Another new Dell laptop with overheat issue, do I return it or keep it?


FJRMarty

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My 11 year old Dell quit, so daughter bought me a new one. I am not a gamer, so consider that I use the laptop to read and respond to emails, watch the occasional movie or YouTube video, and flip through favorite websites. I'll spend an hour or 3 on the laptop, then let it rest for a while, then spend some time again. Power mode is set to ‘Balanced.’ I use an external screen and keyboard so the lid is normally closed.
This new Dell 5510 is almost 30 days old. It updated to W11 the first time I turned it on. A couple of weeks ago I noticed that after around 2 hours of inactivity with the lid closed that the fan was roaring. I lifted the lid, no change except the laptop keyboard, screen, bottom of the laptop, and the top of my wooden desk were ridiculously hot. I lifted the lid but no keystroke or mouse movement changed anything. I figured out I had to hold the power button for 10-15 seconds which shut the laptop down. It started back up fine after I waited a minute, and the fan took 30 seconds to quickly cool it down and go quiet, and everything all worked fine.

This happened again, so I contacted Dell Support. I wasn’t aware of this overheating / hybrid S3 / etc., issue. I had trouble explaining the issue (or they couldn't understand me) over 3 Support attempts that failed to identify the glitch. Following a third overheating event, a Dell Support person spent nearly an hour remotely making changes to my settings and BIOS. I didn't catch everything they did, but I noticed the 'Put the computer to sleep:' is set to Never on both battery and plugged in. The display does turn off after 20 minutes. And I was instructed to turn the laptop off if I was going to spend any time away from it.

Member glasskuter suggested I install temperature monitoring software to see what is going on. 1st was Core Temp - I have it residing in the Taskbar showing the hottest of the 4 cores. 'Resting' with no activity it reads 38-42C. Then while typing this I have Thunderbird email and 5 websites open, including SiriusXM, and it reads 47-54C. Anything I do, move the mouse, open another web page, switch to one of the web pages, etc., it momentarily spikes to 67-82C.

Then I installed HWMonitor. Just starting this program spikes some or all the cores to 90-95C momentarily. With those same 5 web pages and Thunderbird loaded, if I clear the Min/Max view the temps start at 47-68C, with occasional spikes to 78-82C. Eventually the 4 cores will get to 96C with nothing obviously changing and me doing nothing but watching. During this the 8 CPU percentages run from 9% to 26%. If I clear the Min/Max again and walk away, it will get to 95-96C in a few minutes. If I close everything and leave it at just the desktop it stays at 46-56C - but what good is that?

Using HWMonitor to watch I ran AIDA64 Extreme for a stress test. It ran the quad-cores up to 100% while the CPUs ran up to 95C, and were throttled down from 26-32% to 0-13% with "Overheating Detected!" over about 1 minute. I'm not sure what all that means, I'm not sure how long AIDA64 would run on its own cooking the cores, and I'm not sure if I can generate a meaningful report from this program.

So will my new i7 quad-core become a lump of coal by Christmas, or is it typical of today's seemingly fragile systems? From web searches - thanks again glasskuter - it appears that Dell (mostly XPS), Lenovo, and others share this hybrid sleep / overheat issue. I saw posts dating as far back as 2015!! Dell’s solution is just don’t let the computer sleep, but I’m still seeing 95C spikes when doing simple things like loading web pages, email, or starting Windows Explorer.

Any thoughts or comments from the hardware folks?
 
Windows Build/Version
W11 22000.348

My Computer

System One

  • OS
    Windows 11
    Computer type
    Laptop
    Manufacturer/Model
    Dell Inspiron 5410
    CPU
    11th Gen Intel(R) Core(TM) i5-11320H @ up to 4.5GHz
    Motherboard
    Present
    Memory
    16GB, 2x8GB, DDR4, 3200MHz
    Graphics Card(s)
    Intel(R) Iris(R) Xe Graphics
    Sound Card
    Realtek Audio
    Monitor(s) Displays
    HP 24mh (ext), 14.0-inch FHD (1920 x 1080)
    Screen Resolution
    1920x1080
    Hard Drives
    512GB NVMe BC711_NVMe SK hynix
    Backups - 500GB SimpleDrive (ext), WD 750GB (ext)
    Case
    Slim
    Cooling
    Kootek Cooling Pad
    Keyboard
    Logitech K360 (ext)
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    Logitech 510
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    941.93
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    Defender, Malwarebytes

BunnyJ

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Gee.. that is running very hot, IMO. 95c is just at the max temp for that processor and I would be concerned about that. The support or lack of from Dell isn't shocking and I would consider sending it back if possible. No laptop should run that hot if new.,

The other option is taking it to a shop and have it evaluated.
HTH
 

My Computer

System One

  • OS
    Windows 11 Home 25120.1000 - Dev Channel
    Computer type
    PC/Desktop
    Manufacturer/Model
    Banna Junior 7000 - X Series
    CPU
    Ryzen 7 2700X
    Motherboard
    Asus Crosshair VII Hero, X470
    Memory
    Gskill 32GB, 16GBX2 PC3000
    Graphics Card(s)
    GeForce GTX TITAN X 12GB
    Sound Card
    Realtek (R) Audio
    Monitor(s) Displays
    ASUS VP28UQG 28" 4K, Viotek 32" 1080p
    Screen Resolution
    4K 3840 x 2160
    Hard Drives
    Primary Samsung 256 SSD
    PSU
    EVGA BQ 700w 80+ Bronze
    Case
    NZXT 510
    Cooling
    Stock AMD cooler
    Keyboard
    Corsair
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    Amazon Generic with Cord
    Internet Speed
    Download: 350.50 mbps Upload: 12.02 mbps Ping: 15ms
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barman58

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All I can say with this is it does sound familiar - similar to an issue of another member with overheating - in this case it was cured by a firmware update that was included with a regular update to Windows 11

actual solution is noted here ...


