Is my reasoning wishful thinking for OS upgrade?

jaylob4 · Nov 11, 2024

I'm about to upgrade from Win 10 Pro to Win 11.

My intention is/was to choose a clean/fresh install if given a choice, I don't know if Win updates of the OS gives me that.

My reason for doing this is because while I have reasonable AV and a couple of other programs, I believe some nasties are not being taken care of, a fresh install of the OS would achieve this for me.

However I do have a couple of programs which have worked fine under Win 7 and Win 10 and would miss them.

My thinking then is do the update, ( to Win 11 ), keep all settings/files/folders and if the programs work within the new environment/OS, they should still work if I do a clean sweep so to speak and reinstall them.

Is that sound or wishful thinking, my approach?

oldschool · Nov 11, 2024

jaylob4 said:
I do have a couple of programs which have worked fine under Win 7 and Win 10 and would miss them.

AFAIK, programs that work on 10 should work on 11. Clean install is the best bet upgrading to 24H2. Doing so via Windows Update is a dicey proposition, as many people, including myself, can testify*.

*But note I reverted to 23H2 until the bugs are worked out in the new version.

cereberus · Nov 11, 2024

jaylob4 said:
I'm about to upgrade from Win 10 Pro to Win 11.

My intention is/was to choose a clean/fresh install if given a choice, I don't know if Win updates of the OS gives me that.

My reason for doing this is because while I have reasonable AV and a couple of other programs, I believe some nasties are not being taken care of, a fresh install of the OS would achieve this for me.

However I do have a couple of programs which have worked fine under Win 7 and Win 10 and would miss them.

My thinking then is do the update, ( to Win 11 ), keep all settings/files/folders and if the programs work within the new environment/OS, they should still work if I do a clean sweep so to speak and reinstall them.

Is that sound or wishful thinking, my approach?

If the programs work fine on Windows 10, they will work fine in Windows 11.

As a rule, I would advise to just upgrade - no need to faff around with clean installs.

Worst that can happen is the upgrade does not go to plan and you waste a bit of time and LATER MIGHT need to do a clean install.

However, if you do have some infections, then clean installing is probably the right way to go. Have you used a tool like malwarebytes to see what might be lurking on pc?

Make an image backup first of course before upgrading or clean installing.

Also, backup all your drivers {see tutorials), as clean installing can be a problem if you do not have all the right drivers (W10 drivers work fine on W11).

Also, are you sure you have all the program installation apps, and all activation codes where needed?

jaylob4 · Nov 12, 2024

cereberus said:
If the programs work fine on Windows 10, they will work fine in Windows 11.

As a rule, I would advise to just upgrade - no need to faff around with clean installs.

Worst that can happen is the upgrade does not go to plan and you waste a bit of time and LATER MIGHT need to do a clean install.

However, if you do have some infections, then clean installing is probably the right way to go. Have you used a tool like malwarebytes to see what might be lurking on pc?

Make an image backup first of course before upgrading or clean installing.

Also, backup all your drivers {see tutorials), as clean installing can be a problem if you do not have all the right drivers (W10 drivers work fine on W11).

Also, are you sure you have all the program installation apps, and all activation codes where needed?

Thank you, that's encouraging.

You mentioned this and it stuck in my head and it made sense.

I use free versions of Avast and Malwarebytes for watching over me/PC.

I use to use a firewall program called "Fire Zone" I think.

One MS update and it disappeared, that was few years ago, never bothered to find out why or re-install, I rely on MSs own firewall protection.

While my scans come up clean, I have a niggly feeling some key loggers lurk.

I looked into removing them but the solutions were a little hard for me to follow.

I have a up to date cloned Win 10 OS on an external SSD so will do an inhouse update to Win 11, make sure the programs I wish to keep/work do, then a fresh install.

The worry for me is all my data and files are on other storage devices, they might be infected, the moment I start copying over to my new OS, reinfection starts over again.

I of course maybe anxious needlessly.

I will read the driver tutorials.

jaylob4 · Nov 12, 2024

oldschool said:
AFAIK, programs that work on 10 should work on 11. Clean install is the best bet upgrading to 24H2. Doing so via Windows Update is a dicey proposition, as many people, including myself, can testify*.

*But note I reverted to 23H2 until the bugs are worked out in the new version.

Thank you, I will bear it in mind, I have been Googling, others are saying an inhouse update to Win 11 have been troublesome for them.

But since Win 11s introduction there has been 2-3 major version updates to it and have to wonder the troubles spoken of were down to early versions/teething issues and inhouse updating is now stable and trouble free as much as it can be?

I don't know but had wondered.

cereberus · Nov 12, 2024

jaylob4 said:
Thank you, I will bear it in mind, I have been Googling, others are saying an inhouse update to Win 11 have been troublesome for them.

But since Win 11s introduction there has been 2-3 major version updates to it and have to wonder the troubles spoken of were down to early versions/teething issues and inhouse updating is now stable and trouble free as much as it can be?

