Would you buy from the first batch of Windows 11 computers?

Ghot · Jul 19, 2021

I never buy from the first batch...
I wait until they are fully ripe.

Haydon · Jul 19, 2021

Ghot said:
I never buy from the first batch...
I wait until they are fully ripe.

When are they fully ripe?
How long do you wait from RTM?

BunnyJ · Jul 19, 2021

Ghot said:
I never buy from the first batch...
I wait until they are fully ripe.

Like a banana?

Winuser · Jul 19, 2021

I think the question was more for anyone who is going to be buying a new computer. Not for anyone who already has a computer that is qualified to run Windows 11. I doubt any new Windows 10 computers for sale today wouldn't meet the specs to run Windows 11. If it doesn't I definitely wouldn't waste my money and buy it.

Dru2 · Jul 19, 2021

Winuser said:
I think the question should be, If you needed a new computer/laptop would you buy one with Windows 10 or Windows 11 preinstalled.

I took the question to mean exactly that. And what does "preinstall" mean since no vendor is going to sell a PC/Laptop with a beta OS.

Anyway, when I bought my first laptop I had a choice between a Windows 7 or 8 machine being store vendors were riding themselves of the Win 7 machines. I chose Windows 8 and never looked back at 7 again. Were I in the same boat today, I'd go with 11 and never look back at 10.

I've run (or beta tested) every Windows non-server based OS since Windows 95b. Yes, that includes Window Millennium (ME) ...

Also ran Windows 2000 (2K) and 2K server.

johnlgalt · Jul 19, 2021

You, sirrah, are a braver man than I am.

#$%^@#$%@#$ ME. Just ... no.

:lmao:

Winuser · Jul 19, 2021

Dru2 said:
For clarity's sake.... I highly doubt you'll find any legitimate vendors selling anything but a fully supported publicly released Windows 11 OS so any notion it'll still be beta is dubious at best.

I took the question to mean exactly that. And what does "preinstall" mean since no vendor is going to sell a PC/Laptop with a beta OS.

Anyway, when I bought my first laptop I had a choice between a Windows 7 or 8 machine being store vendors were riding themselves of the Win 7 machines. I chose Windows 8 and never looked back at 7 again. Were I in the same boat today, I'd go with 11 and never look back at 10.

I've run (or beta tested) every Windows non-server based OS since Windows 95b. Yes, that includes Window Millennium (ME) ...

View attachment 3547

Also ran Windows 2000 (2K) and 2K server.

When did I say anything about Beta. Any OEM isn't going to sell a computer with Windows 11 before MS releases a stable version to them.

Dru2 · Jul 19, 2021

johnlgalt said:
You, sirrah, are a braver man than I am.

#$%^@#$%@#$ ME. Just ... no.

It didn't kill me. And as I said, I've run every OS since 95b so why skip ME :)

Dru2 · Jul 19, 2021

Winuser said:
When did I say anything about Beta. Any OEM isn't going to sell a computer with Windows 11 before MS releases a stable version to them.

That top portion before your quote should have been deleted (as I just did). That said, "preinstall" threw me for a loop. It's all good though, plus the post isn't only specific to you. :)

Winuser · Jul 19, 2021

Dru2 said:
It didn't kill me. And as I said, I've run every OS since 95b so why skip ME :)

My first computer running Windows was a Packard Bell 386 with Windows for Work Group 3.1. Windows ME was one Windows OS that I completely skipped. I tried Windows Vista and hated it so much I switched to Mandrake Linux. I stayed on Mandrake until I became a tester for Windows 7.

Haydon · Jul 19, 2021

Computer manufacturers may make a couple of dozens pre-production computers, either fully or partially assembled, to do their pre-production testing. Then they are under competitive pressure to manufacture and sell their first batch of 1,000 computers. There is always a (small) risk that not everything is done right in those first batch computers (or in any first batch of anything mass produced, for that matter).

Take the numbers with a grain of salt, but the issue goes actually to the gist of this thread, see my OP.
Would you buy from the first batch of 1,000 computers so you can enjoy a new computer with a better OS as early as possible?
Or would you rather wait to avoid early production mistakes, and buy from the 2nd, 3rd, ...., 100th batch?

NavyLCDR · Jul 19, 2021

Haydon said:
Take the numbers with a grain of salt, but the issue goes actually to the gist of this thread, see my OP.
Would you buy from the first batch of 1,000 computers so you can enjoy a new computer with a better OS as early as possible?
Or wou

I would never buy a computer because it had a new OS on it. I would buy a new computer because I felt like I really needed an upgrade in hardware, not the OS. My choice of computer would be based upon if it had the hardware combination that I wanted at a price I wanted to pay for it. Not the OS. Now, if all of the planets lined up just right and I just happened to be looking to upgrade or replace and I found the combination of hardware that I wanted at a price I was willing to pay, then the fact that it was in a batch of the first 1,000 new computers with the new OS on it would not have any bearing whatsoever in my decision.

More than likely, if I was looking anyway early on in the Windows 11 release cycle, I would probably get a better price on a Windows 10, pay less, and just upgrade it to Windows 11. Two exact same computers side by side, with a $100 discount for Windows 10 instead of Windows 11 - I'm taking the discount.

fafhrd · Jul 19, 2021

I don't seem to need to upgrade yet...

johnlgalt · Jul 19, 2021

Winuser said:
My first computer running Windows was a Packard Bell 386 with Windows for Work Group 3.11. Windows ME was one Windows OS that I completely skipped. I tried Windows Vista and hated it so much I switched to Mandrake Linux. I stayed on Mandrake until I became a tester for Windows 7.