Maybe something similar is happening with you at least it may give you some "ammunition" for your discussions with Dell - changes in Win11 has caused overheating for others that has be cured with an update
 

My Computers

System One System Two

  • OS
    Windows 10 Pro x64 [Latest Release Preview]
    Computer type
    PC/Desktop
    Manufacturer/Model
    Chillblast to my design
    CPU
    Ryzen 9 5950X, 4.9GHz
    Motherboard
    Asus Prime X570-Pro Motherboard
    Memory
    64GB DDR4 3200MHz
    Graphics Card(s)
    4GB NVIDIA GEFORCE GTX 1650 Ti - HDMI, DP
    Sound Card
    On motherboard Feeding SPDiF 5.1 system
    Monitor(s) Displays
    32" UHD 32 Bit HDR Monitor + 43" UHD 4K 32Bit HDR TV
    Screen Resolution
    2 x 3840 x 2160
    Hard Drives
    1TB M2 SSD OS, 500GB Fast Access SSD, 2 x 8TB Data + Various Externals from 1TB to 4TB, 10TB NAS
    PSU
    NZXT C750 80 PLUS Gold 750W Modular PSU
    Case
    Chillblast Silent Workstation PC Case - Black
    Cooling
    NZXT Kraken X63 280mm CPU Cooler, Quiet Case fans Fan
    Keyboard
    Wireless Logitec MX Keys + K830 [Depending on where I'm Sat]
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    Wireless Logitec - MX Master 3 + M570 Trackball
    Internet Speed
    72 MB Down 18.5 MB Up
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    Latest Chrome
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    BitDefender Total Security 2021
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    Also run...
    Laptop - Quad 8GB - Windows 10 Pro x64 HP 15.2"
    Nexus 7 Android tablet [x2]
    Samsung 10.2" tablet
    Blackview 10.2 Tablet
    Sony Z3 Android Smartphone
    Samsung S9 Plus Smartphone
    Samsung Note S20
    Wacom Pro Medium Pen Pad
    Wacom Pro Small Pen Pad
    Wacom ExpressKey Remote
    Loopdeck+ Graphics Controller
    Shuttle Pro v2 Control Pad
  • Operating System
    Windows 10 Pro x64 [Latest release]
    Computer type
    Laptop
    Manufacturer/Model
    Dell XPS 17 9700
    CPU
    i7 10750H
    Motherboard
    Stock
    Memory
    32 GB
    Graphics card(s)
    Stock Intel + GTX 1650 Ti
    Sound Card
    Stock 4 speaker
    Monitor(s) Displays
    Stock 17"
    Screen Resolution
    3840 x 2160 HDR touchscreen
    Hard Drives
    2TB M2 NVMe
    PSU
    Stock
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    Stock Aluminium / Carbon Fibre
    Cooling
    Stock + 2 fan cooling pad
    Mouse
    Stock Trackpad +Logi Mx Master 3
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    Stock Illuminated + Logi - MX Keys
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    72 MB Down 18.5 MB Up
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FJRMarty

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Well, not sure if this is good or bad news, but I just got an email from Dell Tech Support. They are sending me an empty box with a label in 2-3 days. Want to guess why? So I get to break in a 'new' laptop in a couple of weeks.

Thanks for your response. Based on the symptoms & troubleshooting results, it is evident that components internal to your system need to be replaced. Since your system has Return-to-Depot warranty, it needs to be sent to our Repair Center and the turn-around-time for the repair process would be 7-10 Business days.
Etc., etc....


I guess this post is moot. Could be removed. I'll be happy to report on the 'new' one in 2 weeks.
 

My Computer

System One

  • OS
    Windows 11
    Computer type
    Laptop
    Manufacturer/Model
    Dell Inspiron 5410
    CPU
    11th Gen Intel(R) Core(TM) i5-11320H @ up to 4.5GHz
    Motherboard
    Present
    Memory
    16GB, 2x8GB, DDR4, 3200MHz
    Graphics Card(s)
    Intel(R) Iris(R) Xe Graphics
    Sound Card
    Realtek Audio
    Monitor(s) Displays
    HP 24mh (ext), 14.0-inch FHD (1920 x 1080)
    Screen Resolution
    1920x1080
    Hard Drives
    512GB NVMe BC711_NVMe SK hynix
    Backups - 500GB SimpleDrive (ext), WD 750GB (ext)
    Case
    Slim
    Cooling
    Kootek Cooling Pad
    Keyboard
    Logitech K360 (ext)
    Mouse
    Logitech 510
    Internet Speed
    941.93
    Browser
    Firefox
    Antivirus
    Defender, Malwarebytes

Devlin1888

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Well, not sure if this is good or bad news, but I just got an email from Dell Tech Support. They are sending me an empty box with a label in 2-3 days. Want to guess why? So I get to break in a 'new' laptop in a couple of weeks.

Thanks for your response. Based on the symptoms & troubleshooting results, it is evident that components internal to your system need to be replaced. Since your system has Return-to-Depot warranty, it needs to be sent to our Repair Center and the turn-around-time for the repair process would be 7-10 Business days.
Etc., etc....


I guess this post is moot. Could be removed. I'll be happy to report on the 'new' one in 2 weeks.
Its all good, Just leave the thread/post here as is and should you need to update again just add it in in a few weeks, If theres any futher support required then im sure someone will pick it back up:)
Hopefully theres no issues with the new one!
 

My Computer

System One

  • OS
    Windows 11 Education Build 22483.1011 Developer Build
    Computer type
    PC/Desktop
    Manufacturer/Model
    Custom
    CPU
    i7 10700k@5.2
    Motherboard
    Gigabyte Gaming X Z490
    Memory
    16GB Viper Steel Series 3200mhz
    Graphics Card(s)
    Gigabyte RTX2070 Super X OC Windforce
    Monitor(s) Displays
    ASUS TUF Gaming 3840X2160 Benq Gl2250 1920x1080
    Screen Resolution
    4K/1600/1440/1080
    Hard Drives
    M.2 - ADATA SX8200 Pro 1TB
    SSD - Samsung 860 evo
    PSU
    Corsair 650w
    Case
    NZXT S340 Elite
    Cooling
    Cooler Master Hyper 212 RGB Black Edition
    Keyboard
    Razer Ornata Chroma
    Mouse
    Steel Series Rival 710
    Internet Speed
    50mbs
    Browser
    Opera GX
    Antivirus
    Windows Defender
    Other Info
    Logitech g29+Pedals+Shifter

Bree

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This new Dell 5510 is almost 30 days old.....
Based on the symptoms & troubleshooting results, it is evident that components internal to your system need to be replaced. Since your system has Return-to-Depot warranty, it needs to be sent to our Repair Center....

Is that the Dell Inspiron 5510 or the Latittude 5510? From the processor in your specs I'm guessing its the Inspiron. It does sound like a rogue machine. Let's hope the next one is better behaved.
 

My Computers

System One System Two

  • OS
    Windows 11 Home
    Computer type
    Laptop
    Manufacturer/Model
    Acer Aspire 3 A315-23
    CPU
    AMD Athlon Silver 3050U
    Memory
    8GB
    Graphics Card(s)
    Radeon Graphics
    Monitor(s) Displays
    laptop screen
    Screen Resolution
    1366x768 native resolution, up to 2560x1440 with Radeon Virtual Super Resolution
    Hard Drives
    1TB HDD
    Browser
    Edge, Firefox
    Antivirus
    Defender
    Other Info
    fully 'Windows 11 ready' laptop. Windows 10 C: partition migrated from my old unsupported 'main machine' then upgraded to 11. A test migration ran Insider builds for 2 months. When 11 was released on 5th October it was re-imaged back to 10 and was offered the upgrade in Windows Update on 20th October.


    My SYSTEM THREE is a Dell Latitude 5410, i7-10610U, 32GB RAM, 512GB ssd, Windows 11 Pro.
  • Operating System
    Windows 11 Pro
    Computer type
    Laptop
    Manufacturer/Model
    Dell Lattitude E4310
    CPU
    i5 M 520
    Motherboard
    0T6M8G
    Memory
    4GB
    Screen Resolution
    1366x768
    Hard Drives
    500GB HDD
    Browser
    Firefox, Edge
    Antivirus
    Defender
    Other Info
    unsupported machine: Legacy bios, MBR, TPM 1.2, upgraded from W10 to W11 using W10/W11 hybrid install media workaround.


    My SYSTEM THREE is a Dell Latitude 5410, i7-10610U, 32GB RAM, 512GB ssd, Windows 11 Pro.

glasskuter

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You made the right decision. So, Dell is going to repair it when they should be replacing it. Typical Dell crappy support. If it comes back and still overheats, demand a new replacement and threaten to sue if they don't comply. It's a real shame that a company that once had some of the best support available has become what it has. I hope it all turns out well for you.
 

My Computers

System One System Two

  • OS
    Windows 11 Pro 21H2 22000.675
    Computer type
    PC/Desktop
    Manufacturer/Model
    Dell Optiplex 7080
    CPU
    i9-10900
    Memory
    32 gb
    Monitor(s) Displays
    Benq 27
    Screen Resolution
    2560x1440
    Hard Drives
    256 m.2 2230-256+1 tb hdd
    PSU
    500w
    Case
    MT
    Cooling
    Dell Premium
    Keyboard
    Logitech wired
    Mouse
    Logitech wireless
    Browser
    Firefox
    Antivirus
    Defender+MWB Premium
  • Operating System
    Windows 10 Pro 21H2
    Computer type
    PC/Desktop
    Manufacturer/Model
    Dell Optiplex 9020
    CPU
    i7-4770
    Memory
    24 gb
    Screen Resolution
    2560x1440
    Hard Drives
    256 gb Toshiba BG4 M.2 NVE SSB and 1 tb hdd
    PSU
    500w
    Case
    MT
    Cooling
    standard
    Mouse
    Logitech wireless
    Keyboard
    Logitech wired
    Antivirus
    Defender+MWB Premium

FJRMarty

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The conspiracy theorist in me thinks the nearly perfect, cool-running laptop exists, but it is VERY EXPEN$IVE and not marketable, so only the 0.0005% who really pointedly factually complain get one. :wink:

But more likely, they toss my old one into the precious metal shredder and ship me a duplicate replacement with 'Sleep' turned off. After all, tech support phone calls are cheap. :sneaky:

Yes Bree, Inspiron.
glasskuter, thanks for the wisdom!

