Windows 11 Insider Preview Dev Build 22458 (RS_PRERELEASE) - Sept. 15

BunnyJ · Sep 16, 2021

Badger said:
Anyone else confirm UUP Dump is down? I've been unable to reach it for few hours now.

Seems like there are issues.

Bree · Sep 16, 2021

Badger said:
Anyone else confirm UUP Dump is down? I've been unable to reach it for few hours now.

Seems so....

...and in the Cloudfare notice I see at the top of this page.

johnlgalt · Sep 17, 2021

Thankfully this one installed over 22454 without any issues via WU. I didn't even know it had installed as I was not able to do much outside of work stuff for the last day or so, but this morning Explorer had reset the nav pane width, a sure sign something new was installed. Sure enough:

johnlgalt · Sep 17, 2021

Also, UUP Dump is working for me as of right now. So, looks like they got the issue(s) fixed.

waltc · Sep 17, 2021

jimbo45 said:
...I Loathe the new "Snipping tool" so here's an image of the VM running perfectly well using a much easier snipping tool in Linux (spectacle) which I'm going to convert to a physical machine.

BTW this is running on an old Celeron machine with 2014 BIOS --MBR and no TPM or UEFI !! -- the VM can be created witout problem -- TPM emulator is the IBM one (swtpm in git-hub plus libtpms)...

Cheers
jimbo

Just a couple of things here... :wink:

...My "new" snipping tool looks and functions just like the old one, as far as I can tell. I just hit the PrScr button for the tiny UI and there it is at the center of the taskbar... (see screenshot--it looks like this when run from the snipping tool exe.) I have to say that I see absolutely nothing at all about it that might be "difficult" to master.

The desire to run Win11 on a Celeron running a 7-year-old bios strikes me as an odd thing to spend one's time in doing, simply to escape Win11's very paltry baseline security...especially when that has to be accomplished running on top of a Linux build-supported VM!... :wink:

(Talk about wrapping your arms around your kneecaps to scratch your nose...!) I'm glad you think it worth it--at least you can boot like that--but I imagine that running actual applications and games minted after 2015 might provide a somewhat different story. (Sort of like folks who run WINE on a Linux build in order to run popular D3d Windows games and believe they are running a native Linux game when they do so, etc.)

(I used to enjoy "tinkering" quite a bit in my younger years, too, I can well remember...

It is fun to get your hardware to jump through hoops, stand on its head, and lots of other things it was never actually designed to do! Fun, but in the end of little value, imo. Because just about the time I'd pat myself on the back for learning X operating system backwards, forwards, and every which way but loose--that'd be about the time when something would come along that reduced all that knowledge to obsolescence!)

Anyway...it really is difficult for me to sympathize with folks who consider the meager security requirements for Win11 to be something onerous--an entirely irrational burden they feel put upon to have to shoulder. I think that what is "irrational," if anything is, is their reluctance, even stubbornness, towards running hardware and software security standards that have been universally available for the last two years--and some Win11 baseline requirements have been available for wide use for a couple of years before that! My current motherboard, purchased > 2 years ago, has supported TPM 2.0 from day 1--no TPM adapter necessary. And all the Win11 baseline requirements have been fully supported in Windows 10 without exception--again, for years. I was running every one of them under Win10. So, absolutely nothing there is either new or unprecedented. Which begs the question...why stand on your head in efforts to run Win11 without supporting those baseline requirements? Doesn't seem to be any practical reason for doing so, at best.

I mean, often the very people who will decry Win11 baseline requirements as an "unfair burden" are the very people who will cheerfully put down $800-$1000, or more, to get the latest iPhone Apple vomits up every so often, etc... :wink:

BTW, This screenshot is a 4k screenshot I was forced to reduce by half (to 1920x1080) because this site--unlike the Win10 site before it--will not accept 4k screenshots.

waltc · Sep 17, 2021

johnlgalt said:
Also, UUP Dump is working for me as of right now. So, looks like they got the issue(s) fixed.

Don't know if you noticed it, but Microsoft just put up the ISO for 22454, and the download is good through 9/18.

Flight Hub - Windows Insider Program

Flight schedules and status for Windows Insider Program

docs.microsoft.com

Download Official Windows 11 ISO file from Microsoft Tutorial

This tutorial will show you how to download an official Windows 11 ISO file from Microsoft. Microsoft provides ISO files for Windows 11 to download. You can use these ISO files to clean install or in-place upgrade Windows 11. The Flight Hub can also help you keep updated on which Windows 11...

www.elevenforum.com

Kari · Sep 17, 2021

waltc said:
Don't know if you noticed it, but Microsoft just put up the ISO for 22454, and the download is good through 9/18.[/URL]

Just to avoid any misunderstandings, the links are valid practically "forever".