I don't know but had wondered.

It is too easy to get jaundiced by internet comments and get an erroneous sense of perpective.

Remember (vocal) minority of people only post when they get issues - the vast majority who update and have no issues rarely post to say that.

Literally tens of millions of people upgrade with no issues. The media would slaughter MS if upgrades were a major issue.

You are sort of right to say all upgrades have some issues between major versions but the number of truly significant issues upgrading from Windows 10 to Windows 11 is a really tiny fraction of the issues when upgrading from Windows 7 or 8.

Really Windows 11 is mostly a gui update with the engine under the bonnet not changing that much.

jaylob4 · Nov 12, 2024

cereberus said:
It is too easy to get jaundiced by internet comments and get an erroneous sense of perpective.

Remember (vocal) minority of people only post when they get issues - the vast majority who update and have no issues rarely post to say that.

Literally tens of millions of people upgrade with no issues. The media would slaughter MS if upgrades were a major issue.

You are sort of right to say all upgrades have some issues between major versions but the number of truly significant issues upgrading from Windows 10 to Windows 11 is a really tiny fraction of the issues when upgrading from Windows 7 or 8.

Really Windows 11 is mostly a gui update with the engine under the bonnet not changing that much.

Thank you, that all makes sound logic to me.

jaylob4 · Nov 12, 2024

jaylob4 said:
I use to use a firewall program called "Fire Zone" I think.

One MS update and it disappeared, that was few years ago, never bothered to find out why or re-install, I rely on MSs own firewall protection.

Can't edit my original post 4.
It was Zone Alarm not Fire Zone. :doh:

Bree · Nov 12, 2024

jaylob4 said:
I do have a couple of programs which have worked fine under Win 7 and Win 10 and would miss them.

My thinking then is do the update, ( to Win 11 ), keep all settings/files/folders and if the programs work within the new environment/OS, they should still work if I do a clean sweep so to speak and reinstall them.

Is that sound or wishful thinking, my approach?

No, it sounds a sensible, if 'ultra-cautious' approach. Nothing wrong in being cautious though, I did much the same myself when upgrading my 'main machine' from W10 to W11. In my case I was also migrating my OS and all installed apps to a new 'W11-compatible' machine, which I had bought ahead of time. I had the luxury of doing the trial run for a couple of months with the Insider build on the new machine, leaving the original untouched.

jaylob4 said:
I use to use a firewall program called "Fire Zone" I think.

One MS update and it disappeared, that was few years ago, never bothered to find out why or re-install, I rely on MSs own firewall protection....
It was Zone Alarm not Fire Zone.

Almost everything that runs under W10 will run under W11, all my migrated software did (some of it very old). However, there are a very few cases where installed software won't be compatible with a Feature Update to the existing W10, or an upgrade to W11. In such cases Setup should tell you so and give you the option of letting it uninstall them, or cancelling the upgrade. Often updating the 'problem' app or driver to the latest version is all that's needed.

oldschool · Nov 12, 2024

jaylob4 said:
ut since Win 11s introduction there has been 2-3 major version updates to it and have to wonder the troubles spoken of were down to early versions/teething issues

I normally have no problems updating through Windows Update, but the most reported issues are updating to 24H2 specifically, since this is a major update. It is still buggy.

jaylob4 · Nov 12, 2024

Bree said:
No, it sounds a sensible, if 'ultra-cautious' approach. Nothing wrong in being cautious though, I did much the same myself when upgrading my 'main machine' from W10 to W11. In my case I was also migrating my OS and all installed apps to a new 'W11-compatible' machine, which I had bought ahead of time. I had the luxury of doing the trial run for a couple of months with the Insider build on the new machine, leaving the original untouched.

Almost everything that runs under W10 will run under W11, all my migrated software did (some of it very old). However, there are a very few cases where installed software won't be compatible with a Feature Update to the existing W10, or an upgrade to W11. In such cases Setup should tell you so and give you the option of letting it uninstall them, or cancelling the upgrade. Often updating the 'problem' app or driver to the latest version is all that's needed.

"30 + years ago, one of my first build Home PCs the property suffered a power surge, that event fried the MB, it took just a few days to buy and rebuild the PC, that was the simple part but no backups of data, it took around 2 months to recover as much of it from paper archives but there was loss.

Then I go do exactly the same all over, no back ups, another power surge took out the MB, a grown man wept, I learnt my lessons.

Since that time to present, yeah, ultra cautious is me, everything data backed up twice on external storage devices, I don't trust Cloud and why pay for storage.

Don't get me wrong, I know so many rate Cloud but it is not for me.

I use to regularly clone my OS but recently reading Window forums I will take another approach, a clone copy of the OS and regular system images which I have never done but shall learn.

I think most know the sense of back ups and do so but should anyone who might be reading who don't, create backups using whatever digital medium of your choice is of at least the data, it can be tedious and not always regular but all of that pails into insignificance against data loss.