Marty
 

My Computer

System One

  • OS
    Windows 11
    Computer type
    Laptop
    Manufacturer/Model
    Dell Inspiron 5410
    CPU
    11th Gen Intel(R) Core(TM) i5-11320H @ up to 4.5GHz
    Motherboard
    Present
    Memory
    16GB, 2x8GB, DDR4, 3200MHz
    Graphics Card(s)
    Intel(R) Iris(R) Xe Graphics
    Sound Card
    Realtek Audio
    Monitor(s) Displays
    HP 24mh (ext), 14.0-inch FHD (1920 x 1080)
    Screen Resolution
    1920x1080
    Hard Drives
    512GB NVMe BC711_NVMe SK hynix
    Backups - 500GB SimpleDrive (ext), WD 750GB (ext)
    Case
    Slim
    Cooling
    Kootek Cooling Pad
    Keyboard
    Logitech K360 (ext)
    Mouse
    Logitech 510
    Internet Speed
    941.93
    Browser
    Firefox
    Antivirus
    Defender, Malwarebytes

Almighty1

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This is considered normal for Dell notebooks as my XPS 15 9570 which is on a i8750H runs like this even with new high-end thermal paste added:

1637817577883.png

Ofcourse I run a pretty high load on the system:
1637817693281.png
Dell has been known to have bad thermal design.
 

My Computer

System One

  • OS
    Windows XP/7/8/8.1/10/11, Linux, Android, FreeBSD Unix
    Computer type
    Laptop
    Manufacturer/Model
    Dell XPS 15 9570
    CPU
    Intel® Core™ i7-8750H 8th Gen Processor 2.2Ghz up to 4.1Ghz
    Motherboard
    Dell XPS 15 9570
    Memory
    32GB using 2x16GB modules
    Graphics Card(s)
    Intel UHD 630 & NVIDIA GeForce GTX 1050 Ti with 4GB DDR5
    Sound Card
    Realtek ALC3266-CG
    Monitor(s) Displays
    15.6" 4K Touch UltraHD 3840x2160 made by Sharp
    Screen Resolution
    3840x2160
    Hard Drives
    Toshiba KXG60ZNV1T02 NVMe 1024GB/1TB SSD
    PSU
    Dell XPS 15 9570
    Case
    Dell XPS 15 9570
    Cooling
    Stock
    Keyboard
    Stock
    Mouse
    SwitftPoint ProPoint
    Internet Speed
    Comcast/XFinity 1.44Gbps/42.5Mbps
    Browser
    Microsoft EDGE (Chromium based) & Google Chrome
    Antivirus
    Windows Defender that came with Windows

barman58

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I at one time dealt extensively with Dell for Workstations and laptops and found them very reliable and and good to deal with when they did have an issue - as a lot of these Devices would end up being used all over the world, the support structure was a major factor in using Dell for our supplier. With those that went to Dell for issues the returned item always had a different Serial number than the unit sent back. so replacement was the normal "repair"

Of course it may be different now or for one off units or the turnaround speed was down to the fact that I had my own assigned Dell Sales/Returns agent handling things. Often the replacement part or unit was shipped before the old was collected.
 

My Computers

System One System Two

  • OS
    Windows 10 Pro x64 [Latest Release Preview]
    Computer type
    PC/Desktop
    Manufacturer/Model
    Chillblast to my design
    CPU
    Ryzen 9 5950X, 4.9GHz
    Motherboard
    Asus Prime X570-Pro Motherboard
    Memory
    64GB DDR4 3200MHz
    Graphics Card(s)
    4GB NVIDIA GEFORCE GTX 1650 Ti - HDMI, DP
    Sound Card
    On motherboard Feeding SPDiF 5.1 system
    Monitor(s) Displays
    32" UHD 32 Bit HDR Monitor + 43" UHD 4K 32Bit HDR TV
    Screen Resolution
    2 x 3840 x 2160
    Hard Drives
    1TB M2 SSD OS, 500GB Fast Access SSD, 2 x 8TB Data + Various Externals from 1TB to 4TB, 10TB NAS
    PSU
    NZXT C750 80 PLUS Gold 750W Modular PSU
    Case
    Chillblast Silent Workstation PC Case - Black
    Cooling
    NZXT Kraken X63 280mm CPU Cooler, Quiet Case fans Fan
    Keyboard
    Wireless Logitec MX Keys + K830 [Depending on where I'm Sat]
    Mouse
    Wireless Logitec - MX Master 3 + M570 Trackball
    Internet Speed
    72 MB Down 18.5 MB Up
    Browser
    Latest Chrome
    Antivirus
    BitDefender Total Security 2021
    Other Info
    Also run...
    Laptop - Quad 8GB - Windows 10 Pro x64 HP 15.2"
    Nexus 7 Android tablet [x2]
    Samsung 10.2" tablet
    Blackview 10.2 Tablet
    Sony Z3 Android Smartphone
    Samsung S9 Plus Smartphone
    Samsung Note S20
    Wacom Pro Medium Pen Pad
    Wacom Pro Small Pen Pad
    Wacom ExpressKey Remote
    Loopdeck+ Graphics Controller
    Shuttle Pro v2 Control Pad
  • Operating System
    Windows 10 Pro x64 [Latest release]
    Computer type
    Laptop
    Manufacturer/Model
    Dell XPS 17 9700
    CPU
    i7 10750H
    Motherboard
    Stock
    Memory
    32 GB
    Graphics card(s)
    Stock Intel + GTX 1650 Ti
    Sound Card
    Stock 4 speaker
    Monitor(s) Displays
    Stock 17"
    Screen Resolution
    3840 x 2160 HDR touchscreen
    Hard Drives
    2TB M2 NVMe
    PSU
    Stock
    Case
    Stock Aluminium / Carbon Fibre
    Cooling
    Stock + 2 fan cooling pad
    Mouse
    Stock Trackpad +Logi Mx Master 3
    Keyboard
    Stock Illuminated + Logi - MX Keys
    Internet Speed
    72 MB Down 18.5 MB Up
    Browser
    Latest Chrome
    Antivirus
    BitDefender Total Security 2021

SIW2

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It could be different for corporate/business customers. They are not impressed with dell support at Gamers nexus youtube channel.
 

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SIW2

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This is what I got running i5 8400 flat out after 40 mins.

The cryorig fan is quite near its max of 1600rpm with cpu at 100% and it keeps the temps down very well. Most of the time it runs about 560rpm. Ideal match for this cpu.

Only the cryorig cooler on the cpu and the bog standard rear case fan, nothing else. Is the small cryorig M9i. For a more power guzzling cpu you might want something bigger, this one is great for the i5.

cpu-100.jpg
 
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Almighty1

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Dell over the years has changed as they are not the same company they were before. They were known as Dell Corp then they went private as a company again after I believe Silver Lake partners took them private, then they bought EMC and became known as Dell Technologies. They also didn't own Alienware before which was what their XPS (eXtreme Performance Systems) competed against but since we are talking about notebooks/laptops, they are all actually made by Compal and Quanta in Taiwan and China and Dell really only adds in the specific config you want like the CPU and memory and HDD/SSD so ofcourse within 30 days, they will just replace the entire machine but after 30 days, they will just swap the mainboard out which is not hard to do yourself.

@SIW2 - It seems you are talking about a desktop which is different than a notebook computer which has limitations for cooling.
 

My Computer

System One

  • OS
    Windows XP/7/8/8.1/10/11, Linux, Android, FreeBSD Unix
    Computer type
    Laptop
    Manufacturer/Model
    Dell XPS 15 9570
    CPU
    Intel® Core™ i7-8750H 8th Gen Processor 2.2Ghz up to 4.1Ghz
    Motherboard
    Dell XPS 15 9570
    Memory
    32GB using 2x16GB modules
    Graphics Card(s)
    Intel UHD 630 & NVIDIA GeForce GTX 1050 Ti with 4GB DDR5
    Sound Card
    Realtek ALC3266-CG
    Monitor(s) Displays
    15.6" 4K Touch UltraHD 3840x2160 made by Sharp
    Screen Resolution
    3840x2160
    Hard Drives
    Toshiba KXG60ZNV1T02 NVMe 1024GB/1TB SSD
    PSU
    Dell XPS 15 9570
    Case
    Dell XPS 15 9570
    Cooling
    Stock
    Keyboard
    Stock
    Mouse
    SwitftPoint ProPoint
    Internet Speed
    Comcast/XFinity 1.44Gbps/42.5Mbps
    Browser
    Microsoft EDGE (Chromium based) & Google Chrome
    Antivirus
    Windows Defender that came with Windows

The Pool Man

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Dell over the years has changed as they are not the same company they were before.

Although I've been switched to PCs for about 6 years now -- I still feel kinda like a noob. I just wanted to share that once I became aware of the China factor, American brand names completely lost their appeal. Maybe not for the reason you think.

Like Apple, Dell and HP have offices in America with terrifically over-paid tools in them. And so when you buy an 'American' laptop you're really buying all their people, offices, advertising, and 'prestige' ON TOP OF a Chinese laptop. Meanwhile if you buy an Asus or Lenovo, you're buying Chinese. Sure, they've got their terrifically over-paid tools as well, but I think they're leaner/meaner operations.

Once you remove the American middleman, it's my belief the Chinese can build better for less.
 

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    11 if on this site

Almighty1

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Windows XP/7/8/8.1/10/11, Linux, Android, FreeBSD Unix
Although I've been switched to PCs for about 6 years now -- I still feel kinda like a noob. I just wanted to share that once I became aware of the China factor, American brand names completely lost their appeal. Maybe not for the reason you think.

Like Apple, Dell and HP have offices in America with terrifically over-paid tools in them. And so when you buy an 'American' laptop you're really buying all their people, offices, advertising, and 'prestige' ON TOP OF a Chinese laptop. Meanwhile if you buy an Asus or Lenovo, you're buying Chinese. Sure, they've got their terrifically over-paid tools as well, but I think they're leaner/meaner operations.