When you go to Microsoft download site, you select your Windows version and language, and then a download link will be created. That unique link is valid for 24 hours. This was shown to me just now:

Links valid for 24 hours from time of creation.
Links expire: 9/18/2021 8:07:28 PM UTC

If you go to same site on May 6th, 2022, at 11:23 AM, you will be notified, that link is valid until May 7th, 2022, 11:23 AM.

You can check it tomorrow, and you will be told that link is valid until September 19th, not September 18th as was told to you today.

Download Windows Insider Preview ISO

Kari

jimbo45 · Sep 17, 2021

waltc said:
Just a couple of things here......My "new" snipping tool looks and functions just like the old one, as far as I can tell. I just hit the PrScr button for the tiny UI and there it is at the center of the taskbar... (see screenshot--it looks like this when run from the snipping tool exe.) I have to say that I see absolutely nothing at all about it that might be "difficult" to master.

The desire to run Win11 on a Celeron running a 7-year-old bios strikes me as an odd thing to spend one's time in doing, simply to escape Win11's very paltry baseline security...especially when that has to be accomplished running on top of a Linux build-supported VM!... (Talk about wrapping your arms around your kneecaps to scratch your nose...!) I'm glad you think it worth it--at least you can boot like that--but I imagine that running actual applications and games minted after 2015 might provide a somewhat different story. (Sort of like folks who run WINE on a Linux build in order to run popular D3d Windows games and believe they are running a native Linux game when they do so, etc.)

(I used to enjoy "tinkering" quite a bit in my younger years, too, I can well remember... It is fun to get your hardware to jump through hoops, stand on its head, and lots of other things it was never actually designed to do! Fun, but in the end of little value, imo. Because just about the time I'd pat myself on the back for learning X operating system backwards, forwards, and every which way but loose--that'd be about the time when something would come along that reduced all that knowledge to obsolescence!)

Anyway...it really is difficult for me to sympathize with folks who consider the meager security requirements for Win11 to be something onerous--an entirely irrational burden they feel put upon to have to shoulder. I think that what is "irrational," if anything is, is their reluctance, even stubbornness, towards running hardware and software security standards that have been universally available for the last two years--and some Win11 baseline requirements have been available for wide use for a couple of years before that! My current motherboard, purchased > 2 years ago, has supported TPM 2.0 from day 1--no TPM adapter necessary. And all the Win11 baseline requirements have been fully supported in Windows 10 without exception--again, for years. I was running every one of them under Win10. So, absolutely nothing there is either new or unprecedented. Which begs the question...why stand on your head in efforts to run Win11 without supporting those baseline requirements? Doesn't seem to be any practical reason for doing so, at best.

I mean, often the very people who will decry Win11 baseline requirements as an "unfair burden" are the very people who will cheerfully put down $800-$1000, or more, to get the latest iPhone Apple vomits up every so often, etc...

View attachment 8120 BTW, This screenshot is a 4k screenshot I was forced to reduce by half (to 1920x1080) because this site--unlike the Win10 site before it--will not accept 4k screenshots.

Hi there
I tend not to run intensive apps on Windows --Photoshop is about the most intensive I have so the VM's function extremely well -- I use Office quite a lot (EXCEL,POWERPOINT, WORD, OUTLOOK,VISIO and PROJECT) mainly which work perfectly well. My main beef was on some of the rediculous requirements on the CPU's -- some older i7's really are extremely good performers so why on earth force people into getting new hardware. Security provided also by "Emulated" TPM on a VM is just as good as a "Physical one" -- so I'm helping people in a way who want to run W11 to be able to do it in a way on decent hardware that works well without having necessarily to spend a lot of money -- also without compromising security. The fact that it can be done with an older MBR machine with a celeron processor shows my methodology isn't flawed --especially if you have much more "Robust" hardware.

For example :

Cheers
jimbo

SlicEnDicE · Sep 18, 2021

waltc said:
Which begs the question...why stand on your head in efforts to run Win11 without supporting those baseline requirements? Doesn't seem to be any practical reason for doing so, at best.

Because the user should have a choice.

I am running Windows 11 on 7-11 years old hardware and things like TPM wasn't a thing back then, especially not TPM2.0. Barely was available. Everything is running fine and haven't had any security concerns in about the same amount of time on any of my devices with and without any of the hardware security features enabled.

..so why would I as a user, wanna upgrade my computer just because MS says so, when there are absolutely NO issues what so ever regarding stability, speed, reliability and security? I mean they are cutting the line at 7th gen Intel CPUs as not compatible. What a load of BS. The CPUs are a bit over 4years old for crying out loud.

What a waste of resources.