Haydon said:
Computer manufacturers may make a couple of dozens pre-production computers, either fully or partially assembled, to do their pre-production testing. Then they are under competitive pressure to manufacture and sell their first batch of 1,000 computers. There is always a (small) risk that not everything is done right in those first batch computers (or in any first batch of anything mass produced, for that matter).

Take the numbers with a grain of salt, but the issue goes actually to the gist of this thread, see my OP.
Would you buy from the first batch of 1,000 computers so you can enjoy a new computer with a better OS as early as possible?
Or would you rather wait to avoid early production mistakes, and buy from the 2nd, 3rd, ...., 100th batch?

And, pray tell, how do you know if the computer you buy at a local brick and mortar are part of any given batch?

NavyLCDR said:
I would never buy a computer because it had a new OS on it. I would buy a new computer because I felt like I really needed an upgrade in hardware, not the OS. My choice of computer would be based upon if it had the hardware combination that I wanted at a price I wanted to pay for it. Not the OS. Now, if all of the planets lined up just right and I just happened to be looking to upgrade or replace and I found the combination of hardware that I wanted at a price I was willing to pay, then the fact that it was in a batch of the first 1,000 new computers with the new OS on it would not have any bearing whatsoever in my decision.

More than likely, if I was looking anyway early on in the Windows 11 release cycle, I would probably get a better price on a Windows 10, pay less, and just upgrade it to Windows 11. Two exact same computers side by side, with a $100 discount for Windows 10 instead of Windows 11 - I'm taking the discount.

^^^^^^^^^^. I built my rig last year not because of what Windows might need, but because what I did need. I ran a 9 year old Core i7 965 EE on an X58 platform before that because I didn't need an upgrade. And neither did I have any real issues with running Windows 10 on a BIOS based mobo with a CPU that wasn't officially supported with no UEFI. And as I mentioned before, I build, not buy desktops. Laptops, I do tend to buy - but the Framework laptop is an interesting concept, as are some of the newest hybrid tablet laptop things, so I'm really not sure what my next portable device will be - but I do know that it won't be one I buy any time soon because mine is still under extended warranty.

fafhrd said:
I don't seem to need to upgrade yet...

Yeah, almost anyone can try out the Dev builds, Microsoft said themselves that the requirements are being relaxed. So no one has a reason to upgrade right now.

Haydon · Jul 19, 2021

Nobody buys hardware as such, nobody buys an OS as such. Everybody buys benefits in some form.

A gamer, for example, gets a much better value for his hardware $ than for his OS $.

There are other users with different values too, though. A new Windows 11 computer with a discrete TPM gives a very good security value, better than anything mass produced before.

Just that anything new gives me teething angst. As I posted before, I waited until 3 years after Windows 10 RTM. Wonder if history repeats

NavyLCDR · Jul 19, 2021

Haydon said:
There are other users with different values too, though. A new Windows 11 computer with a discrete TPM gives a very good security value, better than anything mass produced before.

I would have to disagree. I don't see any security benefits to Windows 11 over Windows 10 in the software. Windows 11 may check for certain security features such as TPM 2.0, but I don't see anything in Windows 11 that makes it more secure than Windows 10 as long as the user sets up Windows 10 properly. In other words, I don't see any extra security features in Windows 11 that are not also available in Windows 10. It's just Windows 11 normal setup routine makes some security mandatory for a routine setup, whereas those same features are in Windows 10, just not made mandatory by Windows 10 setup. And the hardware checks that Windows 11 performs, so far, only occur during the normal setup routine. Apply a Windows 11 image using DISM manually and all those hardware checks are bypassed and Windows 11 still continues to run without them.

PerpetualCycle · Jul 19, 2021

^ This. At least at this point. Maybe in the future 11 may have improved security but right now it is the same as Windows 10. In fact, it may be be less secure while it is in this alpha stage.

Haydon · Jul 19, 2021

Sure, alpha, beta, and even early batches right after RTM can have early bugs. That's the whole point of this thread, balancing early bugs against early benefits.

I think there is a misconception about Windows 11 security, it is not based on software, it is based on firmware or better still, on hardware. Of course, this is after Windows 11 RTM, or better still, after the early bugs have been ironed out.

NavyLCDR · Jul 19, 2021

Haydon said:
Sure, alpha, beta, and even early batches right after RTM can have early bugs. That's the whole point of this thread, balancing early bugs against early benefits.

I think there is a misconception about Windows 11 security, it is not based on software, it is based on firmware or better still, on hardware. Of course, this is after Windows 11 RTM, or better still, after the early bugs have been ironed out.

Which is nothing new. Windows 10 has that security feature too. Windows 10 will use TPM just as much as Windows 11 does. The only difference is that Windows 11 setup uses file appraiserres.dll to check for TPM 2.0. The appraiserres.dll file included with Windows 10 does not.

@Haydon, read this:

Trusted Platform Module Technology Overview - Windows Security

Learn about the Trusted Platform Module (TPM) and how Windows uses it for access control and authentication.

docs.microsoft.com

Starting with Windows 10, the operating system automatically initializes and takes ownership of the TPM.

Dru2 · Jul 19, 2021

Winuser said:
My first computer running Windows was a Packard Bell 386 with Windows for Work Group 3.1. Windows ME was one Windows OS that I completely skipped. I tried Windows Vista and hated it so much I switched to Mandrake Linux. I stayed on Mandrake until I became a tester for Windows 7.

You don't know how bad something is until you experience it. Anyway back in the day when I was in the military hanging around the LAN shop we always checked out the latest Windows operating systems. In fact it was the LAN crew that helped me build my first desktop.

Anyway, that's my experience. YMMV :wink: