Solved A little help finding backup software

Buddy said:

Beating my brains out Googling and not finding joy yet.

Here are the features I'd like:
-Backup not restricted to certain directories or file types
-Saved at destination as native file type, not a compressed backup.
-Encryption not needed
-Destinations include any attached drive and Google Drive.
-Use Google Drive as a backup destination, not as sync.
I can do that through Google Drive for Desktop. Besides, sync isn't really backup.
-Don't need to back up to or from network drives
-Back up contains latest versions of everything. History kept for changes, rename, deletion, etc.
-Ability to define and save multiple backup jobs.
-Ability to run multiple backup jobs at once.
For instance, main backup to desktop drive, same to portable drive, different list to Google Drive. Maybe on different schedules.
-If I choose to back up a drive image, I'm glad to do that with a separate solution focused on that
-Don't mind paying, but I don't want an annual subscription

I'm not really interested in a big solution like Acronis, however capable. Just something simple and focused. Perfect Backup looked promising, until I realized it writes a proprietary backup file, not the native file format.

Thanks, all.

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I didn't read the whole thread, but since I don't see a 'Solved' mark, I throw in my 2 cents.

I think you need at least 2 or likely more backup apps to cover your long list of diverse needs. Backup apps come with different features, backup app x does features y,z well, backup app a does features a,b well, etc. There is a huge number of backup apps, I am certain that you can put together a solution, just that the solution won't be found in a single backup app.

For example, I myself use 2 backup apps:

1) Macrium Reflect for 'imaging' and for 'file and folder backup'.

And that's in the face of some people here saying that while 'imaging' is useful, 'file and folder backup' is useless. Useless for them, that is, but very useful for me, so useful that I do file and folder backup using a second backup app

2) File and folder backup using RoboCopy

Good luck!

BrianS said:

I (a noob) have stumbled into a nerd world where I dont understand and nerds dont understand why I dont understand. By default nerds dont have the patience to educate noobs - fact of life.

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I do have that patience. So, please let me know when you've finished manufacturing an affordable drive that can simulate a crash WITHOUT having to physically replace it, and then I'll sign the paperwork that'll allow me to use your product sample to run some tests.

BrianS said:

For example - a typical dead end - I discovered in the small print that cloning my C drive to an external HDD is fine BUT to recovered this to a new replacement HDD would need me to remove my ext hdd from its caddy and insert it within the PC. Microsoft dont allow restore from a USB drive (obvious when you think about it I suppose. So to go that far I might as well buy another identical HDD and insert it into the spare D slot. THEY DONT TELL YOU THIS.

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That's one of the reasons why there exist various 3rd party software solutions, and why it pays off getting yourself educated about them so you can compare.

BrianS said:

I think I may just carry on till that ultimate crash (maybe 5 years hence say - my last one was 8 years, by which time W12 will be in your face and my PC will be deprecated anyway), carefully saving data externally. My Apps can be re loaded. Time to move on and get a life or whats left of it the way we are going.

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You give up already? Whatever happened to patience?

BrianS said:

For me this has highlighted a glaring error in the Microsoft PC monopoly - the total failure to provide a user friendly system backup/restore - no factory reset button. The Media/Industry have utterly failed in their duty of care to the domestic consumers (not applicable to commercials of course).

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I feel your pain. But I found a working method to reduce that pain, and I know that it works because I feel less pain now than I did at the time when I was still a noob. I don't claim to be an expert, though. But I will admit that I am a bit of a specialist at giving stuff up. (No joke.)

BrianS said:

@fixer
For me this has highlighted a glaring error in the Microsoft PC monopoly - the total failure to provide a user friendly system backup/restore - no factory reset button. The Media/Industry have utterly failed in their duty of care to the domestic consumers (not applicable to commercials of course).

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Definition of monopoly:

"The exclusive possession or control of the supply of or trade in a commodity or service."

So we have Linux and various other pc operating systems - so how does Microsoft have a monopoly?
Nobody is forcing you to use it as a domestic customer.


Definition of "Duty of Care"
"A moral or legal obligation to ensure the safety or well-being of others".

How does that apply to an OS. No legal or moral obligation other than complying with basic consumer laws e.g. if you pay for a licence, it must work.

Find me a single instance where MS is morally or legally obliged to provide a backup/restore system?

In fact, I am glad MS do not provide a decent backup/restore, and we rely on quality 3rd parties which, indeed, is MS's advice anyway.
If there were bugs, it would takes months to give partial fixes.

As far as Linux and various other PC OSs are concerned, those are all blatantly incapable to compete directly with Windows, for the vast majority of PC users anyway. Monopoly is a big word, but in the end you can't simply deny that it's still bordering on the edge. From the strictly legal point of view, Windows usually does work, but for a lot of reasons each one of which can obviously be debated, it's still only a half-baked OS. Then again, the day when it stops being a half-baked OS, that will be the day when people should start to TRULY be worried.

He confused a pure monopoly with monopoly power.

The UK regulators consider that if two firms combine to create a market share of 25% or more of a specific market, the merger may be referred to the Competition Commission ( formerly called the monopoly and mergers commission ) , and may be prohibited.

