Lost Activation win11 pro

Megahertz · Jan 2, 2024

bobkn said:
PSU change?

I don't believe it.

So do I. How can Windows detect a PSU specs?

SIW2 · Jan 2, 2024

The situation so far:

Recently I suspected the psu was playing up on my main pc.

I moved the os disk from the main machine into my backup machine to use while sorting out the replacement psu.
here
I have swapped the os disk between machines many times before without issue.

Previously, it didnt matter. Upon realising it had been put in the backup machine, it understood it is a different machine and fetched the activation for the backup machine. Then when back in the main pc, it fetched the activation for the main machine.

That no longer happens since MS has made a boo boo. The result is that both machines have been deactivated.

SIW2 · Jan 2, 2024

Just spoken to MS support. The fellow said it won't activate automatically because it was originally a win7 key >win10>win11 .

He suggested if it was linked to a ms account it could be reactivated, but as it is a local account that can't be done. I said I had swapped the os disk between machines previously several times without any problem and it had always activated automatically. He said that is when they were allowing the older os keys to be used.

That ties in with the report on the Verge and neowin articles.

The only thing the ms call centre guy could suggest was buy a win11 key. Or in my case two, because both machines have been deactivated.

I mentioned the neowin article but he appeared unaware of it.

Bill Babonas, principal product manager of Windows, confirmed to The Verge that the company is aware of the problem and is looking into possible solutions:...You can continue using Windows 10 or 11 without activation for some time while Microsoft is working on resolving the problem.

That doesn't seem to have been passed on to the call centre people.

Microsoft confirms problems with Windows activation after blocking old keys

Microsoft confirmed that the company is aware of activation issues on some systems. The problem appeared shortly after Microsoft blocked old Windows 7 and 8 keys from activating Windows 10 and 11.

www.neowin.net

Microsoft investigating Windows activation issues after closing a key loophole

You might not be able to reactivate your Windows install after a hardware change.

www.theverge.com

from the verge article:

“Automatic activation would not work, so I contacted customer support. They told me because my Windows 10 license had been upgraded from Windows 7, and that they had discontinued support for Windows 7 product keys, that they could not continue my license for Windows 10 Pro after the hardware change,” says Mittelman in an email to The Verge. “They also acknowledged that changing the hardware is not a violation of the Windows license so there is no reason my Windows 10 license should be revoked or altered in any way.”

It is pretty obvious that swapping the os disk to another machine is a "hardware change" and so is tranferring the os to a different machine via cloning or any other method ( except perhaps using a sysprep generalised image). There wasn't a problem doing it before, but there is now.

Beware if you have the free upgrade activation.

Bree · Jan 2, 2024

SIW2 said:
Just spoken to MS support. The fellow said it won't activate because it was originally a win7 key >win10>win11....

I mentioned the neowin article but he appeared unaware of it.

That doesn't seem to have been passed on to the call centre people.

I've never had much respect for the technical knowledge of the first line MS support. About all that does seem to get passed on to them is a script that starts 'run scf /scannow'.

You and I have been discussing this over on Ten Forums too, and I've been trying my hardest to make activation fail when moving an OS from one machine to a new one. So far every PC I've moved Windows 10 or Windows 11 to has activated flawlessly.

To cast doubt on what MS told you, perhaps this is the most relevant of my tests. This particular Windows 10 Pro was an upgrade from the PC's OEM Windows 7, it only has a local account and the installed key is the generic Pro key. The PC I moved it to had previously obtained its own digital licence with a free upgrade to Windows 10 from its own OEM Windows 7. So, both the source and the destination were "...originally a win7 key >win10". If anything should fail, that should - but a few hours ago when I tested the move it activated perfectly.

As did Windows 11 moved to the same PC.

SIW2 · Jan 2, 2024

the installed key is the generic Pro key

That was also the case on both of my machines which have since been deactivated. I dont think what it displays there has much to do with it.

My experience matches those reported in the linked article. MS support was quite clear that it will no longer activate automatically since they have stopped the free upgrade.

I dont know why your experience is different.

I wonder if the upgrade when the OEM DM key was picked from the firmware or the oem:slp is somehow recorded differently by ms servers than if it was a retail key.

The few reports I have seen from people affected, it is pretty obvious they were enthusiaists so you can bet they were using desktops and retail keys.

Bree · Jan 2, 2024

SIW2 said:
I dont know why your experience is different.

I wonder if the upgrade when the DM key was picked up by e.g. win10 is somehow recorded differently by ms servers than if it was a retail key

No, I don't understand it either.

I don't think the activation servers record how any particular PC got its digital licence. So far I've activated W10 and W11 on two different PCs. The one in the example above was an OEM Windows 7 Pro PC that took the free upgrade to 10. When it's not being used for tests it runs Windows 11 23H2 (also activated).

The other PC that has successfully activated everything that I have put on it, W10 or W11 got its digital licence on the back of the 'Win 8.1 RTM Professional OEM:DM' that it originally came with (see post #10).

SIW2 · Jan 3, 2024

I don't think the activation servers record how any particular PC got its digital licence.

They must do. Otherwise they wouldnt know if it was a free upgrade or something else.

Megahertz · Jan 3, 2024

SIW2 said:
They must do. Otherwise they wouldnt know if it was a free upgrade or something else.