UPDATE: Just to paint a picture of the reliability of Windows 11 on my old hardware:

These errors are all Windows 11 bugs and same bugs were happening in Windows 10 in early stages too. I have the same stuff happening on all computers regarding Windows Store Apps. No matter if I run it on 10 years or 10 minutes old hardware. As you can see the stability is clearly improving after each new update.

Superfly · Sep 18, 2021

SlicEnDicE said:
Because the user should have a choice.

I am running Windows 11 on 7-11 years old hardware and things like TPM wasn't a thing back then, especially not TPM2.0. Barely was available. Everything is running fine and haven't had any security concerns in about the same amount of time on any of my devices with and without any of the hardware security features enabled.

..so why would I as a user, wanna upgrade my computer just because MS says so, when there are absolutely NO issues what so ever regarding stability, speed, reliability and security? I mean they are cutting the line at 7th gen Intel CPUs as not compatible. What a load of BS. The CPUs are a bit over 4years old for crying out loud.

What a waste of resources.

UPDATE: Just to paint a picture of the reliability of Windows 11 on my old hardware:
View attachment 8153

These errors are all Windows 11 bugs and same bugs were happening in Windows 10 in early stages too. I have the same stuff happening on all computers regarding Windows Store Apps. No matter if I run it on 10 years or 10 minutes old hardware. As you can see the stability is clearly improving after each new update.

Has MS mitigated their decision regarding TPM and CPU's yet.. other than "it's got better security features but no-one is interested in it" ?

magilla · Sep 18, 2021

SlicEnDicE said:
Because the user should have a choice.

I am running Windows 11 on 7-11 years old hardware and things like TPM wasn't a thing back then, especially not TPM2.0. Barely was available. Everything is running fine and haven't had any security concerns in about the same amount of time on any of my devices with and without any of the hardware security features enabled.

..so why would I as a user, wanna upgrade my computer just because MS says so, when there are absolutely NO issues what so ever regarding stability, speed, reliability and security? I mean they are cutting the line at 7th gen Intel CPUs as not compatible. What a load of BS. The CPUs are a bit over 4years old for crying out loud.

What a waste of resources.

UPDATE: Just to paint a picture of the reliability of Windows 11 on my old hardware:
View attachment 8153

These errors are all Windows 11 bugs and same bugs were happening in Windows 10 in early stages too. I have the same stuff happening on all computers regarding Windows Store Apps. No matter if I run it on 10 years or 10 minutes old hardware. As you can see the stability is clearly improving after each new update.

I’m in agreement. Have fully compliant system except for 4 year old CPU that isn’t on the accept list. I’ve had no problems with beta or Dev channel builds thus far.

SlicEnDicE · Sep 18, 2021

Superfly said:
Has MS mitigated their decision regarding TPM and CPU's yet.. other than "it's got better security features but no-one is interested in it" ?

So far they stand by their desicions. The rules that have been set are holding. Let's revisit this in 2025. Things may change. Either support for 10 is extended or some major changes will happen to 11 hardware requirements.

A lot of businesses has barely got into the Win10 game yet and this Win10 move is making businesses lose money and rip their hair off.

jimbo45 · Sep 18, 2021

SlicEnDicE said:
So far they stand by their desicions. The rules that have been set are holding. Let's revisit this in 2025. Things may change. Either support for 10 is extended or some major changes will happen to 11 hardware requirements.

A lot of businesses has barely got into the Win10 game yet and this Win10 move is making businesses lose money and rip their hair off.

Some really big organisations (e.g UK's NHS - I think that's what passes for some sort of health service although the only time I had to use it --service was diabolical !! UK was in EU then so was OK for tourists then to access it) has the 3rd highest number of employees etc in the world after the Chinese People's Liberation Army (their words not mine !!) , and Indian Railways -- and they are still in a lot of places on XP !!!!!. Many local Govt services around the world are still on W7. Big businesses are like Oil tankers -- you can't suddenly stop and change horses midstream - some things take years to re-organise although a mainstream service still on XP rather says things about quality of management IMO anyway.

W10 I'm sure will be around for a lot longer than 2025 !!.

Some Banks I believe are still using old Mainframe COBOL !!!!

I do mainly remote working these days -- but I remember even a few (i.e around 4) years ago most home / remote workers had a lot better I.T equipment than the "Office" could supply. The only issue back then was in some places the Internet wasn't as good as the workplace -- a lot different now.

Cheers
jimbo

BunnyJ · Sep 18, 2021

jimbo45 said:
Some really big organisations (e.g UK's NHS - I think that's what passes for some sort of health serrvice) has the 3rd highest number of employees etc in the world after the Chinese People's Liberation Army (their words not mine !!) , and Indian Railways -- and they are still in a lot of places on XP !!!!!. Many local Govt services around the world are still on W7.