SIW2 said:

He confused a pure monopoly with monopoly power.

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The word can also be used as a metaphor. The two main important reasons why I don't actually even consider Linux to be a true alternative choice to Windows are the lack of modern hardware support in Linux, and the fact that available software choices on Linux versus Windows easily compares to how I still remember available app choices on Windows Phone 8.1 versus Android Lollipop around the time when Windows 10 came out.

kado897 said:

have a look at FreeFieSync FreeFileSync It is quite complicated to learn but I think you can get it to do everything on your list. I've been using it for years.

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Would you know how it compares to Karen's Replicator?

Haydon said:

I didn't read the whole thread, but since I don't see a 'Solved' mark, I throw in my 2 cents.

Good luck!

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Thanks, Haydon.

The whole thread reminds me of threads on BobIsTheOilGuy comparing automotive oils or filters. A deep dive into a rabbit hole. Not dissing anyone who posted, quite the opposite-thanks to all for sharing. It's just that I'm a long way from being fully informed. And I will be, eventually. Because as much as I love the performance of the SSD in my new computer, I want to be prepared in case it craps out. Or if any of the 37 other potential disaster scenarios unfolds.

Now, to your reccs. I'm leaning pretty strongly toward your two-solution idea - one for imaging, one for file backup. And I'm suspecting I'll add in some periodic redundancy, since I've got a bunch of underused desktop and portable drives, not to mention some really big USB sticks and SD cards. And I'm trying to wrap my head around an appropriate role for Google Drive. (Thanks to all who mentioned what they've done with OneDrive. I'll think through your concept, but how to implement it on Google Drive. OneDrive has been exorcised from this computer, much to my relief.)

SIW2 said:

He confused a pure monopoly with monopoly power.

The UK regulators consider that if two firms combine to create a market share of 25% or more of a specific market, the merger may be referred to the Competition Commission ( formerly called the monopoly and mergers commission ) , and may be prohibited.

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I do not see how that really applies here in UK as MS is not a British Company. Even the EU tried to take them on demanding N versions be made available. The EU won inasmuch it forced a choice but most companies just ignored it.

The US have split up companies that had a virtual stranglehold on the world as a result of the Sherman anti-trust laws (over 100 years old)

The most notable case in history was when the US split up the original Rockefeller oil company "Standard Oil" into the "Seven Sisters"
Esso, Gulf, Texaco, Chevron, Mobil, Shell and BP.

But how does that apply to technical companies:

This is an interesting read:-


particularly

"Today, the companies of Big Tech (a nebulous term, but often understood to include Facebook, Apple, Amazon, Microsoft, and Google at the least) face a similar backlash, or colloquially, “techlash” over their various perceived monopolies. However, Big Tech is not a monopoly per se, that is, the companies comprising Big Tech have not agreed to cooperate rather than compete, to their benefit and market detriment. In fact, in recent years they have started attempting to step on each other’s toes in some arenas (e.g., cloud computing services)."

"The other existing interpretation of the Sherman Act under which they might be dissolved, the “rule of reason” used to measure and divide Standard Oil, has also failed to flag Big Tech as monopolistic, despite clear dominance in various market sectors and some arguably anticompetitive practices (e.g., Facebook’s purchase of Instagram and WhatsApp or the Apple App Store’s requirements and fees). This market dominance was achieved predominately through superior service and/or significant benefits from network effects. And because many of the services are provided to the consumer free in return for the ability to advertise to them and utilize personal data, consumers are not being harmed by artificially inflated prices."

My layman's conclusion is US will really only do anything meaty if the near monopolies are counter to US National and International interests, as was certainly the case a hundred+ years ago with Standard Oil (or of course if public "anger" affect their votes LOL).

As the old Brit joke goes "How come there is only one Monopolies andMergers commission?" - LOL.

Buddy said:

I'm leaning pretty strongly toward your two-solution idea - one for imaging, one for file backup.

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I already told you about that idea, in my 1st reply to this thread.

Buddy said:

Would you know how it compares to Karen's Replicator?

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No, I've never used Karen's replicator. FFS is basically a compare and copy changes system with the optional ability to store versions. There is no compression into a container like some other File & folder backups, the destination becomes a mirror of the source and if you need to you can just copy individual files back, You can sync from multiple sources in the one job or you can do each separately. It is well supported and you get about one update with fixes a month. It is free but there is what they call a donation edition with a few extra features. If you are interested there are many YouTube videos on the subject. At one time it got a bad rep with PUPs in the installer but that is all cleaned up now.

kado897 said:

No, I've never used Karen's replicator. FFS is basically a compare and copy changes system with the optional ability to store versions. There is no compression into a container like some other File & folder backups, the destination becomes a mirror of the source and if you need to you can just copy individual files back, You can sync from multiple sources in the one job or you can do each separately. It is well supported and you get about one update with fixes a month. It is free but there is what they call a donation edition with a few extra features. If you are interested there are many YouTube videos on the subject. At one time it got a bad rep with PUPs in the installer but that is all cleaned up now.

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Thanks a bunch. That sounds a lot like what I'd like to have. I'll look into it.