Once you remove the American middleman, it's my belief the Chinese can build better for less.
Build quality is only one part of the puzzle. Lenovo which makes ThinkPad's that they bought from IBM are high-end machines. For Dell, you would have to get a Precision Worksation to be comparable. One thing about Dell is they release BIOS updates while ASUS which can make a decent machine does not so plenty of 2012 machines had only 1 or 2 BIOS updates and that was only within the first 2 years of the product. Dell would still release monthly BIOS updates when there are problems 2+ years later. Atleast unlike HP and Lenovo, many parts that can be used on the Dell do not have to be whitelisted before it will work in the system even though it fits.
 

My Computer

System One

  • OS
    Windows XP/7/8/8.1/10/11, Linux, Android, FreeBSD Unix
    Computer type
    Laptop
    Manufacturer/Model
    Dell XPS 15 9570
    CPU
    Intel® Core™ i7-8750H 8th Gen Processor 2.2Ghz up to 4.1Ghz
    Motherboard
    Dell XPS 15 9570
    Memory
    32GB using 2x16GB modules
    Graphics Card(s)
    Intel UHD 630 & NVIDIA GeForce GTX 1050 Ti with 4GB DDR5
    Sound Card
    Realtek ALC3266-CG
    Monitor(s) Displays
    15.6" 4K Touch UltraHD 3840x2160 made by Sharp
    Screen Resolution
    3840x2160
    Hard Drives
    Toshiba KXG60ZNV1T02 NVMe 1024GB/1TB SSD
    PSU
    Dell XPS 15 9570
    Case
    Dell XPS 15 9570
    Cooling
    Stock
    Keyboard
    Stock
    Mouse
    SwitftPoint ProPoint
    Internet Speed
    Comcast/XFinity 1.44Gbps/42.5Mbps
    Browser
    Microsoft EDGE (Chromium based) & Google Chrome
    Antivirus
    Windows Defender that came with Windows

glasskuter

Well-known member
Power User
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Local time
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1,571
Location
The Lone Star State of Texas
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Windows 11 Pro 21H2 22000.675
many parts that can be used on the Dell do not have to be whitelisted
Dell's proprietary stuff is a bunch of crap. I recently purchased a new Dell that ran too hot. When Dell wouldn't help me I tried to upgrade my cooling to Noctua. I remembered Dell's propensity for non-standard fan headers so that was the first thing I checked and mine were standard. Noctua worked great to lower temps but threw out fan errors at boot. I jumped through hoops for two weeks only to find out the problem was Noctua PWM fans feature a minimum speed of 300rpm to allow for quiet operation when your CPU is at idle state and doesn’t require higher cooling performance. The Dell mainboard displayed the “CPU fan error” during the booting process because the fan speed was below a certain level. So now, Dell may use standard fan wiring, but their bios keeps you from running non-OEM fans.

As soon as I put the Dell cooler back in, the error became "case fan error" so I put the original exhaust fan back in. I ended up having to buy premium cooling from Dell which lowered temps but not nearly as much as the Noctua cooler & fans did. Now I'm stuck with a brand new Noctua setup I can't use. The same thing goes for their damned power supplies. Years ago, although they used proprietary power supplies you could still get an ATX to fit inside the case & use adapter cables. Well, not anymore. Now they've made them narrower so if you want a bigger power supply you are locked into using their expensive replacement parts or having your power supply outside the case.
 

My Computers

System One System Two

  • OS
    Windows 11 Pro 21H2 22000.675
    Computer type
    PC/Desktop
    Manufacturer/Model
    Dell Optiplex 7080
    CPU
    i9-10900
    Memory
    32 gb
    Monitor(s) Displays
    Benq 27
    Screen Resolution
    2560x1440
    Hard Drives
    256 m.2 2230-256+1 tb hdd
    PSU
    500w
    Case
    MT
    Cooling
    Dell Premium
    Keyboard
    Logitech wired
    Mouse
    Logitech wireless
    Browser
    Firefox
    Antivirus
    Defender+MWB Premium
  • Operating System
    Windows 10 Pro 21H2
    Computer type
    PC/Desktop
    Manufacturer/Model
    Dell Optiplex 9020
    CPU
    i7-4770
    Memory
    24 gb
    Screen Resolution
    2560x1440
    Hard Drives
    256 gb Toshiba BG4 M.2 NVE SSB and 1 tb hdd
    PSU
    500w
    Case
    MT
    Cooling
    standard
    Mouse
    Logitech wireless
    Keyboard
    Logitech wired
    Antivirus
    Defender+MWB Premium

BunnyJ

Python Programmer
Pro User
VIP
Local time
10:52 AM
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5,073
Location
USA TN
OS
Windows 11 Home 25120.1000 - Dev Channel
Dell's proprietary stuff is a bunch of crap. I recently purchased a new Dell that ran too hot. When Dell wouldn't help me I tried to upgrade my cooling to Noctua. I remembered Dell's propensity for non-standard fan headers so that was the first thing I checked and mine were standard. Noctua worked great to lower temps but threw out fan errors at boot. I jumped through hoops for two weeks only to find out the problem was Noctua PWM fans feature a minimum speed of 300rpm to allow for quiet operation when your CPU is at idle state and doesn’t require higher cooling performance. The Dell mainboard displayed the “CPU fan error” during the booting process because the fan speed was below a certain level. So now, Dell may use standard fan wiring, but their bios keeps you from running non-OEM fans.