Some Banks I believe are still using old Mainframe COBOL !!!!

I do mainly remote working these days -- but I remember even a few (i.e around 4) years ago most home / remote workers had a lot better I.T equipment than the "Office" could supply. The only issue back then was in some places the Internet wasn't as good as the workplace -- a lot different now.

Cheers
jimbo

Nothing wrong with COBOL or say, FORTRAN. Right tool for the job.

galileo · Sep 18, 2021

BunnyJ said:
Nothing wrong with COBOL or say, FORTRAN. Right tool for the job.

...started with Fortran (1972) > PL1 (1975) > DOS (1988) > VB (1992) > VBA (2000) > C# (2015) ...mostly related to coding for my structural engineering practice and now for software development for photo formatting and text editing utilities...got fed up with over-bloated apps so I wrote my own...including rolling my own installers.

BunnyJ · Sep 18, 2021

galileo said:
...started with Fortran (1972) > PL1 (1975) > DOS (1988) > VB (1992) > VBA (2000) > C# (2015) ...mostly related to coding for my structural engineering practice and now for software development for photo formatting and text editing utilities...got fed up with over-bloated apps so I wrote my own...including rolling my own installers.

I used PL1, COBOL,, and Visual Basic as my core tools. In addition I used SAS, Focus and other utility language at the job. At the time I was working at an insurance company and we needed tools that were geared towards business needs.

SAS is still a great tool and I still use it. I loved PL1 but I only used it at AT&T.

jimbo45 · Sep 18, 2021

BunnyJ said:
Nothing wrong with COBOL or say, FORTRAN. Right tool for the job.

Hi there

Whatever gets the job done - but I doubt whether COBOL had enough facilities to handle real time updates and distrubuted databases etc and certainly no idea of OO.

I remember back to a time when ATM's only contacted the Bank after 00.01 so not until after midnight so if you were an impecunious student you could actually go to several ATM's and withdraw cash before midnight even though you had reached your limit. The Banks would take a few days before sending out "Overdrawn" notices - and by that time many students just gave them the proverbial 2-Fingers !!!

PL/I, ALGOL and REXX -- brilliant BTW and the IBM code generation language PL/S could have been a real winner -- I like these days though PYTHON --I'm not a programmer , more an Engineer but it's great for playing around with especially if you like tinkering with A.I type of stuff.

SAS still brilliant for any sort of statistical / mathematical analysis.

Also for old IBM MVS devotees -- you can run old MVS mainframe OS with JES2 / JES3 on your PC -- easily done --power of a PC easily beats those old even 3033 mainframes -- use Hercules emulator

The Hercules System/370, ESA/390, and z/Architecture Emulator

www.hercules-390.org

Great for a bit of time wasting -- Sat afternoons - - I loathe supermarket shopping so I'm always making excuses to "She who should be obeyed" to avoid that chore !!!

Cheers
jimbo

galileo · Sep 18, 2021

BunnyJ said:
SAS is still a great tool and I still use it. I loved PL1 but I only used it at AT&T.

I had a grad school prof that was totally torqued about PL1 primarily because its output formatting capabilities were "much" better than Fortran.

BunnyJ · Sep 18, 2021

jimbo45 said:
Hi there

Whatever gets the job done - but I doubt whether COBOL had enough facilities to handle real time updates and distrubuted databases etc and certainly no idea of OO.

I remember back to a time when ATM's only contacted the Bank after 00.01 so not until after midnight so if you were an impecunious student you could actually go to several ATM's and withdraw cash before midnight even though you had reached your limit. The Banks would take a few days before sending out "Overdrawn" notices - and by that time many students just gave them the proverbial 2-Fingers !!!

Cheers
jimbo

COBOL is and was used for big corporations to process large volumes of data and it did a great job processing real time transactions to say, DB2, via CICS. I was on a project that used Visual Basic to create a front end that created transaction to process real time updates, etc, on a mainframe with COBOL/DB2.

galileo · Sep 18, 2021

jimbo45 said:
PL/I, ALGOL and REXX -- brilliant BTW and the IBM code generation language PL/S could have been a real winner -- I like these days though PYTHON -- not a programmer but it's great for playing around with especially if you like tinkering with A.I type of stuff.

I currently use Visual Studio and develop in C#. My focus is geared toward graphical interfaces that are "intuitive" such that a user is not overwhelmed by a blizzard of toolbars, toolboxes, and icons. After dealing with very poorly designed GUI's in engineering software for many years (in fact decades), I'm trying to develop GUI presentations that are focused, streamlined, and...well, reasonably self guiding.