I agree.
Some people were using Win 7 or Win 8 keys to activate (free upgrade) Win 10 on brand new custom made computers. Once Win 10 had the digital license they were upgraded to win 11.

siliconbeaver · Jan 3, 2024

If true,

That completely changes my backup/maintenance policy. as mentioned, I has been using one OS disk/image to restore/install any PC requesting Windows 11 Pro.

Possibly the time is over, move back to old days the way I backup PC.

SIW2 said:
The situation so far:

Recently I suspected the psu was playing up on my main pc.

I moved the os disk from the main machine into my backup machine to use while sorting out the replacement psu.
here
I have swapped the os disk between machines many times before without issue.

Previously, it didnt matter. Upon realising it had been put in the backup machine, it understood it is a different machine and fetched the activation for the backup machine. Then when back in the main pc, it fetched the activation for the main machine.

That no longer happens since MS has made a boo boo. The result is that both machines have been deactivated.

Bree · Jan 3, 2024

SIW2 said:
I don't think the activation servers record how any particular PC got its digital licence.

Click to expand...

They must do. Otherwise they wouldnt know if it was a free upgrade or something else.

OK, well I've just tested moving my Windows 11 image to yet another PC, one that I know very well how it got its digital licence. It's a Lenovo Thinkpad T430 that came with W7 Pro and that I had deliberately left un-upgraded so that I could run activation test as/when MS finally turned off the free upgrade.

When that time came, it confirmed that activation by upgrade had been turned off and could not get a digital licence by an in-place upgrade to Windows 10.

However, this was just before MS closed the final loophole, and it then got (possibly the last ever) digital licence by changing its installed key to the PC's own OEM Windows 7 Pro CoA key.

OK, so I know exactly where this digital licence came from. Let's see if Microsoft's activation servers know (or care).

Apparently not.....

SIW2 · Jan 3, 2024

It helpfully suggests I go to the store to purchase win11. MS has deactivated both pcs, from ms store Win11 Pro x2 is much more than the cost of both pcs

siliconbeaver · Jan 3, 2024

I would think,
many OKs cannot prove OK True. But one Fail can prove Fail true.

Bree said:
OK, well I've just tested moving my Windows 11 image to yet another PC.

Bree · Jan 3, 2024

siliconbeaver said:
I would think,
many OKs cannot prove OK True. But one Fail can prove Fail true.

I would think that it shows that @SIW2 really has had a hardware change that was significant enough to give the PC a new hardware ID, one that does not have a digital licence of its own. Though why changing the PSU should be enough for that is beyond me.

SIW2 · Jan 3, 2024

I had clean installed that 23h2 on the main pc and it activated automatically. When the os disk was moved to the backup pc it decided it was a hardware change, which it is.

I have swapped the os disk between them several times previously. Every previous time it fetched the license for the backup machine. It doesnt do that now.

Both pcs had digital license via win7>win10>win11 free upgrade.

I think that was the problem and not the new psu on the main machine.

The logical conclusion is that the upgrade activation will not now survive a hardware change, though it previously did.

That conforms with what was reported in the verge and neowin articles, and also with what the support guy said.

I cant explain why Bree has been able to get away with it so far.

Porthos · Jan 3, 2024

SIW2 said:
Both pcs had digital license via win7>win10>win11 free upgrade.

I have swapped the os disk between them several times previously. Never had a problem before.

Do you have a spare drive to clean install Win 11 to see if it activates once connected to the net?
SIW, if you have tried this already forgive me I just skimmed the topic.

cereberus · Jan 3, 2024

Porthos said:
Do you have a spare drive to clean install Win 11 to see if it activates once connected to the net?
SIW, if you have tried this already forgive me I just skimmed the topic.

You do not need a spare drive - anybody can clean install in a virtual hard drive, and add a boot entry.

SIW2 · Jan 3, 2024

Porthos said:
Do you have a spare drive to clean install Win 11 to see if it activates once connected to the net?
SIW, if you have tried this already forgive me I just skimmed the topic.

I have tried. It gives a different message but still wont activate.

the moved os declares "hardware change"

a fresh install claims there is no license.

Both pcs have been deactivated.

Bree · Jan 3, 2024

SIW2 said:
Both pcs had digital license via win7>win10>win11 free upgrade.

I think that was the problem and not the new psu on the main machine.

The logical conclusion is that the upgrade activation will not now survive a hardware change, though it previously did.

That conforms with what was reported in the verge and neowin articles, and also with what the support guy said.

I cant explain why Bree has been able to get away with it so far.

I think the problem is not the 'win7>win10>win11 free upgrade' to get a digital licence. All my test were on hardware that had gone down that route.

SIW2 said:
the moved os delares "hardware change"

So did mine, every time. But then it activated from the new PC's own digital licence.

No, I think your problem is that somehow the PC's hardware ID really has changed, and that checking the activation servers now finds no digital licence for this new hardware ID. How that may have happened beats me....

SIW2 · Jan 3, 2024

The psu was changed on the main machine.

But the backup machine has had no changes at all. And the os disk was moved to the backup machine before the psu was changed on the main machine. So I had something to use while faffling about changing the psu.

No, I think your problem is that somehow the PC's hardware ID really has changed

You think the hardware id has mysteriously changed on both pcs ?

Megahertz · Jan 3, 2024

SIW2 said:
The psu was changed on the main machine.

But the backup machine has had no changes at all. And the os disk was moved to the backup machine before the psu was changed on the main machine.

You think the hardware id has mysteriously changed on both pcs ?

Did you changed the LAN or WiFi hardware?