What kind of PUP - adware or malware?

hdmi said:

I already told you about that idea, in my 1st reply to this thread.

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Correct, you did indeed. And I thank you and now appreciate more of what you posted.

And I now need to read back through the whole thread, all 92 posts, since I'm a bit less uninformed than I was at the outset.

That will be a lot easier than one I follow on the infotainment head unit on 2020-2023 Subaru Outback that is currently 437 pages and 8,739 posts.

Hi @Buddy you opened up a can of worms
pls remind me or point to link about your issues with Onedrive - this worries me as its lurking in my system without my consent, although AFAIK it hasnt sent anything to the cloud , although a free 5G came with my ug to W11. I want to keep control of my system, I knew where I was with W8.1 but I dont trust devious background services in W11

Buddy said:

Thanks a bunch. That sounds a lot like what I'd like to have. I'll look into it.

What kind of PUP - adware or malware?

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Adware, but as I say that has been cleaned up for a number of years now.

Hi @hdmi
I found I can get a new 1TB HDD for my D Drive slot for £30 identical to my C Drive, so way to go at that price. I believe with Macrium Reflect that I can make a n image of system files and load straight onto this new D Drive. Macrium also offers a recovery booter for this in the event of a crash.
So in my simple mind can I expect to start up and boot direct to this D Drive and carry on as normal? In other words I have two of the same Win set up, to choose to run?
Would that include all my Apps and their setting? Email passwords

Sounds too good to be true? If it was that simple everybody would be doing it

BrianS said:

Hi @hdmi
I found I can get a new 1TB HDD for my D Drive slot for £30 identical to my C Drive, so way to go at that price. I believe with Macrium Reflect that I can make a n image of system files and load straight onto this new D Drive. Macrium also offers a recovery booter for this in the event of a crash.
So in my simple mind can I expect to start up and boot direct to this D Drive and carry on as normal? In other words I have two of the same Win set up, to choose to run?
Would that include all my Apps and their setting? Email passwords

Sounds too good to be true? If it was that simple everybody would be doing it

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You could do that if you use MR to clone your drive but in normal use an image file is created on the backup drive and this is not bootable. You need to use the recovery environment to restore the image to the original or a replacement drive.

BrianS said:

Hi @hdmi
I found I can get a new 1TB HDD for my D Drive slot for £30 identical to my C Drive, so way to go at that price. I believe with Macrium Reflect that I can make a n image of system files and load straight onto this new D Drive. Macrium also offers a recovery booter for this in the event of a crash.
So in my simple mind can I expect to start up and boot direct to this D Drive and carry on as normal? In other words I have two of the same Win set up, to choose to run?
Would that include all my Apps and their setting? Email passwords

Sounds too good to be true? If it was that simple everybody would be doing it

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It doesn't necessarily have to be identical. You could easily decide to upgrade to an affordable 2.5 inch SATA SSD or switch to a larger capacity HDD if that's what you prefer instead, it also doesn't have to be that much more expensive either way. With a desktop PC, to swap two different physical drives around, you can merely swap the SATA cables' connectors, either on the motherboard or at the back end of the drives, whichever of these two methods is more convenient to do. But yeah, AFAIK most motherboards have a Boot Order section under Boot Options or something similar in the UEFI settings so, there you can choose which drive you want the PC to boot from, which should make things even more convenient still, although I should also note that different SATA ports on a PC motherboard can be different as for their hardware-specific limitations. If you already know the basics of how to build a PC, then you should be fine. Consult the user manuals of your hardware products before you proceed. I can see in your system specs that you have an Acer desktop PC, usually it means that the UEFI settings can be brought up by pressing and holding down the F2 key or Del key (depending on what exact model you have from Acer) during boot. Also remember that you may have to temporarily disable Secure Boot in the UEFI settings to be able to boot from anything besides your main drive [the drive that your PC normally boots from when it boots into Windows].

Finally, yes, with Macrium Reflect you can also make an image file of this whole drive or of one or more (or all) partitions that are present on this drive, in such a way that said image file will be created on another drive that has enough space. Another strategy would be cloning the drive, which is the process of copying the entire contents of a drive onto another drive (sector-by-sector), and, depending what tools you use for cloning, either these two drives have to have identical storage capacity or the destination drive has to have bigger storage capacity than the source drive. So, it's possible to avoid the process that is known as restoring whole disk contents from an image file. There also exist hardware solutions like SATA HDD/SSD docks with USB, some of which can also be used to clone drives, and some of them can also conveniently make multiple clones at once. But you can use the "recovery booter" that you mention, to restore from an image file. Whether you choose Acronis or Macrium or both. Both are bootable ISO files so, both can be copied onto the same USB stick if the USB stick has Ventoy already on it. Ventoy makes you lazy. lol

cereberus said:

I do not see how that really applies here in UK as MS is not a British Company.

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Trying to illustrate the diffence between a pure monoply and monopoly power.

BrianS said:

The Win 7 backup solution has never been very reliable even on Win 7. That's why MS now recommend you find a third party solution.

Wow such Microsoft arrogance - scandalous

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Better tell that to MS. They are the ones that are telling people to stop using it and go with a third party program.