Off me box I step.

jaylob4 · Nov 12, 2024

oldschool said:
I normally have no problems updating through Windows Update, but the most reported issues are updating to 24H2 specifically, since this is a major update. It is still buggy.

I read your previous and started reading elsewhere, if I've understood correctly I couldn't upgrade to 24H2 even if I wanted to without first upgrading to 23H2, so 23H2 it is for now.

oldschool · Nov 12, 2024

jaylob4 said:
I read your previous and started reading elsewhere, if I've understood correctly I couldn't upgrade to 24H2 even if I wanted to without first upgrading to 23H2, so 23H2 it is for now.

If that's the case, that's a good thing. 23H2 is definitely better than 24H2, which really doesn't offer much in the way of new, usable features.

cereberus · Nov 12, 2024

jaylob4 said:
I don't trust Cloud and why pay for storage.

MS and Google have the largest infrastructures for cloud with multiple redundancy built in. You can be certain they are less likely to lose data than youself unless you invest a lot in a decent backup infrastructure with RAID etc.

One of the key principles of backup is to back up critical data to at least two places, and one should preferably be offsite to cater for fire/flood/theft/cat walking across keyboard etc.

For many, offsite storage is not that practical a thing to do, and cloud storage is a good solution.

As for paying, if you really examine your data, you will find you probably only have a few GB of data that would be a disaster to lose out of the 100's of GB of data you have perhaps collected.

Even the stingiest of free cloud storage is 5GB and enough for really critical data.

In the end, how valuable is data to you personally?

I pay for MS365 for 6 persons, each with 1 TB of could space for £56 per year - less than the cost of 1 pt of beer per month. To me it is a nobrainer!

I totally ignore the bs privacy arguments - nothing is truly private any more if you use the internet - mobile phones are worse than Windows.

I am far more concerned about scammers using AI ish techniques to scam users - the scammers have never heard of Asimov's 3 laws of robotics!

spapakons · Nov 13, 2024

Well, I would backup the whole Windows disk, just in case, and then upgrade from Windows 10 to 11 24H2 directly. Even if you have a Windows 11 compliant PC, I would download the ISO, disconnect from the internet and then run Setup. I would connect to the internet only after the upgrade is complete. This is to prevent Windows Update messing with my working drivers and installing updates that might cause a BSOD. Yes, there is a hidden setting (you have to click the text to reveal it) not to use Windows Update during installation, but I doubt it makes any difference. Disconnecting from the internet is a safer bet. To improve chances of success, I would disable all startup applications and completely disable any third-party Antivirus/Antimalware so they won't interfere with the upgrade. Open Task Manager and go to the Startup section. I would also disable all non-Microsoft services, just in case. Press WIN+R to open a Run window and execute msconfig. Go to the Services tab, check the box to hide all Microsoft services and uncheck the boxes to disable all the others. Restart, disconnect from the internet, mount the ISO (aka Open with File Explorer) and run Setup to upgrade.

Winuser · Nov 13, 2024

jaylob4 said:
I don't trust Cloud and why pay for storage.

I like @cereberus and others have MS 365 with the included extra Cloud storage. What I like about it is that it allows me to have an affordable off site storage option. As for security, OneDrive does have a Personal Vault one can use for security. When I feel a need for extra security, I encrypt my files/folders with a program called Veracrypt.

jaylob4 · Nov 13, 2024

Winuser said:
I like @cereberus and others have MS 365 with the included extra Cloud storage. What I like about it is that it allows me to have an affordable off site storage option. As for security, OneDrive does have a Personal Vault one can use for security. When I feel a need for extra security, I encrypt my files/folders with a program called Veracrypt.

Thank you.

For me it is more a case I have back ups of my data and its safe and have little need to encrypt my data.

jaylob4 · Nov 13, 2024

spapakons said:
Well, I would backup the whole Windows disk, just in case, and then upgrade from Windows 10 to 11 24H2 directly. Even if you have a Windows 11 compliant PC, I would download the ISO, disconnect from the internet and then run Setup. I would connect to the internet only after the upgrade is complete. This is to prevent Windows Update messing with my working drivers and installing updates that might cause a BSOD. Yes, there is a hidden setting (you have to click the text to reveal it) not to use Windows Update during installation, but I doubt it makes any difference. Disconnecting from the internet is a safer bet. To improve chances of success, I would disable all startup applications and completely disable any third-party Antivirus/Antimalware so they won't interfere with the upgrade. Open Task Manager and go to the Startup section. I would also disable all non-Microsoft services, just in case. Press WIN+R to open a Run window and execute msconfig. Go to the Services tab, check the box to hide all Microsoft services and uncheck the boxes to disable all the others. Restart, disconnect from the internet, mount the ISO (aka Open with File Explorer) and run Setup to upgrade.

That all makes sense.

I will hold off upgrading to 24H2 for a while longer and stick to the 23H2 upgrade.

Is my reasoning wishful thinking for OS upgrade?

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