMAO

Winuser · Aug 9, 2021

MoiraPrime said:
I meant top left. I'm just an idiot. LMAO

No! Just typing faster than you were thinking. It happens to all of us. :)

Winuser · Aug 9, 2021

MoiraPrime said:
I meant top left. I'm just an idiot. LMAO

I was thinking that you may have made some mods to Windows 11.

Haydon · Aug 10, 2021

barman58 said:
Security is a complex issue in the IT Field, where when I started out in this business, security for IT systems was mostly, as all security, a basic physical barrier to prevent access to the computers ...

Now forty plus years on we have the internet and other wide access systems meaning that we need to secure not only our own systems but also every system that we may interact with. Making all systems, over time, to be as secure as we can In this current situation by setting minimum security standards, will control the "BotNets" and other criminal distributed computing that is used to breakdown security barriers to our data and will make everyone's data safer :)

In the same vein, with pre-release versions of Windows 11 (or pre-release versions of anything, for that matter) you never know for sure if it is a bug or a breach, and hence pose a significant security issue.

At the very least, do NOT populate the machine with personal info, and do NOT put the machine on your home network, so as to have at least some measure of damage control in place in case of a breach. At least that was what I did when I mucked around with pre-release versions of Windows 10 (great fun) at the time.

No, I don't muck around with Windows 11 these days :scream:

Haydon · Aug 10, 2021

larc919 said:
As for security, what does 11 mandate that can't be done in 10?

The default security configuration of Windows 11 is more secure than the default security configuration of previous versions of Windows, because Windows 11 works by default with more, TPM in particular.

99% of consumers leave their computers in their default configurations (in terms of security and other settings) so Windows 11 is more secure than previous versions of Windows because of this 'laziness'

However, and moreover, if you have ever tried to max out security configurations of Windows versions, then you would have noticed that Windows 11 is more secure than previous versions of Windows. This topic is too complex to discuss here, it's more like a 100 page tutorial.

larc919 said:
Overall, I simply don't see 11 in its current configuration as being better than 10 or even different in any way that results in a more positive user experience.

As far as security goes, security is generally inconvenient, at airports and with computers, the more secure > the more inconvenient. MS does an EXTREMELY good job at hiding the inconveniences (and complexities) The user usually does not notice anything, be happy and marvel about it !!!

Edit: In the above, I didn't mean to say anything negative about the security of previous Windows versions. I myself will still be using Windows 10 for years to come. The security of previous Windows versions always appeared to me to be appropriate for the threat level of their time. Although for XP, I first used a free AV, then the cheapest AV I could find, LOL (I was not concerned about security at the time)

NavyLCDR · Aug 11, 2021

Haydon said:
In the same vein, with pre-release versions of Windows 11 (or pre-release versions of anything, for that matter) you never know for sure if it is a bug or a breach, and hence pose a significant security issue.

I'm just curious, how is that different than RTM versions of Windows? It seems like you are assuming that RTM versions of Windows are bug free.

Haydon · Aug 11, 2021

NavyLCDR said:
I'm just curious, how is that different than RTM versions of Windows? It seems like you are assuming that RTM versions of Windows are bug free.

Nothing is ever bug free, but the RTM version is considered safe, hence released to the general public.