As soon as I put the Dell cooler back in, the error became "case fan error" so I put the original exhaust fan back in. I ended up having to buy premium cooling from Dell which lowered temps but not nearly as much as the Noctua cooler & fans did. Now I'm stuck with a brand new Noctua setup I can't use. The same thing goes for their damned power supplies. Years ago, although they used proprietary power supplies you could still get an ATX to fit inside the case & use adapter cables. Well, not anymore. Now they've made them narrower so if you want a bigger power supply you are locked into using their expensive replacement parts or having your power supply outside the case.
That sucks.. if a company acts like that I wouldn't buy any of their products.
 

My Computer

System One

  • OS
    Windows 11 Home 25120.1000 - Dev Channel
    Computer type
    PC/Desktop
    Manufacturer/Model
    Banna Junior 7000 - X Series
    CPU
    Ryzen 7 2700X
    Motherboard
    Asus Crosshair VII Hero, X470
    Memory
    Gskill 32GB, 16GBX2 PC3000
    Graphics Card(s)
    GeForce GTX TITAN X 12GB
    Sound Card
    Realtek (R) Audio
    Monitor(s) Displays
    ASUS VP28UQG 28" 4K, Viotek 32" 1080p
    Screen Resolution
    4K 3840 x 2160
    Hard Drives
    Primary Samsung 256 SSD
    PSU
    EVGA BQ 700w 80+ Bronze
    Case
    NZXT 510
    Cooling
    Stock AMD cooler
    Keyboard
    Corsair
    Mouse
    Amazon Generic with Cord
    Internet Speed
    Download: 350.50 mbps Upload: 12.02 mbps Ping: 15ms
    Browser
    Firefox, Chrome and Edge
    Antivirus
    MS - Defender

clam1952

Well-known member
Member
VIP
Local time
3:52 PM
Posts
429
Location
Crewe, Cheshire, UK
OS
Windows 11 21H2 OS Build 22621.1
Hmm I have managed to fit a Corsair Modular 450 Watt SFX psu inside a Dell Inspiron 3881 small desktop, no need for anything outside the case! SFX are about two thirds the size of an ATX PSU.
 

My Computers

System One System Two

  • OS
    Windows 11 21H2 OS Build 22621.1
    Computer type
    PC/Desktop
    Manufacturer/Model
    Self Build
    CPU
    AMD Ryzen 7 3800X
    Motherboard
    Asus PRIME B350-PLUS
    Memory
    16GB Corsair Vengeance LPX DDR4 @3000Mhz
    Graphics Card(s)
    ASUS - GeForce RTX 3070 Ti 8 GB TUF GAMING OC
    Sound Card
    On Board Realtec
    Monitor(s) Displays
    Acer KA241
    Screen Resolution
    1920 x 1080 @60Hz
    Hard Drives
    240GB PNY CS900 SSD - OS
    2 x 1TB Crucial MX500 SSD
    1 x 500GB Crucial MX300 SSD
    2TB Seagate ST2000DM001-1ER164
    2TB Seagate ST2000DM008-2FR102
    4TB Seagate ST4000DM000-1F2168
    PSU
    750 Watt Corsair TX750 Plus
    Case
    Cooler Master 690 III
    Cooling
    Akasa AK98 5 Case Fans
    Keyboard
    Logitech K270 - wireless
    Mouse
    Logitech - M185 wireless
    Internet Speed
    BT Fibre 75 Mbps
    Browser
    Firefox
    Antivirus
    Windows Defender
    Other Info
    Use hardware KVM to switch monitors on three PCs and software (input director) to use mouse and keyboard on all 4 PCs.
  • Operating System
    Windows 11 Pro 21H2 build 22000.675
    Computer type
    PC/Desktop
    Manufacturer/Model
    Dell Inspiron 3881 - modified with SFX PSU fitted internally
    CPU
    Intel i5 - 10400
    Motherboard
    Dell 032w55 version A00
    Memory
    16GB of HyperX Fury @ 2133 Mhz
    Graphics card(s)
    EVGA 6GB GTX 1060.
    Sound Card
    Builtin
    Monitor(s) Displays
    ACER KA241
    Screen Resolution
    1920x 1080 @60Hz
    Hard Drives
    256GB SK hynix NVMe
    1TB Western Digital WD10EZEX-75WN4A1
    PSU
    Modular 450 Watt Corsair SF450 Platinum ( Mod to replace the Dell 265 Watt PSU)
    Case
    Inspiron Small Desktop
    Cooling
    Dell stock cooler
    Mouse
    Dell
    Keyboard
    Dell
    Internet Speed
    BT Fibre 75 Mbps
    Browser
    Firefox
    Antivirus
    Windows Defender
    Other Info
    Use hardware KVM to switch monitors on three PCs and software (input director) to use mouse and keyboard on all 4 PCs.

Almighty1

Well-known member
Member
VIP
Local time
7:52 AM
Posts
664
Location
San Francisco, California USA
OS
Windows XP/7/8/8.1/10/11, Linux, Android, FreeBSD Unix
Dell's proprietary stuff is a bunch of crap. I recently purchased a new Dell that ran too hot. When Dell wouldn't help me I tried to upgrade my cooling to Noctua. I remembered Dell's propensity for non-standard fan headers so that was the first thing I checked and mine were standard. Noctua worked great to lower temps but threw out fan errors at boot. I jumped through hoops for two weeks only to find out the problem was Noctua PWM fans feature a minimum speed of 300rpm to allow for quiet operation when your CPU is at idle state and doesn’t require higher cooling performance. The Dell mainboard displayed the “CPU fan error” during the booting process because the fan speed was below a certain level. So now, Dell may use standard fan wiring, but their bios keeps you from running non-OEM fans.

As soon as I put the Dell cooler back in, the error became "case fan error" so I put the original exhaust fan back in. I ended up having to buy premium cooling from Dell which lowered temps but not nearly as much as the Noctua cooler & fans did. Now I'm stuck with a brand new Noctua setup I can't use. The same thing goes for their damned power supplies. Years ago, although they used proprietary power supplies you could still get an ATX to fit inside the case & use adapter cables. Well, not anymore. Now they've made them narrower so if you want a bigger power supply you are locked into using their expensive replacement parts or having your power supply outside the case.
Forgot about that since I remember people complaining about things like that because they have to be different or else people would be buying new cases and just use the parts. What I meant earlier was with Wireless cards, you can buy any WiFi card and it will work in a Dell. With HP and IBM/Lenovo, unless that part is whitelisted in the BIOS, it will not work at all so basically they all do the same thing one way or another since if you want flexibility, you should really build your own system. IBM are supposedly the best in compatibility because remember they are the one that is the reference standard and everything else is just trying to be 100% compatible with it. When it comes to notebooks, it would be hard to build your own so you have to just be careful and select whatever has the most flexibility while meeting your needs and ofcourse the upgrade options are limited. As far as PSUs go, you have to see what the specs are and then find a replacement for it which was even the case when PC Power & Cooling had power supplies, there were some that were made for Dell's specifically among other brands as @clam1952 had mentioned. Otherwise before you upgrade anything, research and see if someone already done it before otherwise you can be the first to try it like I did back in the day of the Inspiron 8200 when the Latitude C840 and the Precision forgot the model all shared the same motherboard, only the BIOS was different. I was the first one to use memory modules to bring the system to 4GB when the specs says 2GB and also changed from the GeForce to the Quadro without any risk since if it didn't work, I would just ship the parts back to Dell and get my money back as they included shipping both ways.
 

My Computer

System One

  • OS
    Windows XP/7/8/8.1/10/11, Linux, Android, FreeBSD Unix
    Computer type
    Laptop
    Manufacturer/Model
    Dell XPS 15 9570
    CPU
    Intel® Core™ i7-8750H 8th Gen Processor 2.2Ghz up to 4.1Ghz
    Motherboard
    Dell XPS 15 9570
    Memory
    32GB using 2x16GB modules
    Graphics Card(s)
    Intel UHD 630 & NVIDIA GeForce GTX 1050 Ti with 4GB DDR5
    Sound Card
    Realtek ALC3266-CG
    Monitor(s) Displays
    15.6" 4K Touch UltraHD 3840x2160 made by Sharp
    Screen Resolution
    3840x2160
    Hard Drives
    Toshiba KXG60ZNV1T02 NVMe 1024GB/1TB SSD
    PSU
    Dell XPS 15 9570
    Case
    Dell XPS 15 9570
    Cooling
    Stock
    Keyboard
    Stock
    Mouse
    SwitftPoint ProPoint
    Internet Speed
    Comcast/XFinity 1.44Gbps/42.5Mbps
    Browser
    Microsoft EDGE (Chromium based) & Google Chrome
    Antivirus
    Windows Defender that came with Windows

jonnied12

New member
Local time
10:52 AM
Posts
21
OS
Windows 10
Dell's proprietary stuff is a bunch of crap. I recently purchased a new Dell that ran too hot. When Dell wouldn't help me I tried to upgrade my cooling to Noctua. I remembered Dell's propensity for non-standard fan headers so that was the first thing I checked and mine were standard. Noctua worked great to lower temps but threw out fan errors at boot. I jumped through hoops for two weeks only to find out the problem was Noctua PWM fans feature a minimum speed of 300rpm to allow for quiet operation when your CPU is at idle state and doesn’t require higher cooling performance. The Dell mainboard displayed the “CPU fan error” during the booting process because the fan speed was below a certain level. So now, Dell may use standard fan wiring, but their bios keeps you from running non-OEM fans.

As soon as I put the Dell cooler back in, the error became "case fan error" so I put the original exhaust fan back in. I ended up having to buy premium cooling from Dell which lowered temps but not nearly as much as the Noctua cooler & fans did. Now I'm stuck with a brand new Noctua setup I can't use. The same thing goes for their damned power supplies. Years ago, although they used proprietary power supplies you could still get an ATX to fit inside the case & use adapter cables. Well, not anymore. Now they've made them narrower so if you want a bigger power supply you are locked into using their expensive replacement parts or having your power supply outside the case.
Sounds like Dell is adopting Apple's business model. :wink:
 

My Computer

System One

  • OS
    Windows